Att: experienced B1900D pilots - perfecting the landing

[B19hundred]

Hey all,

Recently I made the transition from piston aircraft to turboprop. I have experience flying navajo's and 206's in "bush" type settings, and of course have had some pretty hilarious landings during my career thus far. More often than not, however, I prided myself at being able to obtain smooth touchdowns at best of times - due not to great skill mind you, but more of just thousands of hours on just two birds, and - Luck.

Humility is key for this profession, and I've swallowed enough pies for this lot. In any case, like most, I always seek to perfect or better understand the machine I'm handling, so I'm seeking the advice of more experienced B1900d pilots.

Specifically,
Is there any insider tip on how to have a really smooth touchdown?

Currently, I work the prescribed tips of Vref @ 50' (plus and gust factors), and throttle's slowly to idle when in the flare. All looks good until touchdown, which is rather firm. No bounce mind you, but no "claps" from the seals in the back either.

Any tips?

Thanks in advance.:ok:

[Cardinal]

I've seen many pilots reluctant to use sufficient back pressure. Fingertips all day long, but the amount of elevator force required to properly flare the Beech is quite large. If you're going for grease...run 3 or 4 seconds of nose up trim as you close the power levers. Maybe more. Reduce as much of that back pressure as possible, unload your bicep. That will allow some finer muscle control, as well as the patience to perfect the touchdown. Alternatively consider manual trim instead for some finer touches after the power levers are closed and your other hand is free.

I dont prefer it, but leaving just a couple-hundred ft/lbs above idle makes things a little easier as well. You can hear the blades go flat, when that happens there results a distinct nose down moment. Bear in mind you've only a little more than 50 ft of wing, obscured by two 10.5 ft propellers - You can cancel lots of lift with the power levers.

If you have the STC and the runway length, Flaps 17 is slightly less demanding than Flaps 35.

Absolutely use both armrests all the time.

Not the easiest machine to grease...Your mileage may vary :ugh:

[aviatorhi]

Crossing the fence trim aft and carry a little bit of power. Don't be afraid to bring some extra back pressure and be mindful of the props occasionally wanting to go to ground pit early. I've done at least 2000 landings (if not more) in the 1900 and after the first hundred or so you'll be able to grease it on and get it stopped within 1500 ft at MLW (if you're not afraid of REF-10 you can do it in 1000).

[framer]

I have similar experience and would not recommend trimming in the flare. Mainly because you don't need to but also because it's a dodgey practice to get into if you plan on flying a jet at any stage, a jet is heavier in the flare yet you can't trim it in the flare ....well....you can but it won't be received well by the Captain or the checkies. That's my two cents.

[de facto]

Never trimmed in the flare in the be1900..
If your aicraft feels heavier,means you have reached vref or lower and its time to let it touch down.
Exact same in a jet, at least the 737.
run 3 or 4 seconds of nose up trim as you close the power levers. Maybe more
Are you doing that to float like a beech?:E

Not the easiest machine to grease...Your mileage may vary

The struts are so good, try to grease a metroliner 3 on a regular basis,now thats work and devotion:8

[haughtney1]

What's the matter B19hundred? those EAG sky gods being a bit tough on your delicate sensibilities? :E:E:E:E
FWIW, it's still a small enough aeroplane to be landed by feel, yes Vref+10 is a good starting point, but as has been spoken, the Props are big air brakes and act as such.
Next time you are PNF, make a mental note of when the props start to disk, that's the magic torque setting you want as your wheels a 1-2 inches off the Tarmac....works on EVERY spinny cooling fan powered TP I've driven.

[aerobat77]

Don't be afraid to bring some extra back pressure and be mindful of the props occasionally wanting to go to ground pit early. I've done at least 2000 landings (if not more) in the 1900 and after the first hundred or so you'll be able to grease it on and get it stopped within 1500 ft at MLW (if you're not afraid of REF-10 you can do it in 1000).

try to be with a turboprop over the fence with vref-10 , trim it back all the time and don,t be afraid to bring extra back pressure when closing power for the flare? :ooh:

you will be able to stop inside 1000ft, but will for sure need a crane to remove the aircraft from the runway !

@b19 : sure you go purely Vref ? normally , when rwy lenght is not critical most aim for blue line on a turboprop and fly it into the runway . close power close above the ground and do not try to float her excessivly an inch over the tarmac to aim for the perfect touchdown since a TP will brake dramatically with the levers closed and you will fall out the sky . in every case discuss it with the PIC and NEVER try some smart internet hints since some of them will end in a rush input of the scared captain to prevent a crash landing and a big shout on you after touchdown !

turboprops are different from pistons on landing, experience will come ! good luck !

[aviatorhi]

Yeah, that's right I had to use a crane several hundred times. :ugh:

Trying to land at blue line won't go to well for you, unless you like wheel barreling half the time.

it's a dodgey practice to get into if you plan on flying a jet at any stage

I have a bad habit of knowing what airplane I'm in instead of flying them all the same way. One unit of up trim in the 1900 just makes handling the round out a bit easier. If you refuse to trim in a situation where you cross the threshold at Vref +120 then you'll slam the aircraft pretty well (That' wasn't a 1900 but it was a turboprop, and it was appropriate to the operation).

[Just want to fly]

1. Fly Vref with power until 20' - 15'

2. Close the power levers completely

3. Wrestle with the controls

Repeat steps 1 - 3 until desired outcome is achieved :D

[EladElap]

All really good tips given... I have close to 2000 hours on 1900's and also very much favour trimming her back a little whilst rounding out.

They are really tricky to land nicely when they are light, as they tend to float a heck of a lot compared to when they are at MLW and a nice rear C of G.

Rather forget about greasing your landings for now, and focus rather on flying a nice accurate approach, on your speeds and nice firm touch downs. I've been bitten more than a few times landing on a very wet tar runway in a crosswind, and not been firm enough with the landing.

Enjoy the 1900, lots of fun to fly!

[GE90-115B]

Steps to land a 1900. I used to fly a 1900C.

When the RLW is High.

1. Torque on Final 1200- 1050ft lbs. Maintain Vref+ 10 - 15 Max.
2. At 100 feet above TDZ. Bring the torque back to roughly 700 ft lbs.
(You will notice an mild sink rate increase).
3. At 50 feet above TDZ. Start reducing the torque from 700 ft lbs to 0 slowly but steadily. Counter the Sink Rate utilizing flare.

IF THE CONTROLS BECOME TOO HEAVY UTILIZE PITCH TRIM BUT ONLY DO SO BELOW 20 FEET ABOVE TDZ.

When the RLW is LOW

1. Torque on Final 950-1050ft lbs. Maintain Vref+ 10.
2. At 100 feet above TDZ. Bring the torque back to roughly 500 ft lbs.
(You will notice an mild sink rate increase).
3. At 50 feet above TDZ. Start reducing the torque from 500 ft lbs to 0 slowly but steadily. Counter the Sink Rate utilizing flare.

IF THE CONTROLS BECOME TOO HEAVY UTILIZE PITCH TRIM BUT DO SO ONLY BELOW 15-10 FEET ABOVE TDZ.

REMEMBER FOR CROSS WIND LANDINGS IT IS RECOMMENDED TO CLOSE THE POWER 5-10 FEET EARLIER THAN THE NORMAL PROFILE TO PREVENT FLOATING.

The 1900 is a fantastic machine for the transition from a piston to a turbine. I enjoyed my training and line flying on this aircraft immensely. Unlike some one who mentioned that the aircraft cannot be greased. If you utilize the right technique you can grease her in such a way that it makes you wonder if the wheels have actually touched the runway. I already miss the 1900 but hey I am not complaining sitting on the RHS of a shiny jet.

Happy Landings :ok:

[B19hundred]

Thank you all for your feedback. Great to see the techniques to land this ship don't vary much. Time and practice will tell how well I could settle this bird to terrafirma.

Thanks again

[lionelmandrake]

Ref plus ten, trim nose up so that you are pushing slightly, retard the power levers completely at fifty feet. By the time you get to ref and a few inches above the runway, your push will have become a slight pull (if you have to use both hands, use more nose up trim).
Only drawback is, and it has happened to me once, if your prop governor has issues you can get a high sink rate and assymetrical drag situation down close to the ground using the closede throttle technique. It has happened to me once in seven years of flying the bird, and it resulted in a firm landing (no worse than my boss does consistently) and was a bit of a surprise. Had we closed the throttle completely while airborne, say at the outer marker, to check the function of the gear horn as I have seen some piots do, then we would have discoverevd the faulty prop governor at altitude and there would have been no surprise.
By the way, all the book values for landing distances are calculated using throttles closed at fifty feet.