Looking for an engine rebuild.

[EGNH Flyer]

Chaps,

I currently have a 172 with a rather tired engine. The engine is running very well, burning little oil, making rated power, good compressions etc.

I'm currently running on-condition, and would like some advice on rebuild options/costs.

I currently have quotes from Nicholson McLaren, and Norvic.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

EGNH

[Zulu Alpha]

Richard Isenburg at Southend. A real craftsman.

I have never heard any complaints about his work. No internet though, he is old school and you have to phone him.

Isenburg Engineering Ltd
Aviation Way
Southend on Sea
Essex SS2 6UN

01702 547490

[wsmempson]

Neil Andrews of AEP (Aero Engineering & Powerplant - About Us (http://aepengines.com/index.php?section=1054)) did the engine on my Saratoga last year, which has run like a swiss watch ever since. On time, on budget and delivered looking great, it's difficult to want more out of a new engine. Cheaper would be nice, but if you pay peanuts, you tend to get monkeys; on that topic, there are one or two outfits well worth avoiding - pm me if you want chapter and verse...

[Dan the weegie]

I currently have a 172 with a rather tired engine. The engine is running very well, burning little oil, making rated power, good compressions etc.

With respect, why rebuild the engine if it's doing its job well? why not just start saving?

[achimha]

I currently have a 172 with a rather tired engine. The engine is running very well, burning little oil, making rated power, good compressions etc.

What else do you expect from an engine in good condition other than what you mentioned? Maybe it would be worth reading Mike Busch's thoughts on going past TBO (http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/savvy_aviator_45_how_risky_is_going_past_tbo_195241-1.html). You might not be happy with the engine you get back.

[A and C]

I would have no problem recommending any of the engine builders mentioned above, I have had dealings with all of them and no problems with any of them that they were not prepared to resolve.

Engines are sometimes troublesome and in my opinion it is when things don't go as you would like you find out who will back there product.

It is very seldom that I have had to go back to any of these company's with a problem but both Eisenburg and NMA have done all in there power to resolve problems with their products, I have not had a lot of dealings with Neal Andrews or Novic so can't say too much apart from that their after sales back up is good.

Any other engine builders in the UK are not worth dealing with, they offer a good price but that usually reflects the quality of the product !

[Shunter]

Any other engine builders in the UK are not worth dealing with

Sweeping and ridiculous. There are plenty of folks out there who can build an engine just as well, if not better, than those mentioned above. I fully concede there are many who are also pretty dodgy, but to generalise like that is rather poor form.

On the matter in hand if your engine is running well why tear it down? Keep track of the compressions, oil usage figures etc. Cut open the filters whenever you change them, wash them down with some avgas and check for ferrous metal. Send off an analysis kit once a year etc.

Ours was using a fair chunk of oil and we found metal in the filter. We pulled the cylinders and a piston pin end cap had gone walkies and put a big scrape down the side of one of the barrels. Re-con cylinder on, new piston & caps, job done. Rest of the engine was in great shape so we chose to spend less than £2k to fix the issue at hand in a couple of days and she's been sweet as a nut ever since. Got 2400 hours on the lump yet it burns no oil, makes plenty of power, compressions are a good 10psi north of minima. No plans to spend money when there is no good reason to do so.

[A and C]

Shunter I think not !

After thirty years in the UK maintenance business I have had dealings with all of the players in this game and seen countless shysters come and go as well as a few good ones leave the game.

The four that I would recomend have a reputation for good service and backing their product in the field, the others simply fail to match the quality product and service.

It is that simple.

[wigglyamp]

What about Ronaldson Airmotive? They did my PA28 engine 6 years ago and it's been totally trouble-free so far.

[Phororhacos]

EGNH Flyer wrote...

I currently have quotes from Nicholson McLaren, and Norvic.


Would you consider sharing the quotes with us?

DOI, I have a shareoplane 172 with a Continental O300D running on condition (re age rather than hours).

[smarthawke]

Nothing like a bit of insider dealing then wigglyamp. Any other reason you might promote one particular company...??

At work we use NMA and AEP. We have used others in the past and for various reasons moved. PM me for more info.

[peterh337]

What about Ronaldson Airmotive? They did my PA28 engine 6 years ago and it's been totally trouble-free so far.

Did you manage to get them to supply you with the work pack afterwards?

:E:E:E:E:E:E

Our work packs and worksheets are generally regarded as the most comprehensive in the industry and far superior in content than our competitors. A tremendous amount of work and effort has gone into creating them and therefore they are regarded as proprietary information and we do not issue copies of these to customers

[wigglyamp]

Smarthawke

As I recall you used to use the same company as I chose at the time of my engine overhaul. I haven't had any complaint about the work carried out for meb- that was the only point I was making in the same way many that other companies have received commendations from satisfied owners. Our current relationship is irrelevant.

[wigglyamp]

Peter.

I wouldn't have expected to receive a copy of the work pack - I have a comprehensive logbook entry covering all of the component replacements and associated traceability, along with information on AD and SB compliance. I would however expect a copy of the work pack to be provided if I requested it - I'm obliged to do this under Part 145 for aircraft we maintain.

[3 Point]

I'm not going to name the company but I recently had a very bad experience with my engine overhaul.

There were numerous delays and several significant quality issues, for example. My engine is a pre dynafocal crankcase, the case had to go to the US for repair and I got back a dynafocal one - the company didn't notice and built and delivered me a nice clean dynafocal engine which would not go on the aeroplane!! They then effectively supplied a replacement engine but there was another significant error which required subsequent removal and re-fitting of that engine. The aeroplane was grounded for 2 months longer than it should have been.

Be very careful to seek multiple opinions before you decide and make sure you are satisfied before you pay!

Happy landings

3 point

[NutLoose]

I currently have quotes from Nicholson McLaren

Cannot fault them, they have done several of our engines.

[stevelup]

NM did ours at the beginning of this year. They were fast and efficient, did what they said they would and there were no nasty surprises.

[peterh337]

I would however expect a copy of the work pack to be provided if I requested it - I'm obliged to do this under Part 145 for aircraft we maintain.

Indeed; and they refused, giving two different bizzare excuses (I posted only one of them). I reported this to the CAA (to the exactly right people too) who were, shall we say, totally but somewhat "actively" uninterested.

For various specific reasons the magneto overhauled was then effectively worthless so I spent another $800 on an overhaul by Quality Aircraft Accessories in the USA - the usual place chosen by the most careful US owners, for accessories. Fortunately I keep a spare on the shelf (it's a single shaft dual mag) so it didn't ground me.

I now understand Ronaldson are under new ownership :E A bit like taking over British Leyland... I do wish you only the best, genuinely...

This is the kind of stuff which one finds all too often in the UK, sadly.

When I did "due diligence" on engine overhaulers here, in 2008, only Nicholson McL were universally spoken of well. One other was good but with a hugely variable lead time, and the others were at best 50/50 which is about par for the UK GA maintenance scene generally.

I sent the engine to Barrett Precision in the USA, who do universally superb work, but sadly for G-reg owners they cannot generate an EASA-1 form. They used to be able to do an Export CofA (though they forgot for my engine even though I requested it :ugh: ) which used to be OK for a G-reg but AIUI no longer is.

OTOH I gather there is a most interesting paperwork path from an 8130-3 to an EASA-1, via an EASA Part F company.......

Ownership is a fun game...

[A and C]

The reason that I don't use anyone except the four companies mentioned above is that I was tempted by another company and had two engines done by them, I specified and paid for Lycoming cylinders and had PMA items fitted, the engines were back in service very quickly and this was not spotted until later, the result is that both engines will have to have a cylinder change before TBO.

I am lucky having got caught only twice by this but other operators have large fleets of aircraft with this problem.

Why don't I go back and take legal action? The guy has changed the company name slightly and busted the company I had my contract with.

I have no problem with the guys ability to build engines, what I can't take is his business ethics and ability to supply the requested product as specified.

I understand that the business has now been taken over by a reputable company, given the history , the saying about Leopard & spots comes to mind.

[david viewing]

Don't forget the Lycoming option. Although often derided, it was the only game in town after my crankshaft was condemned over internal corrosion.

[stevef]

To maintain a balance:
The commercial company I work for use Ronaldson both for Lycoming engine overhauls and component servicing/repair. We've never had cause for complaint in the three years I've been there, turnrounds are as quick as can be reasonably expected and Rachel in the front line is excellent in regard of customer service.

[greeners]

Have paid a lot of money to several organisations over the ten years of running 5 very busy aeoplanes.

The ONLY organisation that I would recommend is NM.

I have not used Neil Andrew's organisation but I worked with him when he was at NM and he is clearly a capable and good bloke.

[powerlimited]

Has anyone any experience of using MultiFlight at Leeds?

I have a Lycoming which requires O/H, I have spoken with Norvic, Ronaldsons and MultiFlight.

I will now be looking at others suggested here.

Cheers.

[smarthawke]

My apologies if I implied some kind of hidden advertising or Victor Kiam syndrome.

We did indeed use the company to which you refer and followed same to Nicholson-McLaren Aviation after that buy out.

We remain content customers of NMA and latterly AEP as well.

Edit to add to the OP, try a search on PPRuNe and the Flyer forum (if you haven't already)and see what names come out on top. There's a lot of info out there from both private customers and people 'in the trade'.

You will notice the difference with a newly overhauled engine - that is a fact.

[NutLoose]

Has anyone any experience of using MultiFlight at Leeds?

I have a Lycoming which requires O/H, I have spoken with Norvic, Ronaldsons and MultiFlight.

I will now be looking at others suggested here.

Cheers.

Yes, one of our customers had his PA 28 engine done by Multiflight and it now has in the region of a thousand hours on it with no problems.