Freecall or not

[torob]

Hello,

I'm confused when to freecall and when not.

Flew from Biggin Hill to somewhere on the mainland. Because it was VFR I had to remain outside controlled airspace in the UK.
After Biggin I had to contact Farnborough radar, requested basic service and passed my whole message as in my opinion controllers don't have to coordinate with the next controller in uncontrolled airspace and therefore won't be aware of your flight. After Farnborough I had to contact Manston radar where I gave again the whole message.
Mid channel Manston instructed to contact Ostend Approach. I thought that because I was in uncontrolled airspace going to controlled I had also to freecall again on first contact but after calling "Ostend App, XX-ABC" they replied with "XX-ABC, radar contact" so apparently Manston coordinated this with Ostend. Because i was not really prepared to get this reply I eventually passed my whole message again which was of course not nessacary.

I know when you are going from one controlled airspace to another you just pass your heading or 'inbound to' and your FL or alt but can someone explain what you can expect in the other circumstances? What if you are going from LARS or FIS to another (controlled) unit or in the opposite direction?
I searched already in the CAP 774 and 413 but couldn't find anything related to this question unfortunately.

Thanks in advance

[fisbangwollop]

If your told to "Contact" that means the next unit has your details.....if your told to "freecall" they dont have your details. :cool:

[dublinpilot]

It can be a bit of a guessing game in most countries, but the UK make it very clear for you.

If the controller tells you to "Contact xxx on xxx.xxx" then your details have been passed on already and they are expecting you. If they tell you to "Freecall xxx on xxx.xxx" then your details have not been passed on and they are not expecting you, so you have to give your full details over the radio.

I wish other countries adopted the same system ;)

dp

[torob]

Thanks a lot for the answers!!

This is how I have always understood it but I was in doubt as I couldn't imagine that also the LARS units coordinate with each other for a VFR flight.
It makes it as already said really clear if 'contact' and 'freecall' are used.

Can I conclude the following;

Biggin instructs 'freecall Farnborough radar': I contact Farnborough with callsign and service requested on first contact and after the 'pass your message' I give them the whole message.

Biggin instructs 'contact Farnborough radar': I contact Farnborough with callsign, inbound XXX, XXXXfeet, service requested on first contact.

[aluminium persuader]

In your second example, just "Farnborough Radar, GABCD" will do. The radar handover completed by the controller will have passed all the rest.

"Radar Contact" as per Ostend is an ICAO equivalent of "identified".

[torob]

aluminium persuader

On the flight from Biggin when I had to contact Farnborough and Manston I just gave the callsign and service requested.
What is confusing me is that they replied with 'pass your message' while they have the required information from the previous controller. Do they just want know what my intentions are although they can derive it from the flight plan I would think....

[bookworm]

What is confusing me is that they replied with 'pass your message' while they have the required information from the previous controller. Do they just want know what my intentions are although they can derive it from the flight plan I would think....

Very often, they won't have sight of the flight plan. In my experience, it would be unusual for a controller who already had your details from a previous unit to respond with a "pass your message". In response to "pass your message" after an introductory call, it seems perfectly reasonable to give full details. If the controller simply says "radar contact" (more usual outside the UK) or confirms identification and the type of service, then it seems reasonable to leave it at that, and the controller will prompt for further info if required.

In the UK, as well as the terminology "contact" vs "freecall", a change to a different (non-7000) squawk immediately before a frequency change is a good indication that some coordination has been carried out.

[peterh337]

The other side of this is that, for example, in France, every ATCO can access your flight plan immediately, whereas in the UK a VFR flight plan goes to more or less nobody apart from those explicitly addressed, and even then they will most likely bin it unless you are landing there so by the time you call them up they won't know who you are...

So the 'freecall' v. 'contact' is a bit of a bodge to cover for the lack of a known traffic environment in the UK Class G which is the result of disjointed ATS funding :)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I couldn't imagine that also the LARS units coordinate with each other for a VFR flight
It's happened to me. Not very often.
Biggin instructs 'freecall Farnborough radar': I contact Farnborough ...
You can if you like. But if you don't want to talk to them, or if you don't want to talk to anyone at all, you don't need to - they aren't expecting your call so won't take any search and rescue action if you don't call them. (Assuming OCAS.)

[AdamFrisch]

It used to be a shambles in FAA-land as well getting flight following/radar service. Until a bright woman at FAA came up with an idea that ATC units only get paid by the amount of traffic they handle - VFR or IFR. All of a sudden they were falling over themselves to provide great radar service and do proper handoffs.

Maybe that's something the UK should consider?

[mrmum]

Excellent idea, the CAA should also charge for any CAS in the FIRs (say, per cubic km per day), airports should pay for CTRs and CTAs and they could bill NATS for airways and TMAs.

[chevvron]

AdamFrisch:LARS units used to be paid in this manner, but different units got a different amount of money for the same type of service, (eg MOD units got a standard MOD rate while civil units often negotiated a much higher amount for the same service) so the system was revised so that units instead got paid on a standard rate for the hours during which they offered LARS eg mon-fri 9-5, 7 days 9-5 or H24 (that's not a complete list by the way). LARS units have to submit stats to show any closures of LARS during the hours they normally got paid for, and number of aircraft worked.
There is only a limited total amount of funding available for LARS from the NATS En-Route budget (about £2M pa I believe) which in turn comes from Eurocontrol En-Route Charges, and it has to be spread very thinly over many units.

[GeeWhizz]

Just a quick note on flight plans and LARS. A LARS agency is very unlikely to have your FPL to hand. It could be downloaded but its not really necessary, as long as ATC know where you are, where you are going, and what your route is.

Contact vs Freecall: pretty much what others have said. 'Contact' means that the next agency has all of your details, 'freecall' means they have none. There's also 'continue with' which means that the next bod has some of your details! I should point out that 'some' places will say contact xyz without a full handover which is misleading. So unless you've been given a new squawk I'd assume its a freecall.

Please appreciate that we try to handover as much as possible, but sometimes it isn't for many reasons: workload, radar coverage, and even at the request of the next agency being the main ones.

Enjoy this glimpse summer! GW

[10W]

'continue with' which means that the next bod has some of your details!

Not CAP413 phraseology though, and therefore non standard.

[liam548]

Useful thread and not something I have worked out myself or read elsewhere.

I have found in my experience if you are on a Traffic service and flying at a decent altitude you almost always seem to get a handover of some kind.


Whereas VFR and at a lower level you get a lot more "freecalls".

[soaringhigh650]

The word "freecall" seems to be only used in the UK and, if the controller tells you to "freecall", that's when you will need to pass your details all over again.

Outside the UK you will need to do this if told "squawk VFR/7000 and contact/try <...> on <....>".

The US also has an automated/electronic handoff system that reduces radio babble and manual telephone calls between controllers.

Once you have been handed off just say callsign, current altitude, and target/cleared altitude if climbing or descending when checking-in.

Because it was VFR I had to remain outside controlled airspace

Actually you only remain outside when you DON'T have a clearance.