French Customs Notice

[Davidt]

This is a follow on from the thread ref the loss of customs at large numbers of GA friendly French airports.

I now read in my June issue of AOPA's GA magazine p13 under the headline
"French Want 24hours notice of GA Flights" that those customs fields which do remain now require a days advance notice so no as the article puts it "same day decisions to have lunch in Le Touquet".

Is this fact there is no authority quoted for the assertion, a trip to Deauville on Friday with no notice was no problem saw customs in and out bound with no discussion of notice and their AIP entry still states customs o/r or up to 19.00 with pnr. L2K web site still says no customs notice required during opps hours and the Customs own website has no reference to an new notice rule.

please tell me the article is wrong in this respect???

[peterh337]

I have a feeling this is a typical "French cockup" whereby they gently plog along, a bottle of wine for lunch, until somebody "big" gets upset and then the sky falls in. After a while cooler heads prevail.

For example they proposed to boot out N-regs in 2004 and dropped it very quickly as soon as it reached a fairly high profile.

In this case I see Courchevel on the list of airports set to lose Customs, which betrays utter incompetence in reaching this decision. Calais got very upset and seem to have nipped it in the bud.

But I think this has some more distance to run before it is realised that it is economically counterproductive. I expect they will backtrack for at least some of these airports.

French Customs are mostly [several hours] PNR and almost never turn up. I've never seen them.

[david viewing]

Maybe, but my MP has copied me a letter from the relevant UK Govt minister re-iterating the 24Hr ruling. HMG really don't give a toss about this infraction of our rights to free movement, presumably because it's their fault for not signing up to Schengen. They've probably colluded with the French over it as another way to cut down GA ahead of the Olympics, IMHO.

The Minister even has the impertinence to suggest that I take legal action personally! Patronising git. And these are the Tories! Gawd help us when Blair gets back in.

[patowalker]

... so no as the article puts it "same day decisions to have lunch in Le Touquet".

What nonsense. Le Touquet has a permanent Customs presence, so no PNR, and there is no threat of removal of their Customs facilities. If they can't get that right, how can you trust the veracity of rest of the article?

[gashton]

To the effect...

------------------------------

"I recently received my copy of the June edition of General Aviation magazine. In it, there is an article entitled "French want 24 hours notice of GA flights". As a reasonably regular visitor to France, I read this with interest. However, try as I might, I can find no further information on the web as to the requirement for a 24 hour notice period to enter the Schengen zone. Specifically, I can find no way of notifying the French border control authorities of my intentions, e.g. via the French SIA website or NOTAMs.

Please could you advise as how I might find out about this new arrangement and how best I should proceed when planning my next flight to Le Touquet?"

and received the following reply...










"Someone else has called in this morning with the same question. Martin Robinson is not in the office but I have asked someone else who says “the 24 hour notice is not really relevant - you just have to file a flight plan and turn up’. If you know the airfield you are visiting and know that they still have customs that is. You can check on the French website SIA - La rfrence en information aronautique (http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/html/frameset_aip_uk.htm) to find out which airfields have customs.

When Martin arrives in the office a bit later I will ask him if he can expand and let you know."

--------------------------------

My reading of the article is that the letter from David Lidington is quite explicit, i.e. the phrase "those entering Schengen via a designated border entry point are required to provide 24 hours notice".

So until I hear otherwise, I intend to file a flight plan and email Le Touquet customs at least 24 hours before planned arrival since there is no other obvious way of notifying the French border authorities and it will be clear that I have attempted to comply with the regulation. It is less hassle to do this and then if necessary send a cancellation email than it is to have my aircraft impounded :)

[gashton]

Martin has [...] more or less reiterated what I said to you earlier. He did say, however, that you should contact the airfield where you intend to land and get them to give you permission in writing. There has been instances of the police waiting and therefore it would be wise to have the permission about your person.

[peterh337]

I have asked someone else who says “the 24 hour notice is not really relevant - you just have to file a flight plan and turn up’Not sure that can be right.

For a start, flight plans may not be transmitted to the receiving address until EOBT minus 10 hours or so; this applies to all Eurocontrol (IFR) flight plans, where each country can nominate the "10" or whatever figure.

VFR flight plans filed via Afpex get sent right away, but some agencies (e.g. homebriefing.com) delay them until the DOF/ date and then transmit them (in the case of homebriefing they discharge their responsibility by transmitting the FP to the departure ARO whose job is to file it as normal :E)

Also, a flight plan has never served as any kind of PNR/PPR. No obvious reason why it shouldn't except restrictive working practices within the aviation / Customs industry.

So, either there has been a revolution in this area (and you need to make sure your FP really does get transmitted immediately, > 24hrs before EOBT) or somebody is poorly informed. Certainly, there are plenty of people out there who think a VFR FP amounts to PPR if not rejected :)

[patowalker]

The article is wrong. The 24 HR PNR certainly does not apply to airfields that have a permanent Customs presence, like L2K.

Their website could not be clearer: During the opening hours of the Airport, the customs officers are on duty, enabling you to land and take-off without prior notification. Outside these hours, please contact us.

Aeronautical services | Aeroport International Le Touquet Côte d'Opale - SEMAT - Le Touquet Airport (http://www.aeroport-letouquet.com/en/aeronautical-services/)

As for recommending you read the AIS to find out if the airfield you are visiting has Customs, that is also bad advice. Dieppe, for example, is shown as providing Customs facilities with 2 HR PNR during AFIS hours and 24 HR PNR or last opening day before 1500 outside AFIS hours. Customs have not been available at Dieppe since the last round of cuts.

[gashton]

I hadn't looked at the SEMAT website before, and yes, it does state:

During the opening hours of the Airport, the customs officers are on duty, enabling you to land and take-off without prior notification. Outside these hours, please contact us.

However, the SIA AIP Aerodrome text for LFAT Le Touquet states (and there was a NOTAM about it for a long time):

9 - Douanes, Police / Customs, Police

HOR ATS. PPR PN 2 HR avant / before ETA par / by :
- Email : [email protected]
ou / or [email protected] - FAX : 03 21 05 59 34
La demande de douanes doit comporter les renseignements suivants :
- Immatriculation de l’ACFT,
- Nom du CDB,
- Nom des PAX avec numéros de passeport ou carte d’identité.
The customs request must include the following information:
- ACFT registration,
- Captain’s name,
- PAX names with passport number or identity card number.

Web reference https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/aip/enligne/PDF_AIPparSSection/VAC/AD/2/1207_AD-2.LFAT.pdf (https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/aip/enligne/PDF_AIPparSSection/VAC/AD/2/1207_AD-2.LFAT.pdf)

which I have taken to mean 2 hours email notification at all times. I have occasionally had a reply stating that this is authorised, but generally no reply. Or am I misinterpreting the line "HOR ATS. PPR PN 2 HR avant / before ETA".

Yours, just trying to do the right thing.... :confused:

[peterh337]

Many AIPs are full of bull.

The more south in Europe, the worse it generally gets.

This is why one should always contact the destination airport directly.

By all means use the AIP (or some airport directory e.g. this one (http://www.handbook.aero/hb_airports.html)) to get the contact details.

In some areas "everybody" knows the AIP is full of crap and the airports notam essential info like this, on a perpetual basis. They don't bother cancelling the notams when the info supposedly appears in the AIP on the next AIRAC cycle. But I still just contact the airport. French ones normally have somebody who speaks English; less so for Spain or Italy.

The most useless thing is to ask re airport info on P p r u n e or Flyer :)

[werewolf]

" The article is wrong. The 24 HR PNR certainly does not apply to airfields that have a permanent Customs presence, like L2K.
Their website could not be clearer: During the opening hours of the Airport, the customs officers are on duty, enabling you to land and take-off without prior notification. Outside these hours, please contact us.
Aeronautical services | Aeroport International Le Touquet Côte d'Opale - SEMAT - Le Touquet Airport "

This a false ad from the airfield operator. I wrote them 2 years ago, or so, and never got a reply nor a change in their website. They want to keep business and not to deter Brits for paying for a high (by French standards) landing fee.
L2K is PNR 2hours prior ETA, Customs facilities in Summer 0700-1800Z, in Winter 0800-1800Z. It means that you have to return to the UK by 1800Z, with a 2hours PNR prior departure ...
Please stick to SIA info (VAC map, Notam, AIP ...) and don't believe in private (non official) websites or in GA magazines.
BTW, Dieppe is notamed 'no customs'.

[peterh337]

Do you work for one of the other French airports, werewolf?

[patowalker]

L2K is PNR 2hours prior ETA, Customs facilities in Summer 0700-1800Z, in Winter 0800-1800Z. It means that you have to return to the UK by 1800Z, with a 2hours PNR prior departure ... Oh, yes? See exchange of emails below:

--- On Sun, 18/3/12, Aeroport du Touquet <[email protected]> wrote:

From: Aeroport du Touquet <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PNR Customs
To: "Donald Walker" <patowalker@... .com>
Date: Sunday, 18 March, 2012, 9:55

Hello,

It is no more necessary now to file any customs notification 2 hours before coming.
You have just now to send your flight plan.

Best regards
Françoise


From: Donald Walker
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 3:48 PM
To: [email protected] (http://uk.mc877.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected])
Subject: PNR Customs




Good afternoon,

I would appreciate clarification of the following:

The AD VAC says: "Customs, Police HOR ATS. PPR 2 hours before ETA, but your website says: "Pendant les heures d’ouverture de l’Aéroport, la présence du service des douanes vous permet d’atterrir ou de décoller sans préavis."

Do I need to send a flight declaration by email if I plan to arrive from the UK during ATS hours?

Thanks and regards

Donald Walker

[peterh337]

:ok:

The French method :)

[patowalker]

It works. They will also let you in without a transponder, if you ask nicely on the radio.