FILTON CLOSING......CLOSED!

[DOC.400]

Greetings gents

Long time, no see!

Planning on flying in this Thursday 20 or Friday 21....

Anybody else going???

Caio
Mel

[piperarcher]

I flew in a few weeks ago as I wanted to get it in my logbook, and emulate the last ever landing of the Concorde. Sadly I couldnt get close to the Concorde there, but enjoyed landing there and having a bit of a look around and what is a very important historical airfield. Quite sad...

[Sir George Cayley]

What's the last day of Ops?

Sad sad sad.:{

SGC

[soaringhigh650]

What happens now? Everyone flies into the nearest airport? Or is the activity wiped from the area?

I heard a rumor that the nearest airport charges £250 for a PA28 landing. :E

[Jude098]

I flew into Filton earlier this afternoon and about half a dozen GA aircraft were there.
The weather was brilliant and not an ounce of breeze. Well not until the A380 took off and was swiftly followed by a replica/refurbished Spitfire who flew a tight circuit and then buzzed the runway before departing.
No landing fees were levied but PPR required.
Think quite a lot of people may be flying in on Friday 21st as its their last day. TAF's don't look too good though.

[Pace]

Jude

I hope if they are flying that they take a nice pile of sh+t and drop it over the short sighted idiots responsible for this.

When its covered by a housing estate what will they do? Honor its name by naming the streets Concorde way, Runway strip or Hanger lane?

I personally would want nothing to do with marking such an occasion! It is an act of greed and stupidity!

But all to their own.

Pace

[piperarcher]

I'm hoping the runway isnt demolished just for the some bland looking houses to be constructed.

I read that there is a new Aerospace centre being constructed on the Nothern side and restoration of some of the WW1 hangars and Concorde will finally be homed and exhibited.

News | Filton Airfield development | Filton Airfield development (http://www.filtonairfielddevelopment.co.uk/news/)

[Pace]

Wow cannot wait! That would have been an excellent idea as part of the modernization and expansion of Bristol Filton airport.

Couple of £Million FROM BAE as an empty gesture? As I said WOW!!!

Bit like stabbing and mortally wounding someone and offering them an aspirin to help with the pain as they die.

Pace

[piperarcher]

Bit like stabbing and mortally wounding someone and offering them an aspirin to help with the pain as they die.

I dont disagree with you, just saying that at least there will be something there. Its of great sadness to me, as Concorde is an absolute passion for me, and the closing down of the place where Concorde was partially developed, and the final landing place for the last ever Concorde flown is sad. Its just another blow really :(.

Do we know if Airbus / BAE / whoever, closed down the airfield because it operationally isnt viable, or are they tarmac'ing over everything just for the money and to build some houses? If they are leaving / restoring some of the WW1 hangars which I presume are to the North of the runway (I might be wrong), and presumably the huge Airbus operation to the South isnt going anywhere, then that leaves motsly just the runway area for development. If it was a case the runway would just become disused, but left there, then at least some of history will be there to see.

I once dream I was a mult-millionaire and had the ££ to by the land as keep it as is, but I'm not :-(

[Sir George Cayley]

They're apparently doing the same at Woodford creating an AVRO heritage site on the south side to include the resident Vulcan.

All heart ain't they:suspect:

SGC

[Jude098]

Pace I hadn't intended my post to come across as "marking such an occasion" as there are too many airfields closing for whatever reasons, more that it was an opportunity to go there before it does close.

It was my first, and ok my last, time landing at Filton and an amazing experience as only have half a dozen hours since my GST. Was concentrating so hard that I didn't even clock Concord on the left side of 27 when landing!

[supercarb]

@pipearcher, and anyone else concerned about the idiotic decision to close Filton, please visit the Save Filton Airfield website where you'll find much info in answer to your questions

Save Filton Airfield (http://www.savefiltonairfield.org/)

[ShyTorque]

Think quite a lot of people may be flying in on Friday 21st as its their last day.

Isn't the 21st the last day for all of us, in any case? :uhoh:

[Sir George Cayley]

Not for me, I've got my Poundland anti end of world tin foil hat:ok:

SGC

[AirportsEd]

Has the airport actually closed now?
If so, does anyone know who had the honour of making the last landing / departure?
Good luck to all at Filton.

[soaringhigh650]

Bristol International Airport breathes a sigh of relief as their attempt to eliminate GA from the area has been successfully accomplished. :D

[robin]

Sadly it wasn't us. :{

[AirportsEd]

Bristol Filton Airport Closes | Airports International | The Airport Industry online, the latest airport industry news (http://www.airportsinternational.com/2012/12/bristol-filton-airport-closes/)

[avturboy]

They're apparently doing the same at Woodford creating an AVRO heritage site on the south side to include the resident Vulcan.

All heart ain't they:suspect:

SGC

At Woodford they are not 'creating' the Avro heritage centre, that has been in existence for more years than most could remember ... it is a condition of future planning that a new home will be provided for the Avro heritage collection and this will include the remaining 'white' Vulcan as an exterior exhibit. The current approved plan for redevelopment at Woodford is for 300 homes, however there is a revised plan for more than 900 homes ... sadly which ever option we end up with the runway will be gone.

[avturboy]

A friend of mine managed the fuel facility of FZO, he sent out a message as he closed the office door for the last time at the close of business 21/12/2012 ... so sad!

[2close]

I heard a rumour that the nearest airport charges £250 for a PA28 landing.

Not quite £ 250.00 but not much change out of £ 150.00.

The airport 'approach fee' is about £ 50.00 and the mandatory handling charges of about £ 80.00 for parking over at the GA terminal, for the privilege of someone popping his head out of the office to point at a parking space that was blatantly obvious in the first place.

Note that the 'approach fee' is just that, a charge for the approach, regardless of whether you land, touch and go or go around. As for the handling fee, the GA terminal on the south-side is nowhere near the main terminal and there is no danger of you getting mixed with the big stuff - in my many landings at Bristol International over the past four years I have never actually been greeted by someone directing me to a parking space and have only witnessed one occasion. A major rip off by the operators, if you ask me.

As for Filton, having flown in and out of there many times over the last four years, what a great airport to operate from and a crying shame that it has to go.

What logic and foresight that was, to make Filton a GA/Business Airport, with its major city on the doorstep; two major motorways (M4 and M5) within 10 minutes via major arterial routes; a main railway line station offering nationwide connections five minutes away; a plethora of nearby hotels; a major hospital with first class A&E facilities only 10 minutes away; several large retail, commercial and business parks within spitting distance and the largest runway on the country, capable of taking ALL aircraft currently flying.

No, it made far more sense to make Lulsgate the international airport for the west country; out in the middle of nowhere surrounded by nothing other than one congested major road (A38); on the top of a hill which is regularly enshrouded in cloud such that the airport has to be CAT III; few facilities in the area and very little in the way of commercial businesses.

There must have been some sense in the decision..........or was it politics?

[piperarcher]

There must have been some sense in the decision..........or was it politics?

££££££££££

[Sir George Cayley]

Q) EGTT/QFAAW/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5131N00235W005
B) FROM: 12/12/22 00:00C) TO: PERM
E) AD CLOSED, AIP PAGES AD 2-EGTG-1-1 TO AD 2-EGTG-8-8 REFER, REMOVE
ALL TEXT.

End of an era in British Aviation

:(

SGC

[piperarcher]

That's sad to see :-(

[Bristol1965]

Pace:

Bit like stabbing and mortally wounding someone and offering them an aspirin to help with the pain as they die.


I couldn't agree with you any more and I don't think I could put it more accurately.

It is a disgrace what BAe have done to Bristol. A land that was paid for by tax payers which they inherited it for £1 (to make a transaction legal, they deny this)! Now they have apparently been offered £120 million for it.

That part of Bristol, is already congested, and they are going to build about 3500 houses, turning an already traffic congested area into a major traffic disaster.

For those of you who may be interested in knowing how short term gains was chosen over long term benefits, here how it was:

1) Bristol City Council had financial interest in southern parts of Lulsgate ground which is now used as carpark generating £1000s per day. Filton was private and any contributions would have gone to South Gloucestershire council.

2) South Gloucestershire council is purely interested in the income from rates, a few more millions easy money, they couldn't dream of this. What they don't seem to care, is turning an area into the biggest rough ground in the UK. Just as the council in Bristol has done in Southmead and Easton... (No dis-respect to anyone from these areas).

I just hope that, one day the law of the land in the UK, allows for prosecution of those ... planners and councillors who caused the downfall of Bristol.

I guess Bristol is now the only major City in UK that hasn't got a decent airfield nor a decent Flight training facility.

[robin]

I guess Bristol is now the only major City in UK that hasn't got a decent airfield nor a decent Flight training facility.

Or Plymouth perhaps?

[ShyTorque]

And Sheffield.

[bad bear]

guess Bristol is now the only major City in UK that hasn't got a decent airfield nor a decent Flight training facility

There is Nympsfield and Aston Down just up the road if you want real flying

bb

[funfly]

I saw the Bristol Brabazon take off on its first flight from Filton airfield, anyone else?

[pulse1]

I saw the Bristol Brabazon take off on its first flight from Filton airfield, anyone else?

Mrs p was there. She was about three years old and, as the great moment came and the Brabazon was starting to move, she distracted everyone around her when she spotted an interesting flower close by. Story of her life really!!!

Edited to say that my main memory is the only time I have been there. We were just flaring to touch down on 09 when ATC asked us to confirm that we were on the ground. Didn't realise until then that they couldn't see that end of the runway.

[ShyTorque]

Does this mean yet another LARS provider unit has gone for good (or are Bristol going to "officially" help out)? I know they do help out when able if you ask nicely.

So much for progress - we are losing LARS coverage in UK, little by little. No doubt the answer will be officially published at some stage soon.

[matspart3]

Bristol has taken over the LARS provision for the time being.

[mossie1960]

"Bristol has taken over the LARS provision for the time being."

Whats the story then Mr D ?

[soaringhigh650]

Not quite £ 250.00 but not much change out of £ 150.00.

How did you get that? This is what my friend got charged at Bristol:

1,157kg MTOW PA-28-181 Archer III parking overnight (Sat to Sun) with 3 passengers:

Passenger Load Supplement = 14.30 x 3 = £42.90
Airport Safety and Security Levy = 4.95 x 3 = £14.85
Security and Insurance Surcharge = 0.30 x 3 = £0.90
Police Services Agreement = 1.80 x 2 = £3.60
Runway fee = 29.50 x 2 = £59.00
ATC fee = 16.40 x 2 = £32.80
Parking fee = £17.00
Handling Fee = £66.12
Handling Weekend Surcharge = £25

Total ex.VAT = £262.17

Total inc. VAT = £314.60

Given the airport is only a Level 2 Co-ordinated Airport and there is no off-peak rate, I congratulate the Bristol government, the airport bosses, and the stupidity and short sightedness of the pilot community for all playing their part (or lack of) in leading the way to killing general aviation. :}

[MarcK]

So why do you all put up with that?

[toptobottom]

This (http://www.flyontrack.co.uk/scripts/MIAB/MIAB_ShowAsset.asp?a=-2147483447) guide on the flyontrack website (to be updated) might be useful.

[phiggsbroadband]

This (http://www.flyontrack.co.uk/scripts/MIAB/MIAB_ShowAsset.asp?a=-2147483447) guide on the flyontrack website (to be updated) might be useful.

Huuuummmm..... 33 pages of information; Would take the average pilot 30 minutes to read... Better start reading at least 60nm from Bristol.

[AN2 Driver]

It's frightening how many cities are disconnecting themselfs from GA by closing servicable airports. Horrible. It really appears that Europe seems to have the goal to eradicate GA for good.

Munich and Berlin come to mind with others trying hard to get rid of the vermin they think GA is.

Well, I've taken my consequences and avoid cities like that whenever I can, be it for business, pleasure or otherwise. I prefer spending my hard earned cash where I am welcome.

[Pace]

AN2

I Agree with you! Compared to America aviation is very badly treated in Europe especially GA with massive costs and restrictions.
It is disgusting how short sighted and stupid some of our decision makers are.
Bristol obviously only wants to be a second rate city which sadly is the way its going with a bunch of short sighted ignorant idiots running it

Pace

[soaringhigh650]

So why do you all put up with that?

It's quite simple. The GA pilot community just avoids the big cities generally and nobody kicks up a fuss about it. It's only when a few people start complaining that everyone in virtually every area of government, major airport, and commercial aviation looks at him like he is some idiot.

What the pilot doesn't know is that he is effectively killing his own network of airports to fly to and from...... :zzz:

Watch this space in 5 years. I'd be surprised if anything changes. Until the EASA accessible IR is rolled out, GA will remain confined to the remote farm fields.

[robin]

Not sure it is that simple and I don't think you can blame the GA owner/operators for this.

If a city-based airport starts hiking its charges to GA it is usually because they are deliberately trying to get rid of them. They want the high volume passenger traffic and the opportunity to fleece them at the airport shops and car parks.

As a GA owner operator what do I do, knowing that the airport operators will keep tightening the screws year on year until the last Jodel is off the airfield.

I do what most of us do, look to see what we can afford in our own budget and find somewhere suitable.

Then we find a downturn happens and passenger traffic falls. Airports like Plymouth or Filton shut as they are worth infinitely more as brownfield development sites than as an airport. GA can't bring in anything near enough to cover the costs.

It is left to a few visionary airfield operators (I have a few in mind) who keep the faith when they could easily take the money and run.

[waveskimmer]

2CLOSE

"There must have been some sense in the decision..........or was it politics?"

Brown envelopes spring to mind :E

[AN2 Driver]

soaringhigh650:

It's quite simple. The GA pilot community just avoids the big cities generally and nobody kicks up a fuss about it. It's only when a few people start complaining that everyone in virtually every area of government, major airport, and commercial aviation looks at him like he is some idiot.

I don't know where or what you are flying but that is not at all my observation. GA would love to fly to the big cities if there was infrastructure or at least conditions set on the larger airports to accomodate them or at the very least not scare them off.

The trouble is, that bean counters do not think in terms of public service and access but in terms of profit for their individual unit, the airport, and do not consider themselfs part of the larger picture, the community the airport serves. GA is individual transport, like motorcars. Yet, nobody would accept if e.g. toll motorways were restricted to lorries and busses, because one of those pais more than 20 personal vehicles. At airports, that is exactly the line of thinking, so airports rather get rid of GA planes altogether and have nothing than the sum of landing fees, restaurant revenue, e.t.c. a large mass of GA planes would generate if it was allowed to. Instead, they concentrate on their 5 Ryan Air airplanes per day and the wealthy biz jet owners.

What they forget is that the citiy they serve may be attractive to GA pilots and their passengers as well, that hotels, restaurants, pilots shops, maintenance facilities and others will also bring in some money and that a city can loose a lot of reputation if there is no GA facility around. Some of this to people who are significant to them. I know of several companies who today have moved headquarters away from cities who deny GA access to such who do, primarily companies who are active internationally and have branches in Eastern Europe or elsewhere they have to travel often but are off the airlines main routes.

They further forget that unless there are reasonably sized airports with night and IFR facilities available, it becomes more and more impossible to train the future pilots of those larger planes they crave. If I hear airports managers tell me "oh, we should export all pilot training to America or other places where there are better conditions" then they ignore the fact that by doing this we a) will loose a lot of pilots to those places, customers who will never come back if thy can help it, and b) we are just egoistically shoving a perceived problem to someone else. It is up to THEM to make the conditions better so they can get revenue from GA which in turn will have effects outside their own narrowminded views.

As long as there is a GAT for Biz Jets, it is an outrlight lie airport managers love to tell that they do not wish to keep security and parking spaces for the vermin called light GA because it is too expensive. They need the GAT and the security and other personel anyway for the biz jets they can not really send away without major protests by companies rich enough to afford one. If they move, hundreds of jobs go. But as long as a GAT has to be open anyhow, it can only win by accepting small to medium GA at good rates. GA therefore cross-sponsors the already there and used infrastructure. Likewise, GA does not generate significant more cost at airports which are open anyhow waiting for the next pax or cargo jet, it simply uses the facilities and pais for that too. Take away GA, they will not get a single more jet or income, the personel has to be there anyhow but sits ilde.

When I hear places like Munich or Berlin who deny GA access, I personally won't carry my business there, won't travel there even on airlines and totally loose interest. Now Bristol joins those ranks too and more and more will.

What the pilot doesn't know is that he is effectively killing his own network of airports to fly to and from......

That may be true for small airfields where some people already bitch at a £5 landing fee and go to the farm strip with a £2.50 one instead, it is not true for city airports. Most GA pilots who have some sort of reason left to themselfs will pefer a well equipped and well positioned airport to a grass field they can use only in summer and then only on a nice day. I would stop flying if I were denied access to an asphalt runway with night light and IFR, it simply does not make sense if for at least 40% of the time you want to use your airplane the airport is either closed due to a wet runway or otherwise unavailable. I don't care for airfields which are open weekends only, have no fuel, no customs, no night lights let alone IFR e.t.c if there is a well equipped and obviously underused concrete runway a few miles down the road which has all that.

Bristol, like other cities have now made the mistake of destroying a working and existing traffic infrastructure for low motives such as generating another housing estate which could have been built elsewhere, at the same time killing off jobs at the airport and presenting it's main airport with the question of how to deal with the now homeless GA planes which used to fly into Filton. Lulsgate will now also have to accomodate the traffic for the local industry which I understand includes BAE and others, plus they will have pressure to create lower tarifs for small GA which was nicely cared for at Filton.

The ideal model for most cities where the major airport has a size where they at least imagine GA becomes a problem at is for them to keep a smaller airport for Biz Jets and smaller GA. Paris has several (even though they just killed all the airports of entry) many other cities have them, Frankfurt, Hannover (where GA is welcome on the main airport with pleasure) and others more.

Not only has the destruction of Filton destroyed an aviation world heritage site, it has deprived the city of Bristol with a working infrastructure they will be very sorry to miss pretty soon when complaints come in from Lulsgate about the additional traffic they have to handle and the pressure from AOPA and others to let small GA operate at moderate rates.

Watch this space in 5 years. I'd be surprised if anything changes. Until the EASA accessible IR is rolled out, GA will remain confined to the remote farm fields.

And thereafter most IFR equipped and reasonably priced airports will be gone and the IR won't actually do anything, because small GA will be forced to fly Y or Z flight plans to farm strips and not few will be killed in the process. The EASA simplified IR will be worthless if there is nowhere to go.

It's not that bloody difficult, you know! Why can airports like Zagreb, Belgrade and most in that region accept small GA with a smile and low tarifs and we north of the Alps have such tremendous problems with that? Why can the French on most places? Maybe because people there have not forgotten what they are actually there for as a service provider. Maybe because people there are not as blasé as we are for loosing a few small businesses. They still regard us as people, not as vermin. Maybe that is why some of us might consider moving some of their business where it's welcome. Light airplane industry has boomed in the former east block countries for a good reason while former great producers have closed shop in so called G 8 nations. It won't make the "big picture guys" think but it should.