View Full Version : Opening cabin door with engine running
EK380
23rd Oct 2012, 09:32
Scenario: During pushback cabin crew tells you they can not arm 1 slide. Can you legally open the door to check for a possible reason (e.g. ice/snow...) of the door problem with an engine running on the opposite side? Needless to say I would first make sure that the engine(s) on the side of the door to be opened are shut down.
Company rules do not forbid it however I'm interested if there would be any legal text (JAROPS or FAR AIMS).
gusting_45
23rd Oct 2012, 16:21
Why would you start the push if you didn't already have the doors armed?
EK380
23rd Oct 2012, 16:25
Because the need to arm the doors is only once the engines are started...
Order to rm doors is given when the push is started in the company I work for. It can take a while before one of your 24 cabin crew will get back to you with the bad news that one of the 16 slides does not arm.
overstress
23rd Oct 2012, 16:27
Why can't you start pushback with the doors not armed? Must have done it 000s of times!
EK380
23rd Oct 2012, 16:32
No, it is not a 737 I'm talking about.
Because the gates might be in the way maybe?
FYI, these slides come out the length of a 737 wingspan.
FlightPathOBN
23rd Oct 2012, 20:33
The question is about opening the door, not arming, after pushback....
Capn Bloggs
24th Oct 2012, 02:15
Why can't you start pushback with the doors not armed? Must have done it 000s of times!
Check your flight manual. :ok:
Check Airman
24th Oct 2012, 04:07
FWIW, at my shop (US regional), we routinely open the door with the #2 engine running when we arrive. In fact, it's pretty rare for both engines to be shut down before the door opens.
Can you legally open the door to check for a possible reason (e.g. ice/snow...) of the door problem with an engine running on the opposite side?
Checked by whom? Some airline policies forbid you to open a door without steps or an aerobridge at the door unless the person opening the door has an approved safety harness :hmm:
AtoBsafely
24th Oct 2012, 05:59
Who is responsible if someone falls out?
Agaricus bisporus
24th Oct 2012, 08:49
Who is responsible if someone falls out?
er...the idiot who fell out of course. Who the **** else????
Jesus, what a mad world we live in if people feel the need to ask a question like that> :|
Old Fella
24th Oct 2012, 11:43
I recall opening the L5 and dispatching a "suspect" item found during taxi. It was a radio tape player of similar design to the one which brought down PanAm over Lockerbie. This was within a year of that tragic event and we did not want a similar fate to overtake us.
lomapaseo
24th Oct 2012, 13:00
I take it that after days since the openeing post, that there is no specific regulation against opening a door ( passenger entry door ?) with engines running.
It seems that this is covered under the operators SOPs and obviously can be over-ridden by the Captain if necessary?
EK380
24th Oct 2012, 13:04
Lomapaseo, yes I guess so as well... Amazing how some people have such a hard time sticking to the question asked, isn't it!
Thanks anyway to the ones that tried...
Dusthog
13th Nov 2012, 22:10
Check FCOM PER-LOD-FUL. It describes REFUELING WITH ONE ENGINE RUNNING and includes disembarking of pax with one engine running.
Cheers
TURIN
13th Nov 2012, 23:00
Quote:
Who is responsible if someone falls out?
er...the idiot who fell out of course. Who the **** else????
Jesus, what a mad world we live in if people feel the need to ask a question like that> :|
Perhaps one where a set of steps are pulled from the a/c side just as the stewardess is closing the door. She had one foot on the steps and fell through the gap between steps and a/c.
It happens. No need for the rant. :(
JammedStab
14th Nov 2012, 11:57
Scenario: During pushback cabin crew tells you they can not arm 1 slide. Can you legally open the door to check for a possible reason (e.g. ice/snow...) of the door problem with an engine running on the opposite side? Needless to say I would first make sure that the engine(s) on the side of the door to be opened are shut down.
Company rules do not forbid it however I'm interested if there would be any legal text (JAROPS or FAR AIMS).
Never seen a reg forbidding it. We used to start up the starboard engine all the time with the door and stair on the port side extended in the old HS748 in order to get hydraulic pressure for automatic retraction.
You can see it at the beginning of this youtube video.
Air North HS748 engine start and take-off Vancouver JUL 4/10 - YouTube
grounded27
14th Nov 2012, 21:29
Scenario: During pushback cabin crew tells you they can not arm 1 slide. Can you legally open the door to check for a possible reason (e.g. ice/snow...) of the door problem with an engine running on the opposite side? Needless to say I would first make sure that the engine(s) on the side of the door to be opened are shut down.
Company rules do not forbid it however I'm interested if there would be any legal text (JAROPS or FAR AIMS).
I am thinking of a larger problem here in your thought process.If you find the door is not fully closed and the slide will not arm, no engine running on the side you are having the problem with , sure sort it out. If the door appears to be fully closed and the slide will not arm, best bring her back to the gate and let your AMT/LAME have a look. It is CC not you at the door and you are unsure, back to the gate.
Capn Bloggs
14th Nov 2012, 22:14
Park the brakes and send the FO out to have a look. They will usually be more tech-savvy than the FAs.
gorter
14th Nov 2012, 23:23
Park the brakes and send the FO out to have a look. They will usually be more tech-savvy than the FAs.
You say that. The FA's open/close , arm/disarm the doors day in day out. I arm/disarm the doors once every three years on a line check.
grounded27
15th Nov 2012, 15:04
You say that. The FA's open/close , arm/disarm the doors day in day out. I arm/disarm the doors once every three years on a line check.
Someone may know how to microwave their breakfast every day but not have a frikin clue what to do when it pops a c/b. Flight crew has the responsibility of making the call, so yes send Jr. back to have a look. If the F/O is unsure BACK TO THE GATE!
787Heaven
15th Nov 2012, 15:18
Hmmm.... Surely your airline has protocol for these situations? Mine does. Don't most moderns airliners have indicators inte flight deck anyway if all doors are armed or not?
FullWings
15th Nov 2012, 17:51
Scenario: During pushback cabin crew tells you they can not arm 1 slide.
Have a look at the MEL? It will probably allow dispatch with one (or maybe more, depending on type) door u/s with no slide, possibly with some restrictions on how many pax are seated where. If the engineering action required is to write "door 1L stuck in manual" in the tech. log, then I'd be tempted to brief the CC/pax not to use 1L in an evacuation then carry on...
I've opened a door (A330) and had a door opened (B744) several times after push back, its always been FOD in the girt bar brackets preventing the respective slide being armed. I've even got photos in my phone to show the F/O where and what to look for, as said its not something we do regularly.
Neupielot
17th Nov 2012, 02:11
There will always be some different opinions about this.
I'm guessing you just have to weigh the pros / cons.
One would be tempted to just have someone open the door and have a look for foreign object. Saves the "hassle" of request to return and have the engineer sign it off for a "simple" foreign object found under seal.
The chances of someone actually fall off while the parked aircraft door is being opened (plz no crazy stunts like opening a door while u still being pushed) is very remote but can't be totally disregarded. Not to mention it might not go down too well with the reporters (if any are onboard).
At the end of the day, that's why they pay captain a huge salary to make the calls. It's not just "my radios, read ecam" everytime.