The true cost of a PPL?

[Alex757]

Hi guys,

I am wondering, in reality, how much will it cost to get a PPL?

I am 14, and currently have no budget to start flying, but am trying hard to find a weekend/summer job, to pay for some lessons.

My local flight school offer £155 pph in a Cherokee 140 with instructor, so it is that times 50 or so, plus would you usually give the instructor more money as a kind of tip (£20 or so?) ?

Then of course, fees for inital starting the ppl with the school I guess? Cost of a medical, sitting the exams, etc. ..


So, any advice you could offer would be welcome!

[The500man]

Tipping your instructor would I'm sure make you a popular student, but no one else does anything like that! I'd advise you to budget around £10k. It may be a bit less or a bit more depending on aircraft, location, duration, and how quickly you learn.

[stewmath]

I suppose it also depends how quick you are at learning the ground school theory for the 7 exams also required. If you can learn from home and then just take the exam then its cheaper, but if you pay for hourly ground school lessons your looking at like an extra £20 - £30 an hour.

But say if you pass in 50 hours of flying, and learn your theory from home then i guess you could complete the ppl for about £8k.

But as the 500man said id probably budget £10k

[L'aviateur]

I'd check to see whether your local flying club has a smaller cheaper aircraft such as the Cessna 150.

You could take a trip to the local airfield, have a chat to the intstructors. They may be able to offer you a position cleaning aircraft and helping out in exchange for flying hours, so there is no harm in asking them for that. Being around the aircraft will be good experience, and hopefully you may be offered the occasional flight with someone.

[Alex757]

The smallest they have is a Cherokee 140, thanks for all the replies!

I know quite a bit already, through self tuition etc, and as for the tipping thing, just me being naive I guess :) I wasn't sure if you usually paid the instructor aswell.

As for looking for work at the airport, I might well try that! To be honest, a job involving aviation would be one of the few jobs that interested me, and my local airport I can cycle to easily, making it an ideal location!

Thanks guys!

[taxistaxing]

The number of hours to completion largely depends on the individual. If you start at 14 and learn in dribs and drabs it will likely cost more than waiting a couple of years and doing in a short period of time as half of each lesson will be spent relearning the previous lesson. Remember you can solo at 16 but can't get your ppl until 17.

Make sure the club includes "hidden" costs in the quote they give. Landing fees are £30 a time at some fields, and this will significantly increase the cost of a ppl. Watch out for other hidden fees e.g. membership fees, fuel duty etc.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Your profile says you're in Oxford - so I'm guessing that your local airport is Kidlington which is to be frank a pretty expensive place.

Not far north from there is Enstone which is a bit scruffier and less formal, but likely to cost a lot less. Cycle up there and visit the (I think) two light aeroplane and one microlight school and ask each to talk you through learning to fly, and sketch out the costs. You should get good answers, and also a chance to easily compare the costs of learning on different things. Phoning to make an appointment, or going on a wet cloudy day, might improve the chances of somebody having the time to spend with you.

A Cherokee 140 incidentally is an expensive, large, underpowered and ancient heap, quite probably older than your parents - albeit also perfectly safe and easy to fly. There are better options to learn on, and don't waste money learning on a 4-seater if you can avoid it; the learning experience will be no better than on a 2-seater such as a C152 or any microlight, but it will cost more.

G

[soaringhigh650]

I am wondering, in reality, how much will it cost to get a PPL?



They say its about the price of the average used car.

[Rod1]

What Genghis the Engineer said plus look at gliding – can be very cheap but time consuming.

Rod1

[Alex757]

Spot on, Kidlington ....

I might consider Enstone, I've been up there once before for the day, and yeah, it does look a little less organised than EGTK, but still a nice place!

I'm aware starting now will cost a lot more in the long run, but I cannot resist the flying bug much longer :D

[Jan Olieslagers]

All the more reason to avoid the PPL for the time being, it being the most expensive formula to getting to the skies under your own control. As others have said, gliders and microlights are at least as exciting, at much less cost. With any luck, you have plenty of years before you, to cover one aim at a time.
Another reason might be less restrictive age limits, especially for gliding. They certainly are in my country.

[dirkdj]

I went to the local flying club when I was 14, interested in starting gliding; They said come back next year when I was 15. Started and soloed gliders before the legal age of 16 (at that time), the examiner was from our CAA so who was going to stop him sending me off on my own? When I was 18 I started my PPL, soloed Cherokee 140 after 1:05 of dual.
Gliding is not only fun, it also makes you a better pilot.
My daughter also glides now and flies the Bonanza as well as a newly minted IR pilot I coached who never glided.

Just watch a few gliding clips on Youtube, fabulous.

[RTN11]

Assuming you start now, you won't be able to get your PPL until you are 17. A three year PPL is unlikely to come in at 50 hours, probably more like 60, possibly even more. But then the cost is very spread out so it's not like you need £10k tomorrow.

There are plenty of scholarships available through GAPAN, or the air cadets, some for 12 hours which really gets you on your way and possibly even close to solo.

[mad_jock]

As an instructor that has done quite a few start at 14 go solo on 16th birthday then license issue on 17th can't drive a car but can fly a plane.

Wait until you are 16 you get huge breaks in training basically to wait until the calander ticks over it costs you money.

Also as well as you mature your attention span changes Once your 16 you tend to be able to handle a full 1:30 min lesson. Some can at a younger age some can't.

If you want to just get in the air have a look at gliding and also there are various cadet schemes out there and gliding shows you are keen.

[Alex757]

My intention was not just to get in the air, but I am keen to learn!

I've always been a little nervous about gliding ... I don't like the thought of being in the air with no means of propulsion other than thermals and wind ...

[mad_jock]

Its magic and developes your coordination and also airmanship you will know what your feet are for after gliding.

I have never had a problem converting glider pilots to powered.

Don't be nervous in alot of ways the standard of instructing in gliding is way better than in fixed wing powered.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I think that Jock is spot on, plus the BGA has quite a healthy youth training scheme.

I'd guess that Aylesbury(Thame) is your nearest gliding club - I believe they're fairly friendly, and worth sounding out.

G

[Flying_Anorak]

Don't overlook Oxford Gliding Club - a friendly weekend only civillian club which operates from RAF Weston on the Green. I came here 22 + years ago and been here ever since, although as Chairman now I will admit to a slight bias!

I've just got myself an NPPL SSEA from PFT at Kidlington (a great bunch I'd highly recommend by the way!) and converting from a Glider Pilots Licence I only needed to do a minimum of 10 hrs - a significant cost saving plus the best basic training you will ever get.

PM me if you want to give us a try.

[Pilot DAR]

Alex,

I know the sums seem daunting, and the truth is people who are promoting their flying [instruction] service will always quote you minimums. You must plan to spend more than just the minimum to learn to fly, as very simply there is too much to learn to do it adequately in the minimums. To be honest, I could not see how it could be properly covered in twice the time. Good on instructors who succeed in preparing their students in the allotted time!

The next thing is to consider what you will do with the "ink is still wet" license when you get it. Unless you're just getting your license to say you did, and never flying again, you have more renting to do. Yes, solo, it'll be a little less, but not much less. So, you better plan to have an appropriate budget to continue flying after you complete your training. Don't start, 'till you can continue...

Your best way to economize training costs, is to be very thoroughly prepared for all of your lessons, with background knowledge. There are hundreds of great books (the Flight Test thread here list s few specific ones). Dedicate yourself to those, and you'll get the very most, in the least time in your training. Luck (and brevity) in any training favour the prepared...

Good luck!

[mad_jock]

Aslo Alex gliding tends to be an all day affair which you can be dropped off at and picked up later. You get way more entertainment for a teenager than powered.

Appart from anything else it gets you out the house and away from your xbox.

Also have a look at air cadets Air Cadets - Home (http://www.raf.mod.uk/aircadets/)

You can get free flying through them and also scholorships for both gliding and powered.

I know it might seem wierd thinking about what your going to do after school just now. But...

Getting a job isn't only about how well you do at school. Employers also look at what type of person you are as well.

If you want to go on and be a commercial pilot which is what I am. You need to stand out from the rest.

People look at what you have done in your spare time to do with aviation and also your other hobbys. Queens Scout award or Duke of Edinburgh always look good. Sport up to a point, football doesnt really make a difference in my opinion but there are quite a few keen Rugby chief pilots.

14 you have your life infront of you don't get focused about only one goal. Yes try and move towards that goal but don't fixate and block off other avenues just for that goal.

Air cadets and gliding will look good for most careers. And will also stand you in good stead if you apply for any flying scholorships which there are a few about.

Flying Scholarships - GAPAN (http://www.gapan.org/career-matters/scholarships/)
The Air League » Flying Scholarships (http://www.airleague.co.uk/scholarships/flying-scholarships/)

And this might be of interest as well

The Air League » Youth in Aviation (http://www.airleague.co.uk/leading-edge/uk-youth-in-aviation/)

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi Alex,

May I suggest you consider both gliding and flying in three axis microlights.

Gliding will be cheaper to begin with and will make you a better pilot when the time comes to 'fly power'.

The current crop of microlights are vastly better aircraft than the average club Piper or Cessna spamcan and are much cheaper to fly.

BP.

[ProfChrisReed]

Also, all the gliding clubs I know have a cadet scheme, which gives you cheap (sometimes free!) flying in return for helping run the flying side.

At my club our cadets are mainly forced to drive the retrieve vehicles - never any complaints from them, as where else can they spend the day driving and flying?

[mad_jock]

Just be a bit canny recommending aircraft types.

He may be wanting to go onto commercial and the microlight hours although very good fun and worthwhile from a experence point of view unfortunately are worthless when being used to gain a commercial license.

[Alex757]

Eventually, yes, commercial is my dream :)

[Genghis the Engineer]

However, at this stage - a lot of years away from thinking about commercial training, it's more important to get what flying experience is available to somebody under 16, than to worry too much about "in what".

I think still I'd look hard at gliding, having by far the best youth community in aviation - whether through a BGA gliding club, or through the Air Cadets.

I did once know a lad mind you who got very involved with his local microlight club, they helped him buy and rebuild a basic old aeroplane, got his PPL just after his 17th birthday, and instructor rating just after his 18th. Last I bumped into him, he was running his own flying school.

G

[mad_jock]

Stick with the gliding then until your 16 then start powered if you haven't seen any cadetships that you might go for.

In the mean time crack on with school and get some decent grades.

And if you don't think gliding is safe or fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBiCzfu0KXM

G. It makes a huge difference to cost if they start too young, you have a huge saw edge of a learning curve and the ppl ends up costing a fortune and then they have the wrong mix of hours for courses. Where as gliding they can get over an hour of proper stick time for 40 quid and a whole days entertainment with the rest of the teenagers.

Gliding and power also opens up opertunities for hour building by tugging gliders. Gliding clubs tend to prefer fellow glider pilots to drive the tugs.

[turbulentmonkey]

Budget for 10G at least. I done it all on my own, paid for by me. You won't get much change out of that and it may cost a little more or less depending on where you train. But it's worth it!

[abgd]

There are also all the options such as :

1) Go for an experience flight if you haven't already. You might discover that you don't enjoy it. Better to find that out now.

2) Build and fly radio control aircraft if you don't already. Aim to progress to something reasonably sophisticated. There's plenty you can learn about aircraft systems and aerodynamics from radio control models, and in my experience most pilots dabble in it. And if you have a lot of time and money invested in a model you won't want to crash it either so there are lots of useful decision-making lessons to be learned there.

3) Simulators - flying instructors seem to loathe teaching people who have lots of sim-time. On the other hand, how many computer-literate cash-poor kids will make it to flying school without having done so? I certainly didn't.

If you do end up using a sim, try to be methodical about it and use it to learn procedures and navigation. Don't just burn simulated holes in the sky. Personally I don't think it hurt my flying, but there are real limits as to how much you can learn from them, especially when untutored.

[Alex757]

1. Done
2.Never tried, but already know about aerodynamics, and systems
3. Very big simmer, fly commercial airliners often

[Genghis the Engineer]

2.Never tried, but already know about aerodynamics, and systems

You don't.

Some famous physicist or other once said that anybody who states that they understand quantum physics, is deluding themselves

If anybody truly understands aerodynamics, I've yet to meet them - and I know a great many people with PhDs in the subject.

I do however understand your desire to get your backside off the ground, and disagree with those saying to wait. Find a way to fly, and enjoy it. Worry about the path to a commercial licence (or if you become less unambitious, military flying) later when you're old enough for the detail to be an issue.

G

[The Fenland Flyer]

Find a way to fly, and enjoy it.


I agree, fly don't wait, there never will be a right time. Also hang aroud the airfield, help out if you can, you will get a free flight sometimes and you'll learn lots, it's a good way of keeping yourself interested while waiting untill you can go solo/hold a license. If you can't share costs offer to clean the aircaft afterwards, this will help to make you popular at this time of year (fly season :))

[Kengineer-130]

Go to America, you can get a PPL for under £4000, you will just have food & flights to worry about! Much cheaper & the USA is far better for GA flying, no landing fees even in big regional airports, weather is generally much better as well.

Save up until you are 16/17 then go and have 5-6 weeks in the states having the time of your life! :ok:

[G-F0RC3]

I've literally just about finished my PPL (final test within next couple of weeks). My total costs so far are:

Flight training and all 7 theory exams: just over £10,350
Headset: £266.95 (although you should be able to rent one)
Class 2 Medical Examination: £190
Air Comms Practical Exam: £75

I probably have about another £300-£400 to spend over the next fortnight, which'll take me up to about 55 hours in total upon completion of the test.

So for me it has been (including absolutely everything) about £11k. I suspect I've done it slower than average though. Whenever the weather wasn't good enough for what we wanted to do I decided to fly anyway and just do something else. If I had cancelled and instead only flown when we were working on new parts of the course (instead of revision) then I think I'd have the PPL with 50 hours.

So I'd say - as has been stated above - £10k is a reasonable budget, and if it ends up being a £1k more then it's not the end of the world.

Good luck with your training buddy! :ok: