Cumbernauld tower dummy spit

[piperboy84]

Do any of the locals know what the shouting match on the radio was all about yesterday about 4pm at Cumbernauld. The tower was unmanned, but right after I took off I heard the guy taking off behind me getting a bollocking from what I presume was the newly staffed tower. It sounded like he thought that someone (perhaps me) had taken off from the wrong runway. I had to change freq mid bollocking for my Edinburgh transition. Has anyone got any idea what was wrong and who the alleged offender was ?

P.S. I'm only interested if its me, don't want to know about it if it was someone else.

[dont overfil]

There has been some pretty unprofessional stuff going on there for some time. I even heard Scottish info doing their job for them on Tues as neither the phone nor the radio was being answered.

I have no wish to return.

D.O.

[ShyTorque]

Why not get in touch with Cumbernauld and ask? :confused:

[piperboy84]

Why not get in touch with Cumbernauld and ask

Several reasons really, they are as follows,
My whole thing, whether it be flying or otherwise is all about learning and not to sound harsh but based on the nature and tone of transmission I heard, I doubt there is much I could learn from the person doing the talking yesterday. The reasons I put the question up here is I have a hunch the replies my post will elicit will be a source for real learning for myself and others in general and the guy that was taking off behind me in particular, who I suspect was a student and am pretty sure from the part of the RT calls that I heard would come away with nothing of value from the exchange in question.
From the limited part of the call I heard the situation was basically the tower became active as I was about 1 mile out on upwind and the guy behind was probably just at wheels up from the same runway, the initial transmission was an abrupt and accusatory in nature about the tower now being active and that someone was using the wrong runway (how someone coming on duty can determine which is the “correct” runway for a recently departed flight is beyond me to be honest, as I, as the pilot about to depart from what was then an un-towered field am the sole decision maker as to which runway is the “correct” one based on the conditions I observe). The guy behind me responded rather meekly that he was “just following the tail dragger” to which another burst of nonsense then followed. I could not help but think on the flight home that there was probably a more appropriate time than at rotation to discuss, with what I again assume was a student, the merits of what had rightly or wrongly just happened, and certainly not conveyed in the manner it was.

[lenhamlad]

Piperboy

who I suspect was a student

My understanding was that students going solo were to prefix their callsigns with the word "student". And if it was a student with an instructor I would have expected the instructor to take the tower to task if needed. All round it does not seem good comms from the tower.

[piperboy84]

He may not have been a student but I am just assuming he was because he was very informative on the radio as to his start-up taxi and other activities prior to taking the active which I thought was pretty impressive and lot more info than you generally would expect to hear from other old bastards like myself.

[riverrock83]

I've heard of another incident there where another student (not me) was given a bollocking a while ago on a land away to Cumbernauld after some confusion about ordering in the circuit.
I heard it second or third hand but I think he did a much tighter circuit than one of the locals and ended up in front of them without seeing the other plane. Was it his fault - probably but there are ways and means, and no harm was done.

He was pretty cut up about it (he might have got a lift back rather than flying back to our club) and it knocked back his training quite a bit.

IMHO the radio is never the right place to give out a bollocking (why not just ask the pilot to contact / phone them back when they land?). I suggest it is actively dangerous to stress the pilot (esp if they area student), as if they focus on that issue then they wont be concentrating on the flying.

[riverrock83]

As to runway direction - was it indicated in the signals square? The signal square is hard to see from the ground however!

[maxred]

CBN has had a history of radio indiscretions, and I have not been in for a while, however, my perception on overflying was that they appeared to have sorted this out. Maybe not.

They are not alone in this issue. Friend got radio comments after departing Fife, on the wrong runway, according to the air ground person.

Pilots discretion me thinks was the reply. By the way, there was no known traffic to affect.

[dont overfil]

As to runway direction - was it indicated in the signals square? The signal square is hard to see from the ground however!

I hear where you are coming from but irrespective of what the signals square says or what AG radio says it is the pilots decision.

The signal square, if there is one, is meant to be read from the air.

Maxred. A formal complaint has recently been made to GC.

D.O.

[piperboy84]

As to runway direction - was it indicated in the signals square? The signal square is hard to see from the ground however!

I arrived about an hour before and runway 8 was in use with traffic in the pattern, the wind was switching between favouring 8 and dead calm, during my stay, 8 was being used by other traffic. When i went depart it was again switching between a slight wind favouring 8 to dead calm. Prior to taking off I had to wait on a landing aircraft who was also using 8 .Myself and the guy behind me used 8 for take off which the wind favoured. I am making an assumption here but I would guess that between the time of my take off and the tower been manned that the sock may may have moved from total calm/favouring 8 to slight favour 26 which is why the wobbler was thrown.

To be honest even if the wind had slightly favoured 26 and that was the pattern being flown (which is wasn't) I would still have used 8 (waiting for the pattern to clear of course) due to the low sun basically blinding my vision to the west, which was far more an important factor than the wind on the day,

[maxred]

Maxred. A formal complaint has recently been made to GC.

Added to the 'in tray'.

[Bigears]

I believe that there is one 'rotten apple' amongst the A/G persons at Cumbernauld. Pity that the others are being tainted with the same brush. After I flew through the ATZ recently (after contacting them first on the radio), I got a cheery 'thanks for the call'.

[piperboy84]

I believe that there is one 'rotten apple' amongst the A/G persons at Cumbernauld. Pity that the others are being tainted with the same brush. After I flew through the ATZ recently (after contacting them first on the radio), I got a cheery 'thanks for the call

I agree , this was my first time visiting the field, nice runway, had a excellent lunch in fine facilities, even had a helpful FI type offer me some really useful info about EDI transition routes and procedures for my departure which was greatly appreciated. The place had really nice atmosphere and people, I would in no way let the nutty stuff from the tower on departure taint what was otherwise an excellent experience and I look forward to a return visit.

[maxred]

And we all know who the rotten apple is. Shame really, because he is actually a nice guy, although others who have crossed his path may disagree.

Sometimes individuals take it, all way too serious, they need to reflect that...

In the end, nothing really matters, does it?

CBN is a great airfield, ideally situated and a lot of people working hard to keep it that way. I spent many superb hours there, and would always recommend it to people flying to either Glasgow or Edinburgh.

[chevvron]

Obviously the guy from Elstree has moved north (or could it be the one who used to be at Headcorn?)
Personally I would NEVER admonish someone who is in the air, it might distract them from some vital action, I would ALWAYS wait until they land.

[atceng]

Reminds me of returning to EGPG after a confusing navex, contacting the tower but forgetting to ask for joining info.

'Welcome back G-xxxx'
'Which runway is in use'
'it's outwith my remit to specify the runway'
'give me a clue ,which way is the windsock pointing?'
'Downwards'

T'was just such a day yesterday,but the same guy wasn't in the tower.

atceng

[fisbangwollop]

I even heard Scottish info doing their job for them on Tues as neither the phone nor the radio was being answered.


I was not really doing their job,only that an aircraft I had been working inbound to Cumbernauld returned to my frequency advising he could not get a response from Cumbernauld. I phoned the airfield and was advised by someone that the radio was unmanned but was given the runway in use and told the circuit was empty..This I then passed onto the aircraft and told him just to make blind calls on Cumbernauld frequency.

To be honest here at Scottish Info we have a very good working relationship with all the clubs and airground staff at Cumbernauld so cannot say more than that. I do know however at times the tower is unmanned especially if an aircraft requires fuel etc and I guess at times like that you just need to make blind calls.:cool::cool::cool:

[reportyourlevel]

There are some sky gods left in ATS, unfortunately. It is not for ATC/FIS/AG to tell anyone off: we are here to provide you a service and to help you out. No one needs a bollocking, in flight or otherwise, from some jumped up so-and-so in the tower. Aside from being highly unprofessional, it is also dangerous for various reasons as stated above. I've no problem with (genuinely) friendly advice but if you get a "bollocking" over the RTF then I think you're within your rights to complain to the unit management and send an MOR. Most of the times I've seen ATCOs admonish people in flight it is trying to cover up their own mistakes, which is worth remembering.

[maxred]

There is another more recent issue with which CBN needs to take notice. It is now right in the middle of a lot of controlled airspace. Scottish TMA, Edinburgh, and closest of all, Glasgow. It is now a busier corridor, due to a lot of transit aircraft from Strathaven moving North, and from North bound, who do not wish a zone transit, heading South. If departing West, you are almost instantly hitting the East boundry of GLA zone, therefore any nonsense, or confusion from some clown in the tower, is not beneficial for a pilot, particularly trainee pilots, and there are three training schools at CBN. Or were....

Both GLA, and EDI, ask you to contact CBN, if moving close or over the active, therefore the requirement for some sort of professionalism, is paramount. As I stated earlier, my recent flyovers, have been met with courtesy and no issue, that said what else would one expect?????

Time to nip it in the bud:uhoh: