European Challenger 605 Captain Salary

[Random Route]

Hi Guys. Just starting negotiations for a pay rise. Was thinking £100,000 is a fair salary for LHS 200 days contracted per year on a CL605 doing full charter (aeroplane doing 1000 hours per year). Any thoughts?

[BizJetJock]

If it's 100% charter, no chance. You'll get that from a private owner who wants to look after his crew, but a company that's trying to make money in this market will be looking to keep you below 90.

[redsnail]

How is the £100K broken up? Is that inclusive of pension, health care and allowances?

[Booglebox]

You might find a CL605 owner who likes to look after the crew, while also using his a/c for charters. I know a couple of them.
When you have your huge paycheck don't forget to come by Ops and drop off a tin of biscuits occasionally... :} Best of luck with the negotiations!!

[galaxy flyer]

I know guys in the US making that kind of cake, even a few at charter/managed planes.

GF

[fanfree]

It should be around 132'000 Euro / year.

[jackx123]

The high salaries are long gone. You can get a very experience LH for E 60,000 these days.

A buddy of mine just accepted that and he had 8,000h of which 4,000 on type. :sad:

[CDP8]

E 60,000 is Right seat money on a 605. I fly with captains that are on between E 90,000 - E 122,000.

[INNflight]

The beauty of aviation... someone will always do it for less. Grrml.

[flydive1]

The high salaries are long gone. You can get a very experience LH for E 60,000 these days.

A buddy of mine just accepted that and he had 8,000h of which 4,000 on type. :sad:

They are gone if people accept to work for cheap!!

[NuName]

I love the idea that we can enhance the pay level by refusing to work for less than we consider to be a fair rate. Trouble is that the next guy who needs to pay his rent and feed the kids too will accept, and I don't blame him, he will jump ship though as soon as he gets a better offer.
Lets face it, if you have a home to keep together you have to take what's on offer, the owners/operators that want to put us on a financial diet now WILL pay later.

[flydive1]

I love the idea that we can enhance the pay level by refusing to work for less than we consider to be a fair rate. Trouble is that the next guy who needs to pay his rent and feed the kids too will accept, and I don't blame him, he will jump ship though as soon as he gets a better offer.
Lets face it, if you have a home to keep together you have to take what's on offer, the owners/operators that want to put us on a financial diet now WILL pay later.

Sure, but then can be said about pilots paying to fly, you cannot blame them for that.
Yes, we can just accept whatever offer we get, but then we must shut up and not complain about degrading standards.

[NuName]

Errr? I did say a pilot who needs to eat and keep a lid over his/family's head definately NOT one who can pay to fly. We are in a recession, the employers have the upper hand, this won't always be the case.

[flydive1]

Same thing, do you need to fly to feed your family? The only job available is Ryanair(as an example) but you have to pay? Well you borrow the money, pay the rating and start to fly and get an income.
I really do not think that all the pilots that pay have already the money in their pocket(or Daddy).

Same as they probably did to get their licenses in the first place.

Yes, is not the same market as pre 2008, but still we have to try to do something for us.

[NuName]

Is it the same thing that I have to pay? I am freelance, I have to pay for my recurrent every year, the recurrent fee's go up but my rate, to be competitive, remains the same or even in some cases is less. Do I sit at home or go to work?

[flydive1]

I'm freelance too, I pay my recurrent too.
Does that mean that I accept to fly PIC on a GLEX for 500USD as some do?
No.
You do? good for you, you get to fly. Bad for me and everybody else, because the rates gets dragged to the bottom. Thanks.

But then, please, do not come here complaining that there is no money in this business.

[Joe le Taxi]

Lets compare apples with apples here - We're talking about a UK based full-time Challenger Captain here. The salary to attract a presentable, rounded and TYPE rated Captain is in the order of £85 -105k pa. (Germany/Austria - less for some reason, and also sometimes less if the job is more like a paid holiday - I was offered £65k once for P1 on a GLex, but was tempted, as it flew once a month, and generally to a 5* beach resort.)

You will probably get a few CVs for less, but you get what you pay for. The guys who are willing to work for peanuts are on the market for a reason - a bit odd or a bit clueless and cant find better. Thankfully most bosses recognise this, and in my experience, we are not so much subject to the same unseemly low-balling as in the airline pilot world.

As for freelancing, I have generally found operators are willing to pay for LPCs (inc cost sharing). If I had to pay that myself, my quotes would appear astronomical (even though it would just be recouping the considerable cost).

[NuName]

flydive1
I do not complain, you must have me mixed up with someone else.

Joe le Taxi
The aircraft I fly have insurance that requires sim based training so I have to do the expensive route.

No need for aggression here, times are tough and some folks have to accept that for what it is. At the same time I do not belong to a union, I run my own business and will do what I have to, to remain in business. If that means negotiating for work so be it. Anyone who has a problem with that is welcome to send me £20,000 to pay for my recurrent and I will listen to their argument. By the way, I have not reduced my rate but have not increased it in the last 3 years either.

If there was a Challenger Capt. out there out of work and refused £80K or more in today's financial climate then he is obviously financialy sound or bonkers.

[unimuts]

Any one with salary for LHS and RHS for a Challenger 850 ? Work coming my way in Moscow, and wanted an idea

Thanks

Uni

[CaptainProp]

NuName - I think you are missing one point here, I assume Joe le Taxi IS talking about "sim based" recurrent training. I don't know ANY operators, or European authorities that accept any other type of recurrent training for these kind of aircraft (GLEX, Falcon, Challengers etc).

From what I hear salaries for these types today should be from £85K or €110K per year. Accepting €60K per year as Captain sounds very strange to me unless the roster was exceptional or perhaps it was something temporary just to get some cash....even then.....?

CP

[NuName]

CaptainProp, I thnk not, I know of a couple of operators that offer LPC/OPC in the aircraft with a examiner but none that offer sim based training to a freelancer. And I agree with your estimate on what salaries should be but I have also heard of offers being made lower, who mentioned £60K? Maybe you should read my post again.

[CaptainProp]

"My" CAA would never accept a type renewal in the aircraft.

The €60K came from another poster.

[cldrvr]

90-120 charter

100-150 private ops.

[mushroom69]

It depends a lot on the breakdown, insurance, housing etc. £90000 here, but also nice house, company car and paid petrol, per diems in addition. But not a rotational position. Good if family and friends can visit, but limited chances to go away.
It seems that many in ME are going over to the "no rotation, live here" arrangement as well, but they are having a hard time getting people.
Was offered 8 on, 4 off and same salary, but refused.
Good luck. €60,000 for a good captain is what I got on a C550 in 2007........

[Random Route]

Hey again guys. Deal hammered out verbally last week. £8k per month, €110 per day perdiem with loss of licence, travel insurance and BUPA. I think that's a fair package. Any thoughts?

[fade to grey]

wow, I need to get away from the 757 to where the money's at.....

Are these salaries so high because the type ratings are expensive and pretty much a closed shop amongst a few sim providers ?

£8K seems fine to me...

[PURPLE PITOT]

FTG, get a global rating then, you'll love our deals!

[CaptainProp]

@ RR- I think that's a fair/good deal! What sort of roster are you working?

@ FTG - They are high on some types because there are less / few experienced pilots around and willing to change company then on other types. Sometimes it has nothing to do with type / cost of type / rated pilots available etc but simply that the company Principal has found a crew that he/she likes and wants to pay them well for the job they do.

"Getting away from the 757 to where the money's at" is not that easy. There are quite a few very experienced corporate pilots still around without jobs and they will "always" be ahead in the line for the good bizjet jobs.... At the moment I would say - If you have a job, hang on to it until things get a bit more stable with world economies, Middle East etc etc. Changing job always comes with some risks and I personally would not do that right now, not for another 1K a month or whatever at least.....

Good luck!

[Random Route]

Hi again.

That time is once again upon me.

Latest pay review offers €10,000 a month, plus €115 a day DMA for 180 days contracted per year, LHS.

How does that stack up against the average for a busy CL605 doing 600 hours a year charter in Europe?

Cheers