Italy 48h -> 45 days finally approved

[achimha]

News on the AOPA Italy site (http://www.aopa.it/infoleggi.asp?TipoInfo=2&IDInfo=222) says that the house of representatives and the senate has approved the amendment. The remaining step is just publication which is a pure formality.

This means that the tax on foreign registered airplanes only applies after a consecutive stay of 45 days and does not apply when the stay is due to maintenance.

The tax has also been lowered for those affected. For us non Italians, this should fully address the issue. For those who live in Italy... still tough times!

(PS: the fact that the senate as 2nd chamber has also approved is only mentioned in the Italian message)

[peterh337]

Does this mean that an Italian based N-reg merely needs to pop abroad once every 44 days?

The thing about undergoing maintenance remains a bit dodgy, because if you go AOG at some airport and arrange by yourself to obtain replacement parts (which you may have to do because many/most GA-usable airports don't have maintenance facilities) then you won't be officially undergoing maintenance. You are just parked there.

It's an improvement but it's a poor outcome.

The exact definition of "maintenance" would be interesting. Is it merely a status of not being airworthy, or do you have to be registered with an Italian maintenance firm?

[achimha]

As always, such subtle aspects are subject to implementation decrees issued by the administration. At one point, they will have to come up with a comprehensive definition of what "maintenance" entails, otherwise peterh337 will move to Italy and change a spark plug on his TB20 every 45 days to avoid the tax... One could also open a maintenance shop that specializes in eternal maintenance, interrupted by regular test flights conducted by the owner...

I think the outcome is a good one for foreigners. We are basically completely unaffected by the tax and we can continue to visit Italy with our airplanes. Not much we should complain about I'd say.

[peterh337]

Unless you have a breakdown as I described, which doesn't involve an Italian maintenance shop.

After all, they are hardly going to permit self-declaration of non-airworthiness by the owner :)

This is a re-run of the mad French and UK proposals (2004/2005) to impose long term parking limits on foreign reg planes. The Italians don't seem to have applied the smallest amount of intelligence to it.

Personally I would worry about flying somewhere where such a vague reg is on the books - especially Italy where the rules vary with the time of day.

Otherwise, what you have worked out is IMHO one of the main reasons why nobody has ever introduced any long term parking limits on foreign reg planes ;) Well, until now, in Italy :ugh:

[AfricanEagle]

Peter, you don't want to come to Italy so please step down and let other pilots enjoy flying here. :ugh:

[peterh337]

I've got a couple of questions for you, AfricanEagle:

1) How exactly is the wording of "undergoing maintenance" (or whatever) worded and defined?

2) Do you know if Italy has applied for one of the two available EASA FCL derogations? I am compiling a list of countries that have done so here (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/easa/index.html) and would appreciate any links and if possible translations.

Many thanks :ok:

[stickandrudderman]

:)Who's going to be the first guinea pig?

[peterh337]

Who's going to be the first guinea pig?Not this chap:

Peter, you don't want to come to Italy so please step down and let other pilots enjoy flying hereI bet :)

I like Italy, but most airports there don't even have avgas which they will sell to foreigners and in the GA flying context just a few minutes over the water (less in the case of Slovenia) is a pure aviation heaven called Croatia, where "stuff just works", airports do what they say they will do, communicate normally using normal means, etc. and haven't got any :mad: laws in place which might bite you, or they might not, or they might might :)

[Dg800]

1) How exactly is the wording of "undergoing maintenance" (or whatever) worded and defined?

You can find the relevant excerpt here:

http://www.aeci.it/wp-content/uploads/Conversione-in-legge-d.l.-n.-16_2012.pdf

The part I love the most is the one about having to pay any tax due before leaving the country. Who's going to stop you if you don't, the Italian Air Force? :rolleyes:
And what if the aircraft is based permanently in Italy, does the tax accrue indefinitely until the aircraft actually leaves the country and/or the owner dies of old age? ;)

What a bunch of amateurs. :yuk:

Ciao,

DG800

[achimha]

DG800: a law bill rarely addresses all subtleties. This is why the administration then issues implementation details, basically their interpretation of the room for interpretation. Questions like "what is maintenance" or "how to pay the tax" are typical topics for such implementation orders. The law bill doesn't look overly amateurish to me.

[Dg800]

Yeah, right, like they did for the previous version of 14-bis. The implementation details they issued amounted basically to: "Here is our IBAN number: XXXXX".
Incidentally, "what is maintenance" is exactly defined in the bill. "How to pay the tax" has been addressed previously, unless the IBAN number changes there will surely be no further communications from the administration.

The whole thing suffers from a total lack of common sense, all it will accomplish is to scare people away from Italy (like we need more of that) while hardly bringing in any tax revenue at all.

Ciao,

DG800

[peterh337]

What is "maintenance" defined as?

all it will accomplish is to scare people away from Italy (like we need more of that) while hardly bringing in any tax revenue at all.

I agree 100%.

[achimha]

I agree 100%.

I don't. A 45+ day tax should hardly be a concern to visiting pilots in my opinion. Not that the whole process was any good PR for Italy though...

What does keep pilots away is the sub-standard ATC and lack of AVGAS especially when compared to its neighbors.

[peterh337]

I agree 45 days is fine for visitors, but what about the mechanical breakdown scenario? I have already explained in detail how this can bite you.

I've been to only a few Italian airports but IIRC none of them had GA maintenance facilities. So how can you be undergoing maintenance?

It's also one thing to have such a law on the books in say Germany, compared to Italy.

Aviation debts can be a big hassle if you are an aircraft owner. If you just rent then you don't need to care; you can walk away from anything including prop strikes ;)

In 2008, after I flew to Tempelhof (like half of Euro GA :) ) I never got billed for the IFR procedures, but many others did. I went to some effort to check that I did not owe "Germany" any money which they could one day bite me for, and pretty easily I got a fax from the DFS confirming no money was due as of that date, and I carry this fax in the back of the plane.

Now try to get such a confirmation from Italy...

[Squeegee Longtail]

I am re-visiting this thread as I will be commuting to East coast Italy throughout the next couple of years.
If I were to fly my G-reg VAT paid a/c to Fano and have to leave it longer than 45 days perhaps due icing level over the Dolomites in winter, would my a/c be subject to an Italian tax? or is this just for non-EU VAT paid types?
If so, surely this is unconstitutional within the scope of the EU.

[achimha]

45 days is a lot of time to think about your options :-)

Surely the EU does not preclude its member states from coming up with new taxes and fees -- as long as they don't interfere with free trade. When you're on Italian soil (+ airspace), you're subject to Italian laws and regulations.

The Italian aircraft tax is a luxury tax and has nothing to do with VAT. Whoever operates a private aircraft, yacht or luxury car is subject to that tax. The bill is called "Salva Italia" and we're all for saving Italy, aren't we?

[peterh337]

If I were to fly my G-reg VAT paid a/c to Fano and have to leave it longer than 45 days perhaps due icing level over the Dolomites in winter, would my a/c be subject to an Italian tax?

Yes, as it currently appears.

But remember that icing happens only in IMC, so you should not get stuck in Italy for 45 days :)

My own concern would be going AOG and waiting for some parts. The Italian reg contains an exemption for a plane undergoing maintenance but that presumably means you have to book it with an Italian MO, which

- is perhaps the last thing you want to do ;)

- may not be possible if there are no maint facilities where you ended up

It is an utterly stupid move, borne out of desperation coupled with being pig-ignorant about the options which "rich" people have when it comes to asset mobility.

Mind you, with the Lib Dems now proposing a 1% annual property tax over £2M house value, totally inequitable stupidity (taxes in no way connected with actual ability to pay them) is no longer confined to southern Europe :ugh:

Some Italian pilots report that nobody is collecting this, but foreigners are always easy prey. I was hassled for ages by some pl0nkers at LIEE admin, despite everything having been paid at the time. I am sure a local would have had it sorted in no time at all... and you may get impounded at some future date. Aviation debts (real or alleged) are a funnily "sticky" thing.