LAPL/NPPL training

[tobster911]

Hi all, I have posted about the LAPL in the past, but forgot to ask one very important question.
If I were to start to train for my PPL, on a PPL course at an FTO, would I be able to do the hours for an NPPL , then just decide to get that instead, say, If i couldn't complete me PPL for money reasons etc. Will I have to redo a different course, or will my PPL trainig time be valid... i.e do 32 hours of PPL, then decide to sit NPPL/LAPL exams and get that license instead?
Thanks
T

[riverrock83]

Best to talk to your FTO, so that they can make sure you do all the common modules and you are fully informed when you are doing modules which are PPL specific (such as instrument appreciation) so you can make a decision on which way to go. Early training will be the same for both anyway. Get a Class 2 medical - it will cover you for either.

My understanding is that in general the hours will count for either, but you aren't flying to complete x number of hours. You're learning to fly to be able to be a safe and competent pilot. If you aren't doing an intensive course, there is a good chance you wont be ready in the minimum hours of either course anyway.

I would decide which licence to get based on what you are wanting to do with the licence. Not how much training time is needed. If you run out of money to complete the course, you aren't likely to have the money to keep current anyway - but that's a different discussion.

[BEagle]

There is no specific 'IF module' for the PPL course, whereas in fact for the NPPL course we require 1 hour - enough for pilots to realise that they should stay out of IMC!

PPL training will count towards the NPPL in full and the exams are identical. The only NPPL-specific item, if I recall correctly, is operation from grass runways.

If you fly a PPL QX-C rather than an NPPL QX-C, it will susbequently count towards PPL requirements as well - unless the €urocrats have screwed things up....:*

[tobster911]

Thank you for that... Just wondering, what is 'IF' and 'PPL QX-C' and 'NPPL QX-C'
Sorry for my lack of knowledge :)

[riverrock83]

There is no specific 'IF module' for the PPL course
This would traditionally be Exercise 19 of a PPL and a skills test includes some flying in simulated IMC with foggles? Difficult to do without any training...

I can't find it for EASA but it was in JAR-FCL 1.125 (http://www.jaa.nl/publications/jars/607069.pdf)

3. The PPL(A) flight instruction syllabus shall cover the following:
(h) flight by reference solely to instruments, including the completion of a level 180 degrees turn (this
training may be conducted by a FI(A) or STI(A));

I've recently done this in my PPL training...

[BEagle]

'IF' is 'instrument flying'.

'QX-C' is the qualifying solo cross-country navigation exercise - the PPL version is longer than the NPPL version.

There is no specificaly defined 'module' for IF in the PPL course. However, some IF training is obviously required in order to prpeare the applicant for the PPL Skill Test IF requirement.

[BEagle]

'IF' is 'instrument flying'.

'QX-C' is the qualifying solo cross-country navigation exercise - the PPL version is longer than the NPPL version.

There is no specificaly defined 'module' for IF in the PPL course. However, some IF training is obviously required in order to prepare the applicant for the PPL Skill Test IF requirement.

[riverrock83]

QX-C = Qualifying Cross Country
As part of either course you need to do an extended flight on your own, which is checked and certified.

For PPL one cross-country flight of at least 270 km (150 NM), during which full stop landings at two aerodromes different from the aerodrome of departure.

For NPPL: one cross country of at least 185km (100 nm) in the course of which full stop landings at two aerodromes other than the aerodrome of departure.

IF will stand for Instrument Flying. On either course, you will only be qualified for flying in visual conditions (ie - you can see out the window). Just in case you ever go into cloud by mistake, there is a small amount of instrument only flying in the courses, enough for you to make a 180deg turn to get out of cloud so you can see again.

You can find the NPPL syllabus here (http://www.nationalprivatepilotslicence.co.uk/syllabus.php).
The PPL one is much harder to read, and is changing from JAR to EASA, but nothing fundamental is changing as far as you would be concerned. The old JAR one can be downloaded from here (http://www.jaa.nl/publications/section1.html) under JAR-FCL 1.

[riverrock83]

There is no specifically defined module or exercise for anything in the PPL course AFAIK, so really Beagle you are nit picking! I do note that I was incorrect about instrument appreciation being not in the NPPL. In fact - there will almost certainly be the same amount of instrument flying in both courses.

tobster911 - do note that there is various bits of extra paper work involved to follow the NPPL syllabus - so it might be easier to do an NPPL then expand it to do a PPL. eg, solo nav briefing certificate, and you need a navigation skill test before doing the Q-XC. If you are doing a PPL course you don't need these. If you didn't do the skill test before your Q-XC then you would presumably need to re-do it after you had been tested (by which time you may as well just do the PPL). So as I said initially - talk to the flying school about what you are thinking about.

[BEagle]

riverrock83, there are mandated requirements for certain elements of the PPL course and the NPPL course, but there is no minimum instrument flight time requirement for the PPL course.

As the Chairman of the NPPL Policy and Steering Committee, I agreed with my colleagues that a minimum of 1 hr of instrument flight time was to be included.

Having flown dozens of PPL Skill Tests as a PPL/FE, I consider that the standard of competence exhibited for the '180 deg level turn' can be rather variable.

If you didn't do the skill test before your Q-XC then you would presumably need to re-do it after you had been tested (by which time you may as well just do the PPL).

Huh? The NST must be flown before the NPPL QX-C; the GST may not be flown until all other NPPL training requirements have been completed, including the NST and QX-C.

[riverrock83]

Huh? The NST must be flown before the NPPL QX-C; the GST may not be flown until all other NPPL training requirements have been completed, including the NST and QX-C.

Sorry - I wasn't clear - that's what I was trying to say.

I was trying to point out that if you were doing a PPL course, and you did the QXC, that QXC wouldn't count towards an NPPL as you hadn't done the Navigation Skill test.

So if you plan on keeping your options open as long as possible, you might be better to do all the NPPL paperwork, do the NST, get a Class 2 medical, do a longer cross country, then decide nearer the end if you want to do some extra for the PPL (probably minimal additional training) or stay with the NPPL.

I'm a PPL student with only experience of the EASA/JAR-PPL so your knowledge of this at a practical level (actually - in pretty much all levels!) is much greater than mine so I'm sure the OP would welcome your advice in how to keep their options open.

On the Instrument Flying, my school did with me a bit over an hour of instrument appreciation (including a practice SRA thanks to Prestwick ATC which was great fun but very hard work!) with me. My instructor said they always do at least an hour, hence my comment that for practical purposes, the same amount of IF training is likely on either route. I have no idea how widespread that is.