Cost per hour (Followed on from previous thread)

[EGKB]

Just spoke to allouette flying club @ Biggin Hill aiport. They offered me £155 p/h for a C172. Where as EFG are offering £197 p/h for a crappy C152, non-negotiable.

I'm 17, so I know the owner who doesn't fly and has never flown before, thought he could milk me over until I pointed out a few fundamental calculation errors after he tried to make me pay in the £200 + region. What a numpty. Juan is a nice guy, he's one of the instructors, so is John. But the owner is a horrible double glazing sales-man.

I'm popping down alouette next week, get a feel for the place, but £155 incl of instructor and landing fees is amazing, especially for EGKB.

Regards,

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi EGKB,

I suggest you should also take a look at the clubs at Lashenden/Headcorn and at Redhill before you make a choice.

All these are long established clubs with a good name and may well offer lower prices.

Regards,

BP.

[EGKB]

Thanks for the advice. I don't drive, and I think the reduction in costs would be lost due to travel expenses.

It costs me £1.40 on my oyster, for a return bus journey from SE London. And one straight bus that goes there!

If I drove I definitely would be more open to suggestion though!

[FlexGate]

You had a look at Surrey & Kent Flying Club at EGKB? It is a fantastic club with highly experienced instructors that aren't there just to build hours to move on.

[jollyrog]

Scary prices.

I expect you'll have to pay landing fees on top of that £155/hour, at £25 a go, there's your train fare to Headcorn and back. Wait until you're doing circuits... £10, £10, £10 (train fare), £10, £10, £10 (train fare), £25 full stop (train fare).

Check the economics carefully before you make your decision, there are no landing fees at Headcorn.

I'm not biased, I did my training at Headcorn and now I pay through the nose to fly my own shareoplane at Biggin. I don't have a car either and travelled to Headcorn for my PPL from South East London on the train, but I don't pay (much) for the train, perk of the job.

[goldeneaglepilot]

Hi EGKB,

Fantastic, your now moaning about the hourly rate...

Have you considered an excellent school in Greece, they even offer accomodation. PPL 46 hours for 4300 euros, they have an understanding of strong minded students (Naaz) I'm certain you will be able to educate them to your ways of doing things!!

The flying in a C152 works out at £75 per hour wet, they even offer accomodation for 600 Euro's for the whole course.

[RTN11]

Have you considered an excellent school in Greece, they even offer accomodation. PPL 46 hours for 4300 euros

Of course, that's only if you pay up front, which you always should :}

[EGKB]

Flying school:

"As you probably know, a tacho hour equates to approx 70 - 80 mins flyingtime depending on the power settings etc that are used in flight. Therefore ourcosts for an hour of flying would be £155.00 approx for a Cessna 172 or aWarrior inc of landing and instructor fee's."

Me:
Soit’s £155 p/h, including instructor and landing fees?

Flying school:
yes approx, availability is generally very good.


So I guess I'll call them an confirm the prices. I HATE ambiguity, why can't people just be straight up and honest...

[Genghis the Engineer]

I can't see what's dishonest about that. Tacho hours are a well understood quantity, and will change the rate per hour depending upon how you fly the aeroplane.

Learning of-course, you have little scope to modify anything, but once qualified this then is very much down to you and with care you can save quite a lot of money.

G

[Weirdfish]

Not only is that as straight up and honest as you're gonna get when there is a mechanical variable, the tacho, in the equation but it's also a decent price this end of the country. I'd stop worrying about being taken for a ride. :)

[Jude098]

Some schools charge brake off to brake on and you pay for sitting at the hold...I did once for 20 mins! Other schools charge "in the air" plus 5 mins either side.

Also some schools include 1 landing whereas others charge for all landings.

Ask them what they charge for.

Jude

[EFG Flying School]

Dear EGKB

This is Anoop Bamrah, I believe I tried to sell you double glazing ;)

Firstly I must apologise for any discrepancy that appeared over pricing.

Secondly, the reason our prices are higher than Allouette are:

1) they are a non-profit organisation;
2) their building rates are considerably cheaper (BIGGIN TODAY | NEWS | (http://www.biggin-hill-today.co.uk/news.cfm?id=19108&headline=%E2%80%98Ridiculous%E2%80%99));
3) We have authority to conduct CPL / Multi / Flight Instructor Courses therefore must take this into account too
4) Full time operations open 7 days a week 0830 onwards
5) 8 aircraft instead of 2

Allouette actually lease aircraft from us and are a great bunch of guys but the set-up of their organisation is slightly different. But FYI this is from their web site:

The actual cost for the aircraft is: £140 per tacho hour (including fuel, etc) + £10 for each touch and go + £22 for a full stop landing at Biggin Hill. Instruction is charged at £30 per hour.

Our Cessna 152 Costs £170 Dual (brakes to brakes), £4 fuel, 22.10 ldg

We aim to maintain competitiveness at all times and offer fantastic standards of training, however the fact that we are on an expensive commercial airport means we are slightly more expensive than Lashenden or Rochester - but this is certainly reflected in the standard of aircraft (C152,PA28,PA28R,PA34-200), our facilities, and the airport.

Please excuse any enthusiasm as intention to welcome you to our school and not to “milk you”. We pride ourselves on the being the airport’s oldest flying school with friends across the country.

In regards to my flying, I have flown for many years however was unable to complete the PPL. Reason being I focused on the business issues and opportunities at hand such as creating the Commercial school offering CPL / ME / FIC / RT / (IR pending) and more recently having opened a JAR Satellite facility in Texas, USA to conduct PPL / CPL / ME / IR / ATPL. In today’s economy, sometimes you have to forego your passion to keep your going concerns aloft.

EGKB, we do wish you all the best with your training (honestly) and hope all goes well. In the meantime we have a charity BBQ on Saturday 7th July at EFG, all are welcome to attend with proceeds going to Aviation without Borders – please contact ops on 01959 540 400.

Thanks

Anoop

[LD Max]

Regarding EFG at Biggin Hill, I have been a long time friend of the club and the person you describe as a "Double Glazing Salesman", Anoop, is one of the nicest most honorable people you could meet. EFG is one of the oldest established flying schools at Biggin and given the opportunity he and the instructors you mention would do anything to make your flight training both successful and pleasurable. Why you would criticise him for not having his own PPL is beyond me. Neither do you! But he has spent his entire career working in the aviation industry and built a successful and reputable business. So what makes you so qualified to doubt his professionalism and to tarnish his good reputation? On the basis you obtained a cheaper quote elsewhere? If that's all that matters, take Goldeneaglepilot's advice and enroll in Greece where they are REAL cheap!:}

Quite obviously, some aircraft are older than others but there is nothing "crappy" about any of their fleet either, which is well maintained on site through their parent company, (who also maintain many of the other training aircraft on the field at Biggin).

At age 17, I susptect your comments are a reflection of your own immaturity and you will soon realise that what goes around in this industry comes around. Your comments are especially hurtful and unnecessary to those of us who know the school well. But that's the nature of a free market. You pays your money and you takes your choice. I just hope you don't wipe out your hourly savings by completing your PPL in 90 hours instead of 45.

[soaringhigh650]

Come to the US to learn. Dual rates approx $170 for a new Cessna 172SP or $145 for an older Cessna 152. Includes fuel. No landing fees. No touch-and-go fees. No sales tax in many states. Subtract approx $60 if solo.