Differences in landing technique between 320/321?

[Miguel.]

Good morning!

Recently I have been flying the 320 and 321. From my experience, whenever I have been landing the 321. The landing often results in a positive/firm landing. Recorded a 1.9G load very recently :ugh:. Yet landing the 320 seems far easier for me with smooth touchdowns. I feel that I am applying the same technique for both aircraft and taking little account of how heavy or light the weight is.

Wondering if any of you seasoned veterans can shed any advice on landing techniques and handling?

Thanks

[hetfield]

That's funny. As far as I remember landing the 321 in comparison with 320/319 was fun, almost like an A340, especially when heavy.

[Cough]

Are you floating either type, or does the landing generally happen after a short flare?

[eckhard]

I've only just started flying the Airbus (319/320/321) and so what follows is based on minimal experience on type; however, it could be the small difference in eye-height that may be to blame. In the 321, your eyes will be a little higher above the runway on touchdown than in the 320 (due to the greater distance between the cockpit and main wheels). Another factor may be the flap setting. Are you using the same for both types consistently?

[Orange Baron]

Should be the same technique, try flaring slightly earlier if you are constantly hitting it harder :)

Maybe your worrying to much about hitting the tail....?

[Dream Land]

Once you gain a little experience, you'll probably prefer the 321, of course there is no single techniques to use in every condition, but here's a starting point:

Try flying the GS to 100 FT, then you might go slightly lower, as in 3reds1 white, at 30FT closing thrust levers with a slight stick up to arrest the decsent, but before the mains touch, do a de-rotation the remainder of the manuvre, you will learn to roll the airplane on very softly once perfected, I also advocate having your feet all the way up onto the brakes, not heels on the floor like other jets.

Just my suggestions, others will disagree, good flying!:ok:

[Don Coyote]

Ensure you maintain the glide slope and just flare 5-10 feet earlier for the 321; everything else remains the same.

[dmacnz]

I find that the A321 needs a shallower lower flare with a slight reverse flare at the end.
Maybe just try keeping the thrust levers in CLB until you flare before selecting idle.

[Miguel.]

Thank you for all your input. It all helps.

I think this is it! I am flaring a little too late it seems. Usual technique is crossing the runway at about 50' (sound right?). Looking at the aiming point. At 30', holding the landing attitude and bringing the thrust levers to idle. Maintaining the flare until touchdown.

The past few landings, I've found that by the time, my mind and hand coordinate. It turns out, I am flaring at 20'. Which in turn is too late and also, I am more fixated at the area directly ahead of me and not towards the end the end of the runway. The landings have been during night so another thing was the night effect of the runway gushing towards me. Where I recorded a 1.9G landing, the PNF called 4 whites as I was crossing the runway.

What I also need help with is, how should I be adjusting and modifying my flare, thrust techniques when being heavy, light, tailwind, headwind conditions?

What do you guys mean by reverse flare/ de-rotation?

Thank you again.

[Ollie Onion]

I agree, always found I got nice smooth landing on the 321 by using a slightly flatter flare. On the 320 I make a nice positive flare, on the 321 still a positive flare but to a couple of degrees LESS nose up than the 320. I have done this since a training captain told me a really positive flare in the 321 results in you 'driving' the main gear onto the runway. But please don't mistake this as not flaring, I agree with the above, start the flare 5 seconds or so before you wood on the 320 and just maintain a slightly flatter picture out the window.

As for the thrust, don't be in a hurry to 'chop' the power, just a nice steady retardation starting at 30' until touchdown, if you chop it then watchout :sad:

Generally at light wieghts I start taking power off at 30', the heavier I get the later I leave the power, so if I am near MLW I don't touch the thrust leavers until well into the flare, passing through 20'.

Likewise, with a strong headwind I leave the power in slightly longer, with a tailwind I take the power back at 30'.

Thing is you just get a 'feeling' for this stuff. Still doesn't stop you getting a 'banger' of a landing every now and then :{ Experience will just mean that you go for longer periods between bad landings :}

[hetfield]

What do you guys mean by reverse flare/ de-rotation?

Releasing the stick or even push a bit (old 727 trick)?

[Dream Land]

De-rotation - that's what I call it when I push the side stick forward, I don't pull back on the stick to a certain attitude and wait for contact, consider that the actual CG is probably forward of the MLG, so as I ease the side stick forward, it's actually reducing the vertical descent of the gear while lowering the nose, thereby making a very soft touch down.

I learned this technique from my British counter parts that don't try to do the soft kiss landing, they are more concerned in putting the aircraft on the available runway, and getting off that runway as soon as practical. So they basically wait to the last minute to flair, then complete the landing by pushing forward on the stick, amazingly smooth with practice, and no runway wasted using my old technique.

[Bearcat]

Mother of god, a 1-9g landing.......printer must have been spewing its guts out after that. That's an almighty wallop.

My memory of the 321 was it was a curse when heavy. Trying to select flap 1 in gusty weather and heavy with a green dot of 221 kts and close to the limit speed..... Also remember crap roll control.

Flying by numbers will eventually end in tears and chopping the power early on a heavy 321 will definitely. As per previous I used a flat flare, sometimes I chopped the power right down to the ðeck with loads of retard retard stuff and I never flew plus 5....plus 7 ish for me.

[PantLoad]

Nonsense....

Fly it right by the book. Of the 320-series,
the 321 is the nicest to land.

Don't pay attention to rubbish. Read the
book. It's correct.

[Natstrackalpha]

Pantload has it in one, albeit, brief.

approach, approach, approach, 100, 50,

30 hold att

20 pitch up 2 degrees - judged visually. -and- wherever "retard" comes in - do it.

Mains on Select Rev idle. Place nose on runway, apply forward press on the nose as you apply full reverse, don`t let nose ride up

Don`t float. Prefers to be flown on. Tiny bounce, hold att.

Big bounce, go around, a/c may touch down again after TOGA selected.

[misd-agin]

If you set a landing attitude as the plane slows you will develop a sink rate. It takes a tiny amount of additional back force to prevent the sink rate from developing.

If you're close to touchdown the sink rate, and it's effect on the landing, is barely noticeable. If you're slightly higher it becomes a greater impact resulting in a less desireable touchdown.

Don't know about the Airbus but non FBW a/c need additional back force to overcome the loss of nose up force as the power is reduced. Again, very subtle.

[FatFlyer]

I was once shown the "push the stick forward to lift the main wheels as they touch" technique on a 737 by a captain who always did very smooth landings.
I tried it once and did a very gentle landing, with a bit of mis-judgement, the next attempt was nearer a crash.
It may work for those of you practised in the technique, however, I would suggest caution in using methods not in the flight crew training manual, especially with someone new on type and having issues with landings. Airbus allow release of back pressure but advise against pushing the stick forwards in the flare.
We have just replaced the undercarriage on an airbus after a landing which makes your 1.9g seem gentle. Forward movement of the stick is believed to be a factor in this incident.

[Miguel.]

Morning people,

Again landing the 320 yesterday. Landed very nicely with a smooth touchdown.

The training captain suggested I should land a 321 in F3 config as opposed to flap full. His exact words were, because it's easier to land in F3. What are your thoughts and opinions on this?

Thanks!

[Ollie Onion]

Flap 3 works well, you just have to be very very aware of the 'tailstrike' considerations. Your nose attitude will be that little bit higher than with flap full, so if you combine that with a 'normal' flare then you risk banging the tail.

[EMIT]

What you state in post 8 (at 06:22) is really important: more important than numbers like , do I flare at an auto callout of 30 or 20, is the use of your peripheral vision to judge height and descent rate.

During the approach you look a lot inside to stay on the numbers (glideslope and speed) and you look outside at the touchdown point.
However, as you are close to the threshold (when you are between 100 and 50 ft) you must shift your vision towards far down the runway and keep it there. You will then be able to judge how quickly the ground rises towards you and be best able to judge the flare maneuvre. Do not anymore shift your vision to inside, because that will break the continuity of your visual flare appraisal.

Many times, when evaluating a somewhat rough landing, you will realize with hindsight that you have screwed up this shifting of the point where your vision is aimed at. This can happen after a long flight (fatigue, reacting just a tad too slow), or when you look inside to check speed or thrust setting once more, just to be sure.

Finally, 1.9 g is indeed firm, but remember that a greaser is not a criterion for a good, safe landing, according to the manufacturers of commercial airplanes.

[Stuck_in_an_ATR]

Another little trick you might try out: if you don't "see the ground" yet (ie. unable to judge height/sink rate), listen to the radalt auto-call outs and adjust the flare accordingly. The faster they go, the higher the sink rate, the bigger flare you need and vice-versa...

This technique worked very well for me during my line-training. Before Airbus conversion I had flown a certain turboprop (as my nickname suggests:)), which had a totally different landing technique (low, shallow flare, with power in until just before touchdown). The proper "picture" during flare on the 'Bus initially seemed very unnatural to me, so I cheated a bit using the radalt call-outs to judge the height/sink-rate. After some time I got used and started "seeing it" - so will you. :)

[autoflight]

What do you guys mean by reverse flare/ de-rotation?

If you are still getting the hang of 321 touchdown, it might be wise to delay any thought of de-rotation until you have a bit more time to adjust your normal technique. I am retired with a lot of time on 320 and 321. Have de-rotated on both and also 727-200 with usually good results, but a stabilised approach with a conventional flare is recommended.

You probably noticed that in 320 and 321 sim and line training it was not taught. You should wonder why.

In RAAF Caribous during Vietnam war, it was sometimes practice to select full reverse power before touchdown. Also something that was not taught but could give a great result. But I have seen one prop stuck in forward thrust during the flare and landing roll on a short and narrow strip. De-rotation is not quite in this league, but I'm sure you can get the message. Best to stick with the established standard where possible.