777 TO trim settings

[169west]

777 ... ferry flight ... dual FMC failure ... how is it possible to calculate the nose up trim setting for take-off? Thanks

[Mr Good Cat]

Manual Loadsheet, on the trim chart of course!

[CLOUDSDRILLER]

Hi 169 West,

I guess there must be some clue in the B777 FCOM, however, I would rather directly call or e-mail the guys at Boeing, they will probably provide good advice.
There is not any shame asking to the relevant person, rather than trying to re-invent aviation.
Be careful, stay on the safe side of the borderline anyway.
Good luck ! Have a safe and happy flight on your ferry, and further on.
JL

[john_tullamarine]

.. and, if the aeroplane has a paper AFM, in that document .. or the Weight and Balance Manual.

However, on the flight deck, the load sheet/load message will have such data.

[mutt]

Why on earth would you be operating a B777 without FMC's? Even for a ferry flight?

Have you considered that if you strip the aircraft for delivery into a boneyard, then the load charts wont apply!

Mutt

[Non Zero]

If you really have to do you can find the chart on Section 4 of the AFM (Recommended Takeoff Stabilizer Trim Settings), like John said. Recommend a full trust TO although you can find the trim settings also for derated!:}

But if you have to do it ... you got more serious planning to handle! (i.e. Trust settings for all phases of flight, Pressurization, etc...). But interesting topics! ;)

[BlackWater01]

Interesting sbj

And what happened to the stab trim information in the TO page in the CDU when you dispatch the plane with the autothrottle inoperative?

[Non Zero]

[QUOTE] And what happened to the stab trim information in the TO page in the CDU when you dispatch the plane with the autothrottle inoperative?[QUOTE]

Never happened yet but I think you loose the trim and also the TRUST LIM page, even if you request the performance via ACARS!

[FullWings]

"777 ... ferry flight ... dual FMC failure ... how is it possible to calculate the nose up trim setting for take-off? Thanks"

5.0 ;)

[Sonny Hammond]

Dual FMC failure and you want to takeoff?

[john_tullamarine]

then the load charts wont apply!

In general, there should be no problem, presuming min crew load only. Revised LDS takes care of the config change and one then just ignores all the non-fuel trim lines as being irrelevant for the purpose ..

Otherwise a simple back of a fag packet exercise for the local weight control chappie.

Dual FMC failure and you want to takeoff?

Indeed .. surely it gets closer to being a real aeroplane and we olde pharts would be inclined to have a go ?

Reminds me of a wonderful Oz aviation icon. When doing his DC9 endorsement (previous jet was a Meteor in Korea) he was doing it tough .. until the standby power session ... waltzed out of the box with a grin from ear to ear ... "just like a real aeroplane, mate !" and, having discovered that the beast's facade was just that .. had no problems thereafter.

[Sonny Hammond]

Fair enough.

The MEL i've got says one required for dispatch.
I agree a VFR flight or circuits wouldn't be a big drama but even if you could go with them both inop, with all the airspace requirements these days it'd take yonks to figure out how you'd get from A to B using only alternate nav at the planning stage and meet all the rnp requirements.....:confused:

[catpinsan]

It's AFM section 4, Pg19A in ours, couldn't be too far off the mark.

Note that there are charts for 2 levels of Thrust settings for each of the flap settings.

[catpinsan]

To those recommending the use of the manual W & B charts/tables, they often just have a few of the 6 possible charts:

1. Flaps 5 or 15 and sometimes 20, each in turn has
2. 'high thrust' or 'low thrust', where low means more than 15% derate using Assumed Temp.

Depending on what Flt Ops policy incorporates on the printed forms and charts, the load sheeter may have limited choices. I've normally seen just the high thrust versions. It's assumed that typical ATOWs are well within the RTOWs and not limiting so the pilot may have to use one of the available combinations for T/O. In case they aren't, then it's a special case - if the AFM page cannot be found (it doesn't seem to be popular knowledge) it's time to wake up the Tech Boffins, at 2am with a call from BGSF!