Help a newbie out? Reporting Aviation Incidents

[SwissNewbie]

Hi there

Was wondering if you could help me fill in some gaps.

I just want to know about some internal and external aviation incident reporting systems, organisations, the whole lot :{

For internal - lets just use Qantas - then Qantas would have a procedure in place. If someone could point me in the right direction that would be awesome. Maybe their online?

For external - Organisations like ATSB, ICAO(?) would play a part.

Are there any others?
Cheers, SN.

[4Greens]

Incident reporting is mandatory. Check ATSB website.

[Checkboard]

All aviation companies have internal reporting and investigation departments as part of their Safety Management Systems (which they have to have as part of their Air Operating Certificate). The information is commercially sensitive, as no one wants the press to obtain a report they don't understand and make an issue out of something which really isn't.

You can read reports from the ATSB at their website, though.

[Aimpoint]

Sounds like someone has a uni assignment due - back cannot be bothered doing the research. Why else would a newbie 21 year old be asking such a question?

[flying-spike]

"All aviation companies have internal reporting and investigation departments as part of their Safety Management Systems (which they have to have as part of their Air Operating Certificate). "

Not so, at least not yet. At the moment only RPT operators are required to have an SMS and therefore an internal reporting system. That will change in the next 12 months or so when all "passenger transport",i.e.charter and RPT, operations will require an SMS.

[Checkboard]

Sounds like someone has a uni assignment due - back cannot be bothered doing the research.

Asking a question on the internet IS research ;)

[Howard Hughes]

"Asking a question on the internet IS research"
Source: Checkboard., - Help a Newbie Out? Reporting Aviation Incidents. Retrieved May 2, 2012, from http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/484106-help-newbie-out-reporting-aviation-incidents.html.

[SwissNewbie]

So does internal reporting and investigation come under the safety management system of airlines? Or is there a separate process for that?

My understanding at the moment is that safety management systems try and prevent accidents from happening. I was thinking that internal reporting and investigation would fall under that?

[LeadSled]

Swiss Newbie,
The answer is not straight forward, and is airline specific.

Start with the legal obligation that the pilot in command is primarily responsible for the reporting requirements in the Transport Safety Investigation Act 2003.

In part, this act, and in part the Air Navigation Act 1920 give expression to Australia complying with it obligations under ICAO Annex 13.

Some airlines have an internal reporting system for incidents and accidents (and customized forms) that, when copied to ATSB, satisfies the requirements of the TSI Act, and also satisfies the reporting requirements of a company SMS.

As a matter of interest, for some companies with international operations, the one "customized" reporting form will be set up to cover a variety of mandated incident reporting requirements. ie; The FAA have a separate bird strike reporting requirement, as distinct from a general incident and accident reporting requirements to NTSB.

In my experience, most small non-scheduled operators, who are making valiant efforts to develop SMS, just comply with the TSI Act by using the standard ATSB reporting system, and a copy of the ATSB report becomes part of the SMS record, and the basis for any corrective action under the SMS.

Some interesting legal and practical problems arise when CASA demand access to all these reports, for purposed that may run counter to the confidentiality provisions of the TSI Act, or, for that matter, the proper operation of an SMS.

Where there is no company SMS system (or no company, or a non-AOC operation) there is still the legal reporting obligation of the PIC.

Please don't take this as a comprehensive summary, it is only a suggested starting point.

Tootle pip!!

[SwissNewbie]

Cheers, I think I understand the relationship between the various laws (such as the Transport Safety Investigation Act + Regulation) and reporting to external agencies, as well as how the ICAO through the Chicago Convention has influenced these changes. AFAIK, there are mandatory and voluntary reporting procedures and those are outlined on the ATSB website.

What about for internal procedures?

Taking Qantas as an example, if say a Qantas pilot was involved in an incident, is there any particular process that the pilot would go through? Or am I right in saying that the pilot would just notify nominated official, as per the Act?

Also, say this wasn't a flight operations related incident, how would such a process take place in those circumstances?

Thanks for the responses! Appreciate them.

[LeadSled]

SwissNewbie,
Re-read my previous post, the answer to your question is contained therein.
Tootle pip!!

[SwissNewbie]

I was just hoping someone here would be able to clarify something.

Would the term 'safety system' be interchangeable with the phrase
'safety management system'?

Or could you say a safety system encompasses both the safety management system and quality management system.

SN

[Armchairflyer]

A bit of research will probably reveal that the term "safety system" is rather rarely used and mostly refers to technical devices.

[SwissNewbie]

Sorry, I should probably change it to:

Would the term 'airline safety system' be interchangeable with the phrase
'safety management system'?

[Armchairflyer]

No, because safety management systems are not restricted to the airline business :8.

[SwissNewbie]

I was using the phrase in context, so if someone referred to an airline's safety system, would he or she be referring to an airline's safety management system?

Or would he or she be using it as an umbrella term to which the safety management system and quality management system of an airline fall under?

[Aimpoint]

Doesn't your uni have a discussion board for this kind of question? Or maybe your tutor can help you out instead.

[Armchairflyer]

That would depend on whether the author has defined "airline safety system" and which source he or she is referring to (it doesn't seem to be a usual term).

[SwissNewbie]

Aimpoint, I've looked over your post history and you seem to have some sort of prejudice against younger people. Cut the attitude. All I asked was a question. If you don't know the answer, or don't want to answer it, there's no need for you to comment.

Also, your generalisation about me trying to avoid doing research was unwarranted. My original post related to whether someone could point me in the right direction with respect to airline materials. What I've found is that the majority of these materials can only be accessed through the airline's intranet.

As someone has already posted, these documents are not usually open to the public, so I came here looking for advice or ways in which I could access the material relating to SMS and QMS. I have posted the question on my university discussion forum and I am waiting for a response.

My sincere condolences if my question ruined your day, or has kept you in some kind of perpetual annoyance towards youths.

Nevertheless, if anyone here can help in answering the question, I would be very thankful.

[Armchairflyer]

Regarding your original question, you might find some helpful answers in chapter 4 "Recording and reporting of safety data" of Wells & Rodrigues' "Commercial aviation safety".

[LookinDown]

The requirement to have in operation a Safety Management System doesnt just apply to Airlines, AOC holders and /or RPT.

Some sport aviation operations are already required to have an established SMS.

[Aimpoint]

Aimpoint, I've looked over your post history and you seem to have some sort of prejudice against younger people. Cut the attitude.

Umm...no. No prejudice against younger people at all, just slackers who don't do the research. How did the rest of your classmates get the info required?


Also, your generalisation about me trying to avoid doing research was
unwarranted. My original post related to whether someone could point me in the right direction with respect to airline materials.


And you asked some very specific questions. Hope you reference the authors when you write your paper. Not sure if pprune is going to get you many marks for research though, better off doing some proper research through online academic journals. Just checked the journals I can access through my uni and had found a number of good sources within five minutes. Yes, I am bored...


My sincere condolences if my question ruined your day, or has kept you in
some kind of perpetual annoyance towards youths.


Don't worry, you didn't ruin my day or alter my attitude towards youfs - but you did maintain my annoyance towards students who can't do research properly but will claim to be "experts" when they graduate. It's taken you a month to get some of the previous answers, time must be ticking away now...

[Greedy]

Swissnewbie,
Is your research going to include how the systems deal with a junior pilot reporting a senior pilot or airline management for breaches of CAO's CAR's ?

This is an area where the "self regulation model" implemented by CASA breaks down. Findings can be manipulated and skeletons locked in cupboards by those in power.

Greedy