Whirlwind thread perhaps like the Wessex

[chopper2004]

I'm wondering if there should be a thread on here on par with the Wessex on here but for the Whirlwind, if it was much loved as the Wessex?

Cheers

[Fareastdriver]

The Whirlwing pilots are starting to die off.

Twin engined, double this, double that; the old Whirwind with one of everything managed to keep us upright just as well as the Wessex did. There was nothing like the trust you had in your Whirlwind in Borneo compared to the Wessex. Our Squadron in 1966 was mostly first tourists straight out of FTS, sent out over the jungle on their own and we did not have a single accident all year.


Two of the Navy's darlings found it a bit hard going so I was sent out to Sepulot in my Whirwind to do all their tasking for them.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/fareastdriver/1-1-2010_008.jpg

[Mushroom_2]

The Whirlwing pilots are starting to die off.

Blimey! I hope not. I flew them for 5 years and haven't retired from commercial flying.

[ShyTorque]

I hope I'm not starting to die off..... :{

Mind you, I only flew them after they were relegated to wearing training command colours and not long before they were finally consigned to the scrap heap.

A good old bus, underpowered but very forgiving for students, despite it's relatively large size making it an unusual choice for a training machine.

Computer out on a single turbine - certainly made one concentrate on the job in hand, especially during live wet winching at Valley during the SARTS course. :ooh:

[Lingo Dan]

Started on 103 Sqn at Tengah; last flew one at SARTU in 1981. I liked the Wessex a lot more!

[Rigga]

Ahhh, the wonderful Whirlwind!

Evidently, I was a late starter in 1975 as an RAF mechanic at Tern Hill & Shawbury. I enjoyed 4 years of them, including bits at the forerunner to Valley's SARTU, before going on my Fitters Course.

[76fan]

Wot? The Whirlwind underpowered? The Gnome engined Mk 9 or 10 was a dream compared to the earlier heavy Lycoming (corrected below!) piston engined version. I seem to remember reading here about Dave Baston's joy when the Culdrose SAR Mk 7s were replaced by the Mk 9s.

[CharlieOneSix]

...... was a dream compared to the earlier heavy Lycoming piston engined version.

What version was that then? The only ones I flew were the suck-squeeze-bang-blow versions - the HAR 3 with the Wright Cyclone R-1300 and the HAS 7 with the Leonides Major 155.

[76fan]

Sorry CharlieOneSix, old age you know ... I did mean to write "Leonides", fourteen cylinders wasn't it ?... a great old lady to fly as a trainer but I am glad I didn't have to fly it operationally.

[oldbeefer]

Still find it surprising that basic rotary students were allowed to do solo EOLs in the Whirlwind towards the end of their course. Probably more nerve wracking for the QHI in the tower watching than for the student! I did once have to call a halt before the stood had completed his 4 landings for fear the nose oleos would get broken off.

[CharlieOneSix]

76fan - same as you, only flew it as a training aircraft. I still remember how incredibly stupid I used to feel trying to start the Mk7 on solo details on cold February mornings. Having fired cartridge after cartridge and probably only got about 5 of the 14 cylinders to fire the instructor then sauntered over from the crewroom and got all of them to catch on his first attempt. Infuriating!

Edit - re EOL's, I seem to recall (correct me if I'm wrong please, it's a long time ago) that on the Mk3 the only way you could do a practice EOL was to shut the engine off completely otherwise even with the throttle completely closed it would power up when you raised the collective. As a basic stood a Mk3 EOL was obviously only done with a QHI, never solo!

[oldbeefer]

I only flew the turbine Mk10 at Ternhill - the engine was at idle for the EOL, and there was no link to the collective in that version.

[Nigel Osborn]

C16
You're right the Mk 3 had to shut the engine down for eols unlike the Mk 7. In 705 students never did solo eols in any helicopter in my time.

I had great fun flying the Mk 7 in Borneo & once you were used to the cartridge starter, it was no problem. Even doing anti sub work at Portland was fun & had enough power. Strangely in Borneo we could generally carry more pax than the more powerful Mk 10 but look who was flying those!:ok:

In 250 hours the dear old 7 never let me down but of course no comparison to the Wessex 5.

I'm sure David ( not Dave!) BastOn will make some comments when he reads this!!

[ShyTorque]

I only flew the turbine Mk10 at Ternhill - the engine was at idle for the EOL, and there was no link to the collective in that version

Yes, IIRC, the "flight idle stop" switch was first moved to the "ground" position. When the throttle was closed, the engine ran right down to ground idle and you were committed to land because it was unlikely the computer could accelerate the engine again without causing compressor stall if a go-around was attempted. If you advanced the throttle quickly with the computer engaged, it would lock up (and set off a lorry type warning horn behind you), to prevent engine damage.

However, one certain course colleague of mine flew with a certain French exchange QHI who didn't like flying "fuel computer in", allegedly because of his previous background flying early Allouettes, which didn't have one. Much of his hard working studes' flying was done in manual throttle (not the normal way on the RAF course).

On the day in question, my colleague was working hard as usual, flying in manual throttle. He was then directed to carry out an EOL at Tern Hill, which was entered without putting the computer back in (again not the normal thing to do).

After landing, and a quick debrief, the stude was told to get airborne and do another EOL. The engine was still in manual at ground idle (not the normal configuration). A little confused by now, he opened the throttle which instantly surged the engine, causing a ten foot long flame to exit the exhaust. Engine change time!

That occurred just before lunch. By mid afternoon the same day we were directed to sign as acknowledgement of a new flying order, which prohibited EOLs in manual throttle.....

[CharlieOneSix]

The Whirlwind HAS Mk. 7

(To the tune of Men of Harlech)

Every Ocean on this plannit
Has a WHIRLWIND in it,
Only takes just half a minnit,
In we go again.


We dunked our balls in ocean water,
ALVIS thought we didn’t oughter
So they made the engines falter,
In we go again.


Curses on this aircraft
The makers they were so daft,
Hover trials
For hours and hours,
But still the engine faltered.
Engine ancient,
So outdated,
Round the wrong way it rotated
Oil feeds they were quite negated
Let us try again.


At times we floated around and wondered,
Who the bloody hell had blundered
Soaking wet we cursed and chundered,
Here we ditch again.
Sitting in our dinghies retching
From here the Planeguard looks quite fetching,
Now he’s ditched, it must be cetching.
Here we go again.


Boost is slowly dropping,
Clammy brow needs mopping,
In we go,
And head to toe
The water’s all round us slopping.
Clothes are dripping,
Sharks are sniffing,
In my dinghy, trousers whiffing,
Give me back my dear old GANNET
To fly me safe again.

[js0987]

Never flew the Whirlwind but have fond memories of "borrowing" the back seat cushion of a Whirlwind in for maintenance. They made great seat cushions for the 212.

[CharlieOneSix]

The Whirlwind HAS Mk. 7
(The A25 version – sung to the melody of Wilkins and his Dinah)

We flew the Mk.7, a chopper brand new,
It floated much better than it ever flew,
And it floated very badly and quickly did sink
When the engine packed up and you dropped in the drink.

Chorus:
Thank the Lord I’m alive
But I’ve still got to fill out my A25.

Westlands said the Mk.7 was the best that they had,
A right load of bollocks it was all rather sad,
The drawback it had as a flying machine.
Was it thought it was a really good submarine.

Chorus:

If you fly the Mk.7 one thing you don’t do,
Is hover o’er water or you’re in the poo,
The best cure for this problem that we’ve ever tried
Is only to hover at very low tide.

Chorus:

A look at the programme could make you feel blue
If you were down to fly Three Zero Two,
This bright shiny airplane so neat and so trim
Just wanted to go for a refreshing swim.

Chorus:

Now just off Gibraltar young Frank Simpkin’s crew
Prepared to go dunking the ball, just as you do.
When the throttle jammed up, and the stick went all slack,
“Hey, it’s bloody wet in here!” cried a voice from the back.

Chorus:

And then to old Singapore we drew near,
Chunky Allen thought he had nothing to fear,
But Three Zero Two thought in that tropical heat
The crew could just do with a’ paddling their feet.

Chorus:

And when we got airborne we couldn’t fly for long
With too much Avgas on things quickly went wrong
With the wind down the flight deck a take-off’s no bother
But when dunking our balls, well we just couldn’t hover.

Chorus:

The problem with so little fuel in the tank
Was that the fuel gauges were also damned dank.
As 824 Squadron found to their cost
The engine’d go quiet and the chopper was lost.

Chorus:

With much modification the engine was cursed
But it didn’t get better it only got worse.
With blue, red and yellow spots the engine was seen,
To show just how far modified it had been.

Chorus:

And so hover trials we did day after day,
It got pretty boring is the best I can say,
But sixty percent of Mark Seven’s were lost
To the bottom of the sea at extremely great cost.

Chorus:

The end of this story of things that have been
They retired what was left of this sad old machine.
And so came in the new Wessex Mark One
And flying a chopper once more became fun.

Chorus:

Thank the Lord I’ve retired
And I don’t have to fill in an A25.

[TipCap]

Flew the RN Mk 3's and Mk 7's then latterly the Ws55s3 (Gnome 1000) on floats

but that was a long time ago...........

TC

[rotorfossil]

I flew Whirlwinds for 48 years, 1960-2008, 10's in the RAF, Srs 3 with Bristows and ex military 7, 10's and 12 in civilian hands. l would be flying the last one still but it is mothballed for financial reasons. A friendly old beast and the easiest engine-offer on the planet. However they were also frustrating to fly operationally being burdened with massive amounts of service gear and mods that limited payload to an embarrassing degree on occasions.
The 7's Leonides Major engine was never originally designed to run continuously at 2800-2900 revs and the max boost required in the hover to the detriment of its reliability. The Gnome engine was a bit too delicate for the rough and tumble of sand, salt and FOD that went up the intake, causing the well known compressor stalls (I had two). The engine computor signalling circuits suffered from damp and corrosion that mucked up the signals, all leading to poor serviceability. The 9's, 10's and 12's would have been more capable if Westlands hadn't been constrained to use the existing gearbox and driveline for cost reasons and all the Westland models were about 400 lb heavier than the original Sikorsky S55's when they redesigned them. The cockpit seats were an ergonomic disaster and I still have the back pain to remind me, but I would get back in and fly one like a shot given the opportunity. So much for nostalgia

[Fareastdriver]

payload to an embarrassing degree on occasions.

Nothing has changed. Five years ago I listened to a Sikorsky S76A+ crew explaining why they could only take 4 (????) passengers 95 miles back to Karratha.

[Dave B]

http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab221/MountKenya/bth_Jambocopy.jpg

225 Sqn. Whirlwind operating out of Simangang Sarawack, in 1965. Hill post Jambu, in support of the New Zealand regiment.

[bast0n]

Great to see this thread and to hear from others of their experiences good and bad of the Whirlwinds various.

I don't think that the Whirlwind will ever engender the affection that the Wessex managed to do - it was just not such a nice and friendly beast.

Having to go out every so often in all weathers to start the engine of the SAR 7 to keep the oil temperature up so that we could engage if there was a scramble was frankly boring! The lack of power in the 7 when full of SAR gear and a diver and crewman was quite interesting on a warm calm day over a yacht. Ones nether regions clasping the buttocks together as you made the irreversible decision to continue the approach..................usually however SAR callouts were in poor weather with plenty of wind so no problem, apart from if the call was upwind of your base it took forever to get there.

EOLs were so simple - especially in the 9 - even with the full SAR fit on board. I used to EOL onto the spot in dispersal and the sight of the marshaller starting to retreat always amused us! Bent the hockey stick one day as the engineers had set the auto rrpm too low and I ran out of ideas a bit late in the day:=

As others have said, the 9s and 10s were a delight. Having taken nearly a ton of 750hp Leonides out and popped in 328lbs of Gnome with 1200hp and making the limit one could pull to a red mark on the fuel flow guage made for effortless flying, especially if one did not look at the fuel flow guage too often.

Fun it definitely was, even hot and high in the Fareast, but for me the Wessex holds my undying affection for it's ability to look after you when things went pearshaped and being such FUN to fly.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll301/tallbronzedgod/Photoscan3460.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll301/tallbronzedgod/Photoscan3508-1.jpg

[Snarlie]

I was very sad to see the last airworthy Mk 7 has been mothballed, I was hoping to track you down in bonny Scotland and fix a nostalgic charter for my 60th, just to celebrate old times. Looks like I will have to settle for a Hiller 12E but I believe they are fairly rare now in UK.

[heli1]

...And you must all have heard the story of the Mk.7 that ditched off Portland one day and how they sent down a diver when considering salvage.
Apparently he came back to the surface and asked " Which one ? "
Such was the reliability of the early Leonides in the hover at full power !

[Dave B]

http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab221/MountKenya/bth_Heli120001JPG.jpg

Further picture of 225 Sqd. with the New Zealanders

[CharlieOneSix]

Those flying RN Whirlwinds (and Wessex) will remember the superb cartoons of Ron Gent in which he made both types come to life. He has updated the black and white line drawings of that era with colour versions and at my request has kindly sent me a couple to include here - the second in due course as I'm not sure how the 850 pixel width limit will affect clarity.

http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l543/CharlieOneSix/We-remember.jpg

[parabellum]

Only ever flew the WS55 Series 3 civil version with the Gnome, on floats. Based in Abu Dhabi it was a bit of a struggle to get eight or nine big Americans off the ground sometimes in summer! We flew with the fuel computer out most of the time, there had been a few 'freezes' followed by at least two 'mis-matches' when selecting manual, possibly a rogue batch or just a transient fault. These days computers are so much more reliable!:)

Gave me high tone deafness too, not the engine but the gear box!

[Nigel Osborn]

C16

Where's Ron these days? He was supposed to come back to Oz after we fareweled him many moons ago!:ok:

I think the 7 may have had more clutch/freewheel problems than engine even when our CO topped up with avtur! In my time in 847 & 848, I don't think any one had a failure but there was one in 705 into Falmouth harbour while winch training; no injuries.

[CharlieOneSix]

Nigel - PM sent.

[Cornish Jack]

Aaaaahhhhh Whirlwind ... just like DeHavilland - but better!! Still cannot understand the apparent preference for the Wessex - nice old lump but for responsiveness, the Whirly every time!!
Re. the 10 computer out, we had a Master Pilot come through Valley on the 10 who had previously done a tour on the piston version. Computer in, he was all over the place, switch to computer out and you could put him on a sixpence:ok:
Nearly nine years with the 10 and wouldn't have missed it for anything.:D
Some memories ...http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/CornishJack/VentnorCval.jpghttp://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/CornishJack/22CfltValley.jpghttp://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/CornishJack/CFSHValley.jpg

[chopper2004]

Happy New Year and very much appreciated for all the contributions to this thread I started,

I had read somewhere, there were plans to arm the RAF SRT Force Whirlwinds with SS-11 missiles and there were trials. But because of decisions at the time in the late 50s early 60s, any arming of the RAF SRT Helicopters with guided munitons didnt take off so to speak. There were various case studies and visits to French Armee de L'air /ALAT/Aeronavale units in Algeria to see how they operated gunships.

Does anyone have any pics of RAF Whirlwind with A/SS-11?

Cheers

[pedroalpha]

My first two RAF tours were on Whirlwind 10s in the SAR role. The first tour was at Akrotiri and one of our Cyprus Mk 10s is now in the RAF Museum at Hendon!
Seem to remember that the pilots flew wearing a backpack dinghy; I have a photo somewhere that I will post if it turns up. In my day RAF SAR crews had to complete 12 eols each month with the crew on board. The Whirlwind never let me down and I loved it - even the 'floppy' cyclic!!

[TipCap]

A few civvi ones

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv287/kernow_lad/lavanws55s31970.jpg

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv287/kernow_lad/s55Tarfaya69a-1.jpg

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv287/kernow_lad/S55HillerTarfaya69a.jpg

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv287/kernow_lad/hargreaves.jpg

[Oldlae]

The last Mk 12, now in WSM Museum, and its engine.
http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag67/fchammings2/ww12eng_zpse1b0f33b.jpg

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag67/fchammings2/ww12mgb_zpsee613f23.jpg

[Oldlae]

Demobbed, the last Mk 10 from 32 Sqdn, Northolt leaving on permit to fly.

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag67/fchammings2/ww10northolt_zps89e5e955.jpg


Painted in camo now in the States.

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag67/fchammings2/ww10paint_zps841f60f4.jpg


Instrument panel.


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag67/fchammings2/ww10inst_zpsdfc5e0a2.jpg

[Oldlae]

WS55 Series 3 PK-HBM (VR-BDL) on oil rig east of Borneo 1970, based on Masalembo (between Borneo and Java).

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp52/fchammings/pkhbm-1.jpg

[John Eacott]

My only exposure was the HAS7 during 706NAS training. As a lowly young Mid it was a daunting climb up into the cockpit, especially with M'larky Jim (Dave Mallock) in the LH seat as my instructor! A few recollections: M'larky Jim demonstrating an engine off at Predannack and bursting a tyre followed by a return to Culdrose and a hover wheel change. Very impressive to a young sprog!

Starting the Alvis Leonides and hearing each cylinder join in the chorus. George Bedford having an engine failure (as a student on my course) and everyone else thinking the same: at least it wasn't me!

Then there was the matter of power management via a very rudimentary correlated throttle. Solo Sproule net sortie with CPO Paddy Mooney in the back with his strong Irish accent exhorting me to 'go up, sir, me bloody feet are getting wet'. I didn't think I was really that low, but dating his daughter didn't put me too high on his student rating :p

A few old photos:

The best way to fly a Whirlie 7, slung under a Sea King (no idea why we didn't put the wheels down, don't ask) :ok:

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/pprune/Whirlwind%20lift.jpg

706NAS dispersal:

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/pprune/Whirlwind%2062%20small.jpg

A few of a Bristow Whirlwind when I was flying an Alouette out of Warri, 1976:

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/pprune/Bristow%20Whirlwind%2001.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/pprune/Bristow%20Whirlwind%2004.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/pprune/Bristow%20Whirlwind%2003.jpg

[ShyTorque]

A landaway back to my school circa June 1979:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/shytorque/WhirlwindHelicopterLandaway1979_zps60ce1cb3.jpg

[Saint Jack]

TipCap: Ref the first photo in Post #33, is that location Kharg Island?

[whirlwind]

Aaaaahhhhh Whirlwind ... just like DeHavilland Cornish Jack you're absolutely right, although I'm not so sure about 'only better'. I chose my moniker because my first 2 tours were on yellow WWs. Lovely aeroplane; I have to say that I find my de Havilland 87b just as much fun these days, although I haven't yet done my 12 EOLs in her yet :ok:

[Fareastdriver]

Whilst operating at Grik on 110 Sqn in Northen Malaya in 1970 Roger Taite was training a new pilot when he had an engine rundown on finals. He managed to stretch the auto to get it over the trees and on to the sports field. As I was the squadron maintenance pilot I sent them back to Singapore with my aircraft and stayed behind to do the engine change.
Chief Tech Brooker came up with the engine and the Rolls Royce rep. We all looked at the blue turbine blades and decided that we would run it just to see what had happened to a cooked engine. It started normally and then came the stage where we needed to restrain the aircraft. We were in the Gurkha camp so there was no shortage of mobile weights.

We managed to get it to droop at top red line at about a two foot hover.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/fareastdriver/WhirlwindTiedown.jpg

I claim the record for the getting the most number of persons airborne in a Whirlwind.

[Pofman]

Far East.
I guess you win. We always put 17 into the back of the WW dunker at HMS Vernon for the final run in the early 60s. If you were near an exit and slow leaving then fists and boots were always flying:ugh:

[Oldlae]

I understand that a book called Borneo Boys by Roger Annett covers some of the Whirlwind operations during the confrontation.

[Dynamic Roller]

Ran across this on YT. Good quality and some interesting parts (e.g. belly drain sumping :)).
i8E285FJenA

[Dave B]

Just finished reading Borneo Boys, great read for anyone who was involved, brought back some good memories, and some not so good ones.

ISBN 978 1 78159 0102

I got mine from Amazon UK

[Oldsarbouy]

Happy days at Chivenor circa 1973.

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss297/oldsarbouy/wwindsaunton.jpg

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss297/oldsarbouy/whirlwind10.jpg

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss297/oldsarbouy/wwindrocks.jpg

[Lingo Dan]

Great photos!

[Oldsarbouy]

Practising for a competition
http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss297/oldsarbouy/img039.jpg


30' hover, loose cable in cabin, 28lb lead weight, con to the overhead, release weight, recover stunned salmon, have excellent dinner.

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss297/oldsarbouy/wwindsalmonpix.jpg?t=1365155138