weather minima

[seifly]

on a recent line check a discussion came up if one can start an approach if lets saywith a reported ceiling of 200' ( DA(H) 300') and a visibility of 5000 m.As i have always thought visibility as being the controlling factor for an approach:O

[aterpster]

on a recent line check a discussion came up if one can start an approach if lets saywith a reported ceiling of 200' ( DA(H) 300') and a visibility of 5000 m.As i have always thought visibility as being the controlling factor for an approachhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/embarass.gif

Unless the approach chart states "Ceiling Required" it isn't.

[PLovett]

There is a clip on YouTube of a 738 doing an ILS into Venice. They are aware before commencing the ILS that the weather has been fluctuating around the minima. During the descent they are informed that the weather is below the minima and they commence a missed approach.

I queried whether they should have continued the approach to the DA and then, if not visual, commenced the missed approach. I was informed that the particular company's SOP was that once they were informed that the weather was below minima after commencing an approach that the crew was to conduct a missed approach.

[I-2021]

Some info here (http://www.pprune.org/questions/117299-jar-ops-1-405-question.html).

Search function:E

Cheers.

[sevenstrokeroll]

it this simple...if you have the visibility you may start the approach....if you are below the minimum gs intercept altitude and the wx changes you can still continue to DA/DH
can even land ifyou see everything
now you and your company may have another idea if the apch says: ceilinou need the ceiling to be at or above published mins

[bubbers44]

Yes, that is the way it has always been in the US. Visibility for 121 or 135 operations, no ceiling requirement. At DH or MDA if you don't see the runway go around. I have done it dozens of times in 23,000 hrs.

[bubbers44]

SSR, are you sure you have to be below the intercept altitude? I never knew that or was taught that. All I know is if you are outside the final approach fix and vis goes down you can't continue the approach. Inside you can continue to DH or MDA.

[bubbers44]

Thinking about it unless you fly from the east into Miami you intercept below the glide slope so are probably right.

[sevenstrokeroll]

bubbers

for all practical purposes the FAF, OM or LOWEST GS INTERCEPT altitude on an ILS e all the same point.

If you look at a profile view on a jepp ILS plate, the lowest GS intercept altitud eis so near the OM as to be the same.

LOWEST GS intercept altitude comes into play only in certain places when OM is ots

[bubbers44]

Sounds good to me. Once stabilized at the FAF inbound you can continue to minimums. Doesn't matter if you are intercepting from above or below. Done both.

[9.G]

it's before and after the approach ban whatever that might be. :ok:

[Jonty]

You can commence the approach to the outer marker (4DME or equivalent, EASA its 1000ft) even if the RVR is below that required for the approach. If at this point the RVR is still below minimums you must Go Around. If you have passed this point you may continue to your DA/DH.

[B737-800W]

Jonty 100% agree

[sevenstrokeroll]

just FYI...there is no final approach fix on the ILS approach. if you see the FAF symbol (maltese cross) it is for the localizer only approach. The lowest published GS intercept altitude is the FAF equiv.

if you look at a Cat 2 ILS you will see no maltexe cross at the marker.

[aterpster]

bubbers44:

Yes, that is the way it has always been in the US. Visibility for 121 or 135 operations, no ceiling requirement. At DH or MDA if you don't see the runway go around. I have done it dozens of times in 23,000 hrs.

Not always for us OFs. I started in the 121 business in January, 1964. Ceiling was required in the U.S. until TERPs concepts came into being in November, 1967.

[sevenstrokeroll]

I too remember when the changeover happened to just VISIBILITY for US approaches. I seem to recall when FLYING magazine came out with an article on the subject...prehistoric times...real paper magazine.

[9.G]

Approach ban is applicable to any approach precision or non precision. It's for a reason there! Approach ban differs from country to country so does the minima requirement. :ok:

[aterpster]

9.g:

Approach ban is applicable to any approach precision or non precision. It's for a reason there! Approach ban differs from country to country so does the minima requirement. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Indeed, just as many countries still require both a reported ceiling of not less than the height above airport of the MDA or DA and visibility not less than that specified in the procedure. "Celing Required" above the minimums, at least on Jeppesen charts for those airports and/or countries.