SEP Revalidation - still the same?

[CruiseAttitude]

Hi,

Has the procedure for renewing a SEP rating (JAA PLL) changed now due to EASA? Is it still the old SRG 1119 form that needs to be sent to the CAA (for either renewal through experience or proficiency check with examiner)?

Many Thanks.

PS: How should a successful SEP revalidation flight with an examiner be logged in the logbook, is it a normal PUT entry?

[BillieBob]

We're still working to JAA requirements; EASA implementing rules don't come in until 17 Sep in the UK. Thereafter, the only difference is that if the rating has lapsed by more than 3 months, mandatory refresher training is required and the renewal will have to be signed off by the CAA and not the examiner.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

One difference is that you can no longer renew the SEP if you only have an NPPL medical declaration, you need a real class 2.

[Andy_20]

You would log it as P1S if the test is passed. P/UT (Dual) if the test was failed in anyway.

[dublinpilot]

:confused: The question was about realisation not a test:confused:

[The500man]

I think it's a renewal if it's before the expiry of the rating and a revalidation after. To revalidate you have to complete a sort of mini-skill test, so I imagine it can be logged P1S like any other test with an examiner.

[DB6]

500man, other way round. Think: still valid - revalidation. Expired - renew.
As Billiebob says, nothing changes until 17 September (at the moment) and I wouldn't be 100% sure it will then either.
Billebob, hadn't picked up the requirement for that action after 3 months - do you mean 5 years?

[Andy_20]

The500man is correct. P1S if successful, P/UT if not.

[BillieBob]

do you mean 5 years?Nope, 3 months. The requirement for refresher training is at AMC1 FCL.740(b)(1) which also requires the ATO to issue documentary evidence that the required training has been completed that is then to be submitted to the competent authority when applying for the renewal. The CAA has confirmed that if the rating has expired by less than 3 months, when there are no mandatory refresher training requirements, the renewal may be signed by the FE/TRE but after 3 months the rating may be renewed only by the Authority (no doubt for an extra fee).

[The500man]

500man, other way round. Think: still valid - revalidation. Expired - renew.

Oops! My bad. Out of interest someone said to me that you don't need to pay the CAA anything for renewal (after 2 years) unless you are past the 5 year mark. Is that right?

I wish the CAA would make all of this clearer for those of us that don't like wading through the bull**** on their website or in LASORS.

[trident3A]

I've just revalidated my SEP rating by experience and there is no charge from CAA - not sure about renewal

[gasax]

Renewed time before last, re-validated last weekend - no CAA charge for either option.

Hence the advice for people without the necessary hours in the last year to renew as the more cost effective option.

[Angel_1_five]

I renewed my rating after 22 years today cost 89 pound at the counter service at gatwick ,really good service there .

[mrmum]

The500man

The definitions from CAP804, Part B http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP804Cor.pdf are;Renewal (of a licence, rating or certificate)
The administrative action taken after a licence, rating or certificate has lapsed for the purpose of renewing the privileges of the licence, rating or certificate for a further specified period consequent upon the fulfilment of specified requirements.
Revalidation (of a licence, rating or certificate)
The administrative action taken within the period of validity of a licence, rating or certificate which allows the holder to continue to exercise the privileges of a rating or certificate for a further specified period consequent upon the fulfilment of specified requirements.

Currently, until 17th September;
If you revalidate a SEP(L) class rating, either by experience or LPC, then the examiner can make the licence entry. The SRG 1119 does need to be completed and sent to the CAA, the form does kind of imply it should be accompanied by a SRG 1187, payment form, but it's not required in these circumstances.
If you renew, which requires a LST, if the rating has been expired by less than 5 years, then it's the same as above. All administration done by the examiner, form to the CAA, but no fee. If it's over 5 years, then still a LST and SRG 1119, but as the CAA have to make the entry in your licence, you must also send a SRG 1187 payment form.

Post September 17th, then it seems it changes as described above by Billiebob.

[Dan Winterland]

''I renewed my rating after 22 years today cost 89 pound at the counter service at gatwick ,really good service there'' .

Good to hear. I just knew they would get a satisifed customer eventually!

[DB6]

Thanks Billiebob. I started to go through CAP804 but they almost immediately reissued it, then deferred it all until September so I must admit to ignoring it for now.
The only good thing about all of this is that more and more people are realising just how ****e all this EASA/EU crap really is, so the chances of it eventually being kicked out increase all the time.

[BEagle]

DB6, I certainly hope so. EASA part-FCL is a totally unwanted, unnecessary embuggerance which will do absolutely nothing to improve safety in any way whatsoever.

Why on earth the rulemakers can't accept:
- Revalidation=Either meet 'experience requirements' or fly a test.
- Renewal=Do whatever refresher training you think you need, then fly a test.

But no. For example, they've now added 'demonstration of competency' for FI 'certificate' holders, because some precious people didn't like the idea of periodic 'retesting' for FIs. "Ve haff passed the Skill Test, ve do NOT need more testink!".

Also, under part-FCL, a Skill Test only applies to the initial issue of a rating/certificate - thereafter even renewal is by Proficiency Check.....:ugh:

[Angel_1_five]

Ha ha Dan very good :) not super happy about paying 89 pounds though !

[CruiseAttitude]

Thanks for the replies guys,

Last time I revalidated was through experience, however this time round I had to do an LPC with an examiner as I had not been able to do the required flying in the last 12 months due to being abroad.

All went well on the LPC and the examiner has signed my certificate of revalidation. So do I log this as 'examiners name' and PUT or 'self' and P1S? The only P1S entries in my logbook so far are for my initial PPL and IMC skills tests. I thought that P1S was only used on successful completion of a skills test pertaining to a new licence or rating? Is the SEP LPC for revalidation classed as a test?

Thanks again

[DB6]

P1/S (or PICUS) for any form of flight test with a JAA or CAA authorised examiner. From http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_lts_LASORS%202010%20Bookmarked.pdf , (LASORS), page A42.