Naples Air Center, Florida - who has actually been there?

[martinbeck]

Hi all - as many here I am thinking of doing my JAA PPL accross the Pond. Naples, Fl is very convenient for me as I happen to know the area quite well, etc. Now, I have been browsing a lot through the various threads and there seems to be quite a bit of reference to/talk about negative feedback on NAC.

However, with the exception of maybe one person who apparently had an issue recovering some of his deposit (which to my understanding was at the end resolved and also was not as clear cut a complaint as it first seemed), I have seen no actual feedback (positve or negative) from people who have actually completed their PPL at NAC.

Therefore, I would be really grateful to hear some first hand experience (ideally recent) from people who have been at NAC.

Many thanks in advance and apologies if this has been discussed in other threads beforehand. My question is relatively specific and I have been browsing the forum a lot but haven't quite found what I was looking for!

Again, many thanks and looking forward to your replies!
Martin

[B2N2]

Many have been there, few will write about it.
Search seperately for Naples Air Center, Naples Air Centre and NAC and click on posts rather then threads.
Something more usefull should come up.

[zondaracer]

I've been there and found the customer service to be very unsatisfactory, ranks dead last of the different places where I've been. PM me if you want to talk offline

[capt. skidmark]

I was there in 2002, when months after I completed training they illegally charged $4000 on my creditcard. Fortunately mastercard gave me my money back.

[wild goose]

I was a student there.
This is a rip off joint.
The way the students are treated is a disgrace.
There are many other very problematic aspects to this school.
If you are interested - PM me, but a word of advice - dont go near them!!:=

[steamlots]

I live close to Naples 6 months of the year, remaining time in the UK. I can't comment on NAC but would recommend Paragon Flight Centre at Page Field,Fort Myers.I have both US and CAA PPls and always find Paragon to be honest and trustworthy. I have no connection with Paragon except as a customer - fell free to PM me if you need any further information.:)

[2high2fastagain]

Martin, the very best way to go about this is to get over there on a recce and visit a number of flying schools. Talk to them and see how you feel. Students who have done this seem to find schools they are happy with and report good experiences.

[Flying Lawyer]

I did some flying at two Naples schools a couple of years ago.

I was entirely satisfied with customer service, aircraft and instructors at both schools and would happily fly/train with either again - but they were different so, ideally, potential students should visit both and decide which is more suited to them.

Naples Air Center
Richard Gentil (Owner) and all the FIs with whom I flew were friendly and helpful. I was happy to fly with whoever was available, sometimes at short notice, and was very satisfied with the instruction I received on each occasion.
The Warrior was old, as they usually are at UK flying schools/clubs, but that didn't bother me. I'm used to flying vintage aircraft a lot older than that. It performed and handled well and I had no reason to doubt that it was properly maintained. (Their C172s are newer but I wanted Warrior time.)

In common with other large busy schools, NAC has sometimes been described on PPRuNe as a 'pilot factory'. Perhaps it is in some respects: it's been in existence for many years and has certainly produced many pilots. Although the so called pilot factories don't suit everyone, they serve a useful purpose - if they didn't, people wouldn't train with them. (One of the FIs with whom I flew had trained and qualified at NAC a couple of years earlier.)

RexAir
RexAir is newer but well established. Rex (Owner, FI and A&P Mechanic) worked for another FTO at Naples, where several sources say he was highly respected, before setting up his own school.
I'm not surprised RexAir grew quickly and has a good reputation. The atmosphere was welcoming, helpful and professional. When I asked about the C172 I'd be renting for a trip to Key West a couple of days later I was invited to inspect their aircraft. The C172 I flew was in immaculate condition - one of the newest school/flying club aircraft I've ever flown.
Rex was obviously entirely straight, went carefully through each item on my invoice and I'm confident would ensure customer satisfaction if any issues arose.
My impression is that RexAir is more 'personal'. Their dedication to customer satisfaction was second to none that I've encountered over a few decades' flying in the UK and in several other parts of the world, including other states in the US.

BTW, although flying in America is much cheaper than in the UK the actual cost is often higher than appears in the advertised rates. It's important to establish before you fly precisely what will be charged and how it will be charged.
eg
Is there a fuel surcharge? If so, how much is it per hour?
UK schools don't usually charge for pre/post flight briefings but American schools commonly charge it as 'Ground Instruction'. If there is a charge, what is the rate? (Distinguishing between instruction and general conversation could be tricky. I haven't thought of a solution but if I was going to do a training course with an American school I would try to devise one.)
If you land away when dual, will you be charged for FI time on the ground? I haven't experienced that in the UK but American schools usually charge. If so, is it at full or reduced rate? (I don't know what NAC charge because I didn't land away; RexAir charge half-rate.)


Naples Airport
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/Florida%20Flying/NaplesAirport800.jpg
The airport (http://www.airnav.com/airport/KAPF) is about ten minutes drive from the centre of town. It’s busy (average 300 movements per day), mainly corporate jets and light aircraft, but the controllers are very efficient and there were no long frustrating waits on the ground with the Hobbs ticking up.
Occasional instructions to hold before joining or to extend the circuit were no hardship – just a good excuse to see more of Naples’ glorious coastline at low level.


Marco Island Airport
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/Florida%20Flying/MarcoIslandAirportFL.jpg
About 10 nm south east of Naples.
Useful for circuit practice because it’s much quieter (about 50 movements per day) and you can fly smaller circuits.

Everglades Airpark
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/Florida%20Flying/EvergladesAirpark_850.jpg
About 28 nm from Naples. Very quiet - fewer than 100 movements per week.
Airboats and yachts passing very close to the 15 threshold can be a little disconcerting at first!

Overhead Everglades Airpark
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/Florida%20Flying/P1010537_850web.jpg
En route to Key West on an overcast morning so the picture doesn't do justice to the beauty of the area. The top of the photo shows part of 'Ten Thousand Islands' - a chain of small islands and mangrove islets off the coast. If you have time to spare I recommend visiting the Everglades. Fascinating, especially if you're interested in wildlife.

Downwind at Key West International
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/Florida%20Flying/P1010587_850.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/Florida%20Flying/P1010600_web850.jpg
Base leg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/Florida%20Flying/P1010622_web850.jpg
Overseas Highway - part of the famous Seven Mile Bridge


I highly recommend a flight to Key West - fabulous scenery en route and an interesting destination.
It's 2½-3 hours round-trip in a C172. We did some sight-seeing, and a touch and go at Florida Keys Marathon Airport on the way home, so it was 4 hours total.


Tudor Owen

[Tinstaafl]

I was at Everglades Airpark a week or so ago, teaching in a Baron. It's a pretty little airstrip.

Had a charter to Marco Island a couple of months ago. Damn near got carried away by the mosquitoes once the sun set. No fun flying back that night with a plane load of mozzie passengers that got in while the door was open for my passenger to board.

[JC Ops]

Was at NAC in November 2003 when I did my PPL. Reading back through the posts, I must have been very fortunate. I had the best 4 weeks flying + learning experience. Every day was structured with theory then off to put it into practise. The Instructors were IMHO superb, dedicated and genuinely interested in getting you through the course. I learnt on the C152's and they were on the whole in the same condition as some of the flying schools i visited in the UK. I experinced 1 technical issue and when I returned to the ramp I was greeted by the team who listened to my concern and a 'you did the right thing' attitude.

Gutted if what i have read is true as i always hold such fond memories of my time in Naples and the NAC Team.

JC Ops

[wild goose]

People who come to NAC for short periods generally have positive experiences.
The opposite is true for those who do the professional pilot programs.
The owner (Richard) sees these students of cash cows, who are locked into long term commitment with the school.
They are treated like trash by the management and are frequently hit with hidden charges and your charge sheet requires an Accountancy Phd to decode.
If you try to leave you will lose a lot of money. A $500 deposit was increased to $1000 a while back when the prior sum did not prove a sufficient deterrent - if you ask to leave the program you will never see your deposit again, or any money you have remaining in your account.
You are forced to do your time building at NAC, even if you find another place that is cheaper.
There have been students who were forced to fly their IR training, or at least part of it, on a Cirrus, which incurred significant extra cost. This was despite the fact that IR training can be very happily completed without flying a Cirrus.
The JAA ground school was very good (at least up to a few years ago - how it is now, I don't know) but Paul Winner, the excellent chief instructor left, apparently due to the awful people skills displayed by the owner.
Overall - there are plenty of alternatives to NAC - I would recommend EFT also in Florida.
I moved there mid way through my training (yes, I lost my deposit) and I was very happy with every aspect of time spent there.
If anyone wants more specifics, I will be happy to provide them privately.

[mroovek]

I'd agree with everything said about NAC, except for Paul Winner. He is (used to be) rude and arrogant, doing everything Richard demanded from him . I was blackmailed to pay some extra money (I was never explained the reason), otherwise they would cancel my ATPL application. I didn't agree to pay, so I was expelled, my US visa and ATPL application were cancelled. I lost my deposit and, luckily, nothing more. Some other guys, blackmailed the same way, paid the money, some others refused and lost over $5000. Paul helped me a bit in finding another school which would sign me off for the exams, but I guess that was rather a compensation for what he had done (participating in that blackmail).

You can do your training there, providing you're going to accept lots of extra costs/hidden charges, and be treated like sh*t. If you're looking for some quality and atmosphere, go someplace else. Skystead (former Europe-American Aviation), just next door, offers excellent service.

[worldpilot]

Check Out Sunstate Aviation in Kissimmee, Florida, for honest and high Quality training. However, they offer only FAA Certified training courses.

I've being Renting aircrafts there for the past 7 years and never encountered any problems. The prices are good and their services are excellent.

I highly recommend them for hour building.

WP

[Cusco]

People who come to NAC for short periods generally have positive experiences.

My opinion is probably invalid as I was there over 12 years ago:

I went specifically to knock off the FAA/IR and managed it in two weeks (11 flying days including flight test).

So I was there for a short time and must agree with the previous poster's assessment, but I can say nothing about long drawn out PPL courses.

However, for the short time I was there I had no problems with the school: my (hour building) instructor who was a Geology graduate and flipped burgers at night was empathetic to my slow take up (I was pretty old then), and gave up one of his days off when my return home was approaching fast.

I didn't feel I was being used as a cash cow, but did get reminded pretty smartly when my account (topped up every few days in advance) was dropping towards zero.

The a/c were in reasonable nick, were refuelled immediately on request (red 'flag' on prop) and well maintained. Dispatch was swift and effective.

They even arranged at zero notice a FAA Class 3 medical on a Saturday morning, the day before my booked flight home , when my examiner who was waiting to take my flight test refused (wrongly) to fly with me on a CAA medical (my FAA certificate was a 61.75 piggy back so CAA medical was valid).

With a stroppy flight examiner pacing up and down I wasn't about to argue the toss....

I passed anyway.

But then, like I said that was 12 years ago, the year after 9-11: indeed one of the confiscated Hoffman PA 28s was still parked on the NAC apron.....;)

Cusco

[peewit]

I visited NAC in 2006 for the PPL training. I thoroughly enjoyed the experience and the location.
I kept a daily blog of my time there.

Peewit

[VORTIME]

The online feedback in the various threads in accurate. Whatever you do, do NOT prepay!!

[evgheniiemc2]

I agree with all the negative that is said about NAC
I personally had an absolutely terrible experience.
Went out there to do my CFI training and regretted later. Flight instructors and maintenance department do what they can and there no complains about them. However the school management and the front desk could serve as a school book example of how you should not do business. Horrible customer service. For example I had multiple occasions when I could not get the dispatch sheet/ get fuel/ or other supplies: no one would be at the front desk for 30-45 min because they have a meeting. And when you have specific plans 45 min delay can be very frustrating!
Advertised price at the web site is one but when you get the invoice you find out that there is a fuel surcharge of 25. And many other small things that add up and make a bad impression.

[150bugsmasher]

Has anyone else noticed that EASA have revoked NAC's ATO status?


http://easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/PTO_live_activity_list_23_07_16_00%20%28restricted%20%26%20i nvalid%29.DNO_.pdf

[mellessil]

hi I am planing on going to florida to take the professional pilot, I was thinking about joining Nac have changed my mind do to all the critisism. I found your post and was wondering if you could tell me more about EFT. and possiply how it is staying in florida. (i have never been to the US

[davidteen14]

Hello everyone,

I was thinking about going to NAC to do some time building as I have some friends living in Naples and they could easily help me with the housing.
Reading through your comments, I saw that EASA revoked their ATO status and I was wondering wether the hours I would fly there would count or not.
Could you recommend another school that is close to Naples and could be trusted for time building ?

Thank you very much !

[B2N2]

I seriously doubt your timebuilding needs to be at an ATO as it does not constitute 'formal' training.
As far as I know you can go to any ICAO member state for timebuilding.
I would suggest you keep good records though including daily receipts or print out from the billing system so you have additional evidence corroborating the hours in your logbook.

But to answer your question:
There are two other schools on the field in Naples that rent aircraft.
And one on Marco Island if I'm not mistaken.
Then again you may look to rent elsewhere and fly to Naples and get a tie down spot from the airport authority.
Gives you a whole lot more flexibility.
Find the most economical airplane in the state and still fly it out of Naples.

http://www.delandaviation.com/rentals/

* I have no affiliation with the above mentioned school.
Just provided the link as an example of (relatively) cheap rental

I just checked online and tie downs are $200/month for '!non-tenants'.

[Ebbie 2003]

Mellessi - Florida is an easy place to be - a flight school may have some accommodation - if they do use it as it will make things easier and usually a lot cheaper too.

Plenty of hotels/motels since it is a holiday destination.

If you are doing training - do not pay up front (a deposit or otherwise), do not give credit card details until you're comfortable.

If this would be your first flight training you need a training visa and TSA security clearance - if they tell they have a way around it - they are lying!

Once you have an FAA PPL you would no longer need the visa etc. for subsequent training.

If you are doing FAA not EASA/JAR etc. I can personally recommend NS Aviation at North Perry (not the cheapest but good people and best of all complicated airspace/radio work so that will never be a worry!)

[B2N2]

Once you have an FAA PPL you would no longer need the visa etc. for subsequent training.

And whomever told you that is wrong.
There is a gigantic visa thread stickied on top.

[Ebbie 2003]

No I am not wrong about it.

Once you have been checked once and completed your PPL you do not need a training vias or subsequent TSA clearance.

I know because I was told that by the TSA - and here's the biggie - I have returned to the US for other ratings and endorsements - declared it as my reason for visiting the US and had no hassle at all.

The training visa was for ten years - but with seven years left to run on it I was pulled out of the line and had it cancelled - this was on an ordinary (no flying) shopping trip - since that time I have travelled three times for training with out a problem.

I think you are confusing pre-TSA PPL's with those obtained afterwards (mine was in 2011)

If you think I am BS'ing you read

https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/pilots/alien-flight-training-program/aliens-and-non-us-citizens-seeking-flight-training

Also you will need to read

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp&SID=257acc4699ee7253af775fc7e9492e51&r=PART&n=14y2.0.1.1.2

you are looking for what 14CFR 61.31 covers

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp&SID=257acc4699ee7253af775fc7e9492e51&r=PART&n=14y2.0.1.1.2#se14.2.61_131

I don't care if there has been a long discussion on the subject - read the source info - if you think it doesn't say what I maintain, then you are wrong - I know, been there done that!
:cool:

[B2N2]

No reason to quote regulations as the FAA has nothing to do or authority over visa requirements and background checks

The AOPA page you link to mentions you do not need the visa for High Performance endorsement or Complex or Pressurized as mentioned in 61.31

From the AOPA page:

You are seeking flight training inside or outside the United States for U.S. airman certificate under 14 CFR. This rule applies to flight training that you could use toward a recreational, sport, or private pilot certificate; multiengine or instrument rating; or any initial U.S. airman certificate issued by FAA.


You do not need visa's or background checks for a host of things including proficiency training or flight reviews or IPC's.
Anything that leads to the application for a certificate or rating does.

:yuk:

[Ebbie 2003]

You are misreading it mate.

It is about "initial" training in the US.

It does not follow logically that the initial training in the US will be a PPL.

So if I have a, say a Barbadian PPL, I can go to the US for my CPL (note Barbados does not issue CPL's) - that is initial training in the US - though not my initial flight training - in that circumstance I need the TSA check.

It's about getting you in the system.

In the same circumstance where the PPL was obtained in the US - you do not get TSA'd again as you are already in the system.

You seem very happy to deconstruct my comments except the killer one - I have done it several times and I am very upfront about why I am in the US and what I will be doing - the flight school make sure you are legit too as they get it in the neck if they train anyone who is not.

[Katamarino]

I think Ebbie's comments are misleading at best. Even with a PPL, you need to get a visa and TSA clearance again if you want to return and add an instrument rating to that FAA PPL. I know because I have done it. Same applies to multi. PPL, IR, and ME are the magic three that trigger the need for the visa and TSA clearance, for people flying little stuff like us.

[B2N2]

I've tried to tell him that Kat, but he's having none of it.

[davidteen14]

Guys,

Thank you for your replies. I quite didn't get this TSA security check and the VISA thing. Do I need a student VISA or a tourist one for time building? Is time building considered as training, thus it requires a student visa?
Thank you !

[Ebbie 2003]

B2N2

I have done it three times no further TSA check.

Me British, resident in Barbados, British passport, got FAA PPL (no a piggyback) in 2011.

Maybe I have an honest face but the Immigration at the airport weren't, fussed and neither were the flight school.

Did you have a TSA check when you got your PPL or was the IR your first US flight training?

[B2N2]

I'm not entirely sure you have your definitions straight, no offense intended.
In the strictest legal sense 'flight training' means something different then the every day common use of the word.
In legalize it's easy to be confusing in an effort to include all.
Since it's not clear to me if you made a typo or not: TSA/Visa is not required for the license validation aka the piggy back.

Again, no offense but I've been involved with M-1 training visas and their requirements for well over 10 years.
You wouldn't be the first one that fell though the cracks created by confusion and ignorance ( in the side of your immigration officer).

[Ebbie 2003]

Well maybe you're right - but I have a solution - I just turned myself in to the TSA - lets see what they say:)

[ahwalk01]

Interesting perspective though you might find you get refused for a type rating. Just saying.

I did NACs Bahamas tour as advertised in 2015. It went very well. They are interesting characters but all that needed was a checkout, so I don't know on the training side.

Alex.

[B2N2]

Guys,

Thank you for your replies. I quite didn't get this TSA security check and the VISA thing. Do I need a student VISA or a tourist one for time building? Is time building considered as training, thus it requires a student visa?
Thank you !

Time building aka 'recreational flying' is exempt from any visa requirements.
If you're a European resident you're in the Visa Waiver program which means you don't need a visa for any visit of your stay is less then 90 days.
I'd encourage you to look allover the state to rent then park at Naples.

[davidteen14]

Time building aka 'recreational flying' is exempt from any visa requirements.
If you're a European resident you're in the Visa Waiver program which means you don't need a visa for any visit of your stay is less then 90 days.
I'd encourage you to look allover the state to rent then park at Naples.

Thank you for your advices ! Unfortunately, my country, even though is part of the EU for 10 years now, has not been inclued yet in the visa waiver program, which means that I have to apply for a visa anyway.

[ahwalk01]

It can be a B visa for holiday vs an M visa for training if you're just building time. I'd recommend looking north of Orlando too.

[peewit]

I went to NAC in Florida for PPL flight training in 2006.
At the time I did a blog covering the day to day events of my three and a half weeks there. This covered both the good and the not so good.
If you search YouTube for 'flight training at Naples Air Center (NAC)' you will find both a short video of photos that I took, and in the description there is a link to my blog. Obviously things have probably changed a lot since 2006 including the PPL qualification requirements, but you would get a good feel for what it was like as a PPL trainee at the time. I came back without a PPL but got it later in the UK.

[Spode]

I was there last year. I liked it, nice area. The people were friendly. They actually let me off some charges! It was only for a week, but overall was good.

[zdek91]

Hi, does anybody have recents informations about NAC ?
I'd perform my training overthere and all infos I found are from some years ago...