Flying to (and landing at) Barra

[deanoverton]

I have a flying tour of the Scottish Highlands and Islands booked for next week and have been recommended Barra as an interesting destination. Whilst I would love the entry in my logbook of a true beach landing I am slightly nervous of making a landing on this type of surface with my retractable undercarriage Mooney 231. Can anyone who has been there offer me any advice? Apart from the novelty value, is there any other reason to visit Barra?

Deano

[Genghis the Engineer]

I did it once in a PA28-161 and still regard it as one of the best days flying I've ever done.

152 Group - Popham (http://www.152group.co.uk/photogallery/northernuk/nothernuk.htm)

It is morally challenging - there's a 50nm sea crossing to get there, the large hill to one side challenges you, as does getting a mental picture of where the runway is. Approaching at a typical 5 degree angle, the runway just looks like a chunk of Atlantic. The landing is in a spray of seawater and seaweed that will take some hosing off later and is rather disconcerting.

In terms of actual flying difficulty, no, that was straightforward. It just took a bit of nerve.

And having taxied to the top of the beach and parked, after a gorgeous flight, you find yourself in one of the most beautiful places on earth. A short walk crosses the island to the most astoundingly clean, enormous and empty beach you've ever seen. I also remember a damned find soup and a roll from the cafe by the control tower, and a bit of interesting wildlife.

Is there much else to do there? No, not really - great landing, take photos, walk and admire the scenery. For me, that was enough, and I very much want to go back again another day.

I then flew to Islay, where I parked up for 3 days and did several distillery visits!

G

[flybymike]

there's a 50nm sea crossing to get there, the large hill to one side challenges you, as does getting a mental picture of where the runway is. Approaching at a typical 5 degree angle, the runway just looks like a chunk of Atlantic. The landing is in a spray of seawater and seaweed that will take some hosing off later and is rather disconcerting.


Well all that was certainly enough to put me off....

[mad_jock]

Get your plane hosed down as soon as possible afterwards. A visit to Oban straght afterwards used to be normal and an up lift of fuel and they would sort you out.

G your ment to land when the water is out (bloody boffins!)


The only special is not to stay still with the engine on because the vortex off the prop will dig a hole for you wheel to go into.

The sand has a fair amount of suction when you rotate so give it some back pressure then quickly lower the nose a tad to get the speed back.

Its well worth walking over the back of the dune to see the atlantic and the served not bad soup and fresh home made bread rolls last time i was there.

[deanoverton]

Thanks, Genghis: but will my undercarriage dig into the sand - a Mooney is renowned for having thin aspect nose and main wheels?

Deano

[Genghis the Engineer]

Jock - "out" on a kilometre long beach does leave some rather large puddles which just look like deep water at 5 degrees.

Deano - no idea - all I can say is that a standard Warrior not far off MTOW didn't have a problem.

G

[mad_jock]

I wouldn't have thought so as long as you don't land immediately once the tide is out or on its way in.

I have landed there in a C172 and tommy and no probs but they have chunky tyres.

The sand is actually alot harder than you expect to be honest.

I suppose you could check what the numbers are for the twin otter and see how they compare to the mooney.

[Artistic Intention]

Landed at Barra about 3 weeks ago. Obviously you need to contact them to find opening times as it's only available at low tide.
The "runways" are quite difficult to spot, but if you fly towards the terminal you can see some marker boards for the runways.
The sand seems very firm when the tide is out and you don't leave much in the way of wheel tracks so your Mooney should be OK. Certainly no worse than if you use it on grass.

[Mark 1]

Remember, when the tower's in operation it's a licensed airfield with a landing fee. At other times it's a public beach and free at your own risk.

Check the tides first.

A great experience and a better landing surface than a lot of real airfields I know.

[fisbangwollop]

A good wheels eye view here of the beach surface...
Barra Airport (EGPR) Scotland Beach Landing - YouTube

[NorthSouth]

At other times it's a public beach and free at your own riskNot so I'm afraid. Movements outside the published hours are not allowed and HIAL's out of hours indemnity scheme does not cover Barra.
NS

[piperboy84]

I wonder just how effective a hose down is after, I'd imagine that spray would get up inside the belly and rot the hell out of the plane over time

[Maoraigh1]

there's a 50nm sea crossing
You could cross over Skye-Benbecula, reducing the sea distance, then fly south to Barra.
I wonder just how effective a hose down is after, I'd imagine that spray would get up inside the belly and rot the hell out of the plane over time
I've only flown there in a wood/fabric - deliberately. I agree with this quote, especially for a retractable. I've only the wheels to hose down - and then taxi/fly to dry off, otherwise the water lies in the brakes.
PS Solas (beach) is 14-18 June. Going there tomorrow.

[Mark 1]

Not so I'm afraid. Movements outside the published hours are not allowed and HIAL's out of hours indemnity scheme does not cover Barra.
I see in the AIP:
Aircraft movements at Barra prohibited outside AD/ATS hours except in emergency.

It's been some time since I was there, but Paul at Oban said you could land at any public beach subject to the usual rules of the ANO. Maybe there's an exception here.

[dublinpilot]

I'm planing on heading up that direction shortly (was hoping for this weekend, but the weather isn't looking too hopefull).

But as much as I would like to, I wouldn't land at Barra because I'll be in a retractable. My concern is not so much the wheels digging in, which is probably a low risk, but rather the water and sand that may get into the gear switches.

Even after a good clean down, I could well imagine plenty of gear indication problems. Maybe my fears are unfounded, but I don't intend on finding out! I'll be sticking to the land based airports ;)

[mad_jock]

I suspect you will be correct dublin.

[deanoverton]

My fear exactly, Dublin. I'm giving Barra a miss.

Deano

['India-Mike]

Loganair once tried operating a retractable undercarriage aeroplane to/from Barra. It wasn't a success. Being a retractable was, I am told, part of the problem. BEA, back in the 1950s, took a special version of the dH Heron (1B) with fixed gear too for beach work. Of course these commercial aeroplanes would be going repeatedly rather than on one-off visits, but beaches was the main reason for choosing fixed-gear.

[140KIAS]

Landed at Barra in a retractable 182 a couple of years ago.

WGxze77tn1g

According to ATC/Fire bloke the sand is like concrete and could support a 40 ton artic.IIRC best time to land is about 3 hours either side of low tide. When we landed there was still a fair amount of standing water which looked much deeper than it actually was.

Biggest challenge was identifying the notional runways which are marked at either ends with orange posts. However I suspect you could probably land pretty much any direction.

Suggest you give them a couple of days in advance to check tide times which dictate opening hours.

To minimise time over water you can route via Tiree or Coll which gives 37nm sea crossing. Alternatively you could route via Skye/Benbecula which cuts it to about 14nm but adds a fair bit to the overall route.

Firemen at Oban should oblige with washdown. They wouldnt accept payment but I gave them a donation for their charity collection tin.

[NorthSouth]

Maybe there's an exception hereYes there is. When not in licensed hours it's used by cockle-pickers and HIAL are not prepared to allow unrestricted aircraft movements.
NS

[betterfromabove]

Hi,

Did exactly same approach as 140KIAS (r/w 04?) in a C172. Was blowing down the pitch at a steady 20kts and got some rather interesting oscillations off the dunes on the undershoot all the way down finals.

Agree with all the other comments posted about the surface, difficulty of spotting runway tracks from a distance and the wonderful friendliness and beauty of the place.

Best summary of advice seems to be:
1. Study plates carefully beforehand and plan join, so put oneself in best position to see the runway orientation. You'll probably see the boards before you see the centrelines.
2. Take note of tide times (these determine opening time anyway).
3. Treat it as a soft field operation (even tho' sand was surprisingly hard on our trip too....), so steady power changes and motion while out on the movement areas.
4. Avoid stopping until near the terminal, where sand drier. If you think out your parking spot, this is where you can do your run-up checks as well before departing.

Shame you have to clear off before the tide comes back in as it would be a wonderful place to spend a few days. Have they ever thought making a little parking area up on the dunes?!?

BFA

[NorthSouth]

BFA:Have they ever thought making a little parking area up on the dunes?!?I think it has been done in the past. Why not suggest it to HIAL? Perhaps we could make it a joint approach from everyone on here that thinks it would improve the attraction of Barra for light aircraft?

Having reminded myself of how glorious flying out that way is today, with a flight to Colonsay, I'd be right behind it.

NS

[betterfromabove]

NorthSouth - Wasn't sure how serious a suggestion it was actually?! But, it would be great wouldn't it. Maybe I will suggest it to HIAL. You'd think it wouldn't do any harm to the local tourist trade would it?

Not sure if the dunes are protected somehow, but all you need is a flat surface with some fencing (plus some sheeting to keep sand from blowing in?). Security not too big an issue up there I imagine?

Shame how many people drop in for the experience and leave same day.

PS. Remembered funny thing the FISO/fireman told me - they'd had some French GA visitors and they had a habit of parking on sand that was too soft. So "run-up time" quickly descended into "dig-out time". :uhoh::{

[mad_jock]

They had a tail dragger up in the dunes for ages which had come to grief on the beach in a squall.

[140KIAS]

I believe there is a track of sorts off the beach where it might be possible to pull an aircraft above the high tide level.

Alternative would be to plan your visit for times when there is a neap tide.

[Oldpilot55]

Neaps, tatties and haggis. Delicious!
They do rather good seafood on Barra.

[betterfromabove]

I sent that email to HIAL and they got back to me very quickly with quite an interesting reply......
____________________________________________________________ _______
Basically, when the wind sock is flying Barra is a licensed airfield, during other times is reverts back to being a basic public beach (open to the public to wander around etc). Therefore all landings and take offs should be done during our opening hours.

For parking over night, yes you can do this and yes you are right when it comes to parking at your own risk. As we do not have boundary fences etc to properly safeguard the airfield, hence at your own risk. If you so wished to park overnight we would need you to sign a disclaimer form stating that you are doing this at your own risk. We can give you an indication of where best to park including advice on tide levels etc.
____________________________________________________________ _

Now, do they win Most Helpful Airfield in the UK or what?!

Yes, know thankfully there are some other wonderfully friendly and helpful places, but considering this is probably the most technically unusual place in the country to operate, this is really impressive isn't it?

I might live miles away, but it warms my (Barra beach....) cockles that airfield management like this still exists in the UK!

BFA

[betterfromabove]

Must have been hugely impressive to see the Shorts 360's operating into there.....especially if coming in off 04.

[maxred]

That is very encouraging. Well done for the mail.

They are obviously on a PR campaign, to build, what was perhaps a slighty more aggressive take on GA.

Having said that, I found Kirkwall to be one of the most welcoming and helpfull in recent times, so well done HIAL. Now lets work on Inverness.........:\

[mad_jock]

Sounds like the nice lady FISO is still there by that email.

['India-Mike]

Just for betterfromabove

Shorts 360 at Barra | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/28652222@N03/6255808598/)

Heresay from someone involved at the time was that the MD was told if he wanted to operate a 360 from Barra, he'd better go and get his own ATPL:E

[betterfromabove]

I-M.

Very kind of you.....indeed, quite a sight!

BFA

[Floppy Link]

Can't let the shed photo go without adding a Twin Otter and an Islander from 1986...

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc264/Boecopter/Twotter.jpg

and

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc264/Boecopter/BN2.jpg

We did have a Twin Otter parked up above the high water line after a heavy landing, so it can be done. Not sure how it got up there.

[mad_jock]

That must take some effort, heavy landing a twotter.

['India-Mike]

And to whet the appetite of those keen to go, check out this week's BBC Scotland page

BBC News - Your pictures of Scotland: 8 - 15 June (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18409189)

Second picture in. 'Airport' just out of sight to the left. But that's the landing area:ok:

[Helicopterdriverguy]

Looks like the finest Scotland has to offer (Scenery and aviation wise of course). I think I might fly up there one Day once I have my license :D.

[mad_jock]

Its one of the places to visit, but wouldn't say its the finest.

There are many many places to go and see and they all have there own unique beauty and memorys.

[Helicopterdriverguy]

Well yes but I mean it in the way that its one of the places that are not quick to get too so it would be special for me if I could visit.

[mad_jock]

HIGHLAND AIRWAYS WEST COAST VFR - YouTube

And the airframe was blown up in the new batman movie.

[fisbangwollop]

And the airframe was blown up in the new batman movie.

And the cockpit.....BBC News - Ex-Highland Airways flight deck used in Batman returns to Highlands (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-18143246)

[Flyingmac]

Provisional date for the next 'Lancashire Landing' Fly-in at Morecombe Bay is July 14th-15th. The sand is firm and unlike Barra, there's no standing water . There's also a pub with grub, chip shop and an excellent cafe within 200yds. G-AVVC | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/qsyonroute/5824468717/)