Visiting Plymouth

[InfraBoy]

I have a need to go to Plymouth in a couple of weekends time and as I'm at Kemble on the Sat thought I'd look at extending my flight and flying all the way. But Plymouth is shut - anyone got any ideas about where to land closest to the City? Aircraft, not helicopter!

[AdamFrisch]

I tried to get there last summer in a rented 152 as well (this was when the apt was still open, but charged airline fees for handling), but couldn't find any good airfields nearby. It's like a void around Plymouth. In the end I took the train (which was a whole other bag of worms).

[Fuji Abound]

Newquay or exeter are about your only options in terms of larger airports both about an hour away. Bodmin maybe halves the distance but not everyones cup of tea. There are quite a few farm strips - look at the devon strut web site, but again not for everyone or every aircraft.

Yet another sign of the times sadly. Plymouth was an important hub for this part of the country.

[PH-UKU]

Very sad. Dropped in a couple of years ago for fuel en route Jersey/Waterford. Couldn't have been more helpful. Hope it reopens soon. Heading south this weekend and looking at fuel stop in Exeter/Dunkeswell - any recommendations ?

[AdamFrisch]

The tragic thing with airports is that when they go away, they never come back. It's virtually impossible to build new airports/airfields these days with all the nimbys. Plymouth will never get a new airport. And the town will suffer because of it.

[peterh337]

The Q I would have re Plymouth is why it wasn't retained for GA use.

Instead, the operator basically said they cannot pay the 56 staff on present traffic so they have to close it.

You don't need 56 staff to run a GA airport :ugh:

It was obviously run as a recruitment gravy train.

They could have reduced it by a factor of 10, immediately.

[Fuji Abound]

It would be interesting to know if the ga financial model works either in the short term (in which you spend no money on capital investment) or the long term (where you do).

My guess, and it really is a guess, is that the local population is not large enough to support a sufficient ga fleet.

It is a huge shame but whether some of the larger semi commercial airports will survive without support is debatable. We dont see these facilities worthy of community support in the same way as france, which could make all the difference.

[peterh337]

I don't think any GA airport can survive in a good condition (hard runway and taxiways, no potholes, working lights, etc) and the mandatory ATC without some commercial property rental income. Or a subsidy, which is not going to happen in the UK.

Stuff like an ILS is a big extra cost which can be avoided with a GPS/LPV approach. The problem is that almost nobody (apart from a few pilot forum posters) has the equipment installed and approved to fly LPV and this won't change for many years.

The next step down is to not have ATC and that saves a large bundle of money (the silly useless airport opening hours we have are mostly caused directly by payroll costs) but under the UK rules you then lose the IAPs, which kills off a lot of utility (i.e. income).

[Tagron]

Bolt Head (Salcombe) is a good strip (620m) though possibly subject to the weather vagaries of a clifftop location. It looks to be closest available strip.

Halwell is 480m and therefore not suitable for many. Also it appears to have a planning restriction of 100 h.p. maximum.

Brent Tor (Dartmoor Gliding Club) is longer but is subject to restrictions on powered aircraft due to its location in the Dartmoor National Park, so is unlikely to be available.

Exeter is not cheap - worth checking on the landing and handling charges and the fuel prices before committing.:(

[Fuji Abound]

I have been to Bolt Head albeit a few years ago now; its a lovelly spot and no real issues. As always you need the owners permission.

Exeter always gives a warm welcome. I dont recall the landing fees being too wallet draining and I seem to think if you tell the flying club it is a training flight there is a reasonable discount. Everthing is now run by the club in the port-a-cabin to the right of the main terminal. Naturally there is no problem getting a taxi and I guess the journey is around an hour. Unfortunately that will prove the expensive part. Perhaps if you have time to spare a train or bus is possible but I have no idea.

Peterh337 - yes, that was the subtle point I was making. Sad to say I dont think any airport with reasonable infrastructure can survive on GA alone unless perhaps they have a superb catchment area - and maybe these days not even then. Sad to say at so many places it would seem almost no capital investment takes place. Manston is a good example. It seems to me just enough patch up work has been done over the years to maintain the runway and taxiway. The day will come when this is no longer adequate. Without sunstantial investment I guess that is the end of the road. How many other airports are marking time in the same way? A regular commercial service can just tip the balance but they are few and far between and then everyone complains when they come to town anyway.

I do take your point about approach services and I agree these would be welcome without the current regulatory burden. That said it seems to me a few locals make up their own approaches any way at many of the smaller airports without a service. As we all know there are lots of places it is just as easy to make a cloud break at 700 feet with a visual circuit to land. when conditions demand an even lower cloud break I am guesing the demand falls away dramatically. I am not suggesting it is ideal just reflecting on what probably happens much of the time as matters stand. It is interesting at places like Lydd and Shoreham when the base goes below these sort of levels the traffic all but disappears so in fact there isnt a great deal of demand even where the facility exists. Doesnt help the minority I fully appreciate but unfortunately economics are rarely if ever designed to cater for the minority.

[Peter Gristwood]

Exeter always gives a warm welcome. I dont recall the landing fees being too wallet draining

Used the free landing voucher for Exeter last week. The actual non-voucher fee was £34.80 for the DR220 and the Avgas is probably the highest priced in the country at around £2.50

[diginagain]

Newquay Airport - taxi to Bodmin Parkway - train to Plymouth. Even with the extra distance down to Newquay the train segment is probably going to be quicker than Exeter - Plymouth.

[peterh337]

A regular commercial service can just tip the balanceI do wonder about that.

How much of a landing fee does a commuter turboprop or even a 737 pay? No more than a few hundred quid I am sure.

But look at what you need to provide to get that flight in there.

You need a fire crew big enough to put out the fire.... cost about £1M a year in salaries alone, for daylight cover. Vehicles and maintenance on top of that. A decent looking fire engine costs about £400k and you need several.

You need some sort of official IAP even if the MDA is virtually useless, and of course full ATC.... that's another million or so, with navaid maintenance contracts etc etc.

Then you need the world's supply of yellow jackets and a load of important looking blokes to wear them.... perhaps another half a million in salaries as an absolute minimum, with the "management" required to manage the "security" facilities. The place will spend a few k a year just on stickers telling people about noise levels being above 75dba or whatever :)

Yet, airport managers drool over the prospect of jet traffic. They will kill for a 737, regardless of how much it costs them to support it. And if Donald Trump flies in with some bird, they fall over themselves to roll out the red carpet.

[Fuji Abound]

Peter337 - yes, but is it all the "valued added" bolt ons?

Not sure about Donald's bolt ons mind you - perhaps thats the blond.