Biggin Hill vs Southend

[DiamondC]

I'm hour-building and looking for suggestions on whether Biggin Hill or Southend would be a better option? I'm approx equal travelling distance from both.

Any suggestions on which has more flyable days, complex procedures (e.g. noise abatement), likely delays, "hidden" costs, etc would be helpful.

[The500man]

My preference would be Biggin. There are some non-equity groups there with a variety of aircraft which would be suitable for hour building. I think Southend is a bit more expensive for landings so there's that as well. It really comes down to what aircraft you want to fly and at what price. Maybe check the Flyer forum for shares; they have a dedicated section.

[RedsBluesGreens]

Assuming you want to do a PPL...

Landing fees at Southend are £24, but are discounted to £22 for clubs. Some unscrupulous clubs bump up the landing fees to make a profit on them, so do check that out with each club. Even at £22 it is still quite expensive, especially when doing circuits. I'm not sure how much Biggin is, but you're getting the same service and they're both well-run fields.

Although I trained at Southend and am based here, I have flown into Biggin on a number of occasions. While Southend may be a little busier now that we have easyJet, waiting times at holds, taxiing, etc aren't really that long. On the occasions I have flown into Biggin it has been a nightmare, with private jets everywhere and long queues whilst waiting for all the citations to take off. Maybe that was just an exception?

There are quite a few group a/c at Southend, you just need to know who to ask! Many of them are hangared on the north side of the airfield so are out of sight from the terminal.

I guess the other thing for Biggin/Southend is where you live. If you live in Essex, I doubt you'll want to do the QEII bridge over to Biggin every weekend and vice versa if you live in Kent.

As is so often the case on this forum, do your homework, go with a good school, and regardless of where you train, you'll be fine.

[aluminium persuader]

If you're between the two, what about Stapleford & Damyn's Hall too? Also poss North Weald?

[ppl_fresher]

I've flown from both (although mainly Biggin). Both have excellent ATC, nothing particularly difficult procedure-wise, and instrument approaches. Weather-wise it often seems that when Southend is fogged in, Biggin is above the weather, and when Biggin is below ILS minima, Southend is still well above (obv only a help if you have an IMC/instrument rating).

Pros:
Southend: not as busy (especially on weekends), good access to open airspace.
Biggin: Pretty good availability of shares and rental aircraft, A few very good onsite maintenance firms, circuits are cheaper

Cons:
Southend: the above mentioned issue with fog (maybe I've just been unlucky), marginally more expensive landing fees
Biggin: Sometimes you will have a long hold for departure while ILS traffic arrives/departs and the circuit is full

What about Stapleford? Or Rochester if you're south of the river?

[tom6326]

I have flown from both (Much more Biggin) I prefer it, its busy and flying around the circuit with IFR training deffo makes you more sharp. I think the longest I have ever been at the hold is 10 mins and that was when they were using 03 which makes merging IFR and VFR traffic harder because of the circle to land procedures.

[peterh337]

I'm hour-building

If this means just flying around to pack a logbook then surely the best thing is to base near some strip and just fly around in the cheapest plane in which logging counts towards your purpose.

[jollyrog]

If you're renting on the tacho, surely delays on the ground are just what you need?

[The500man]

Delays on the ground are okay when hour building, it's all loggable! ;)

A cheaper alternative would be to lease from say Big Red Kite (http://www.bigredkite.com/) and base out of the channel islands or somewhere where a tank of gas is cheap.

North Weald is good too. The flying group there is very easy going and plans group convoy fly-outs which might suit you to fly with more experienced pilots.

[peterh337]

As an aside, what could one be hour building towards?

Not the ATPL surely because that needs 500hrs in a MP airplane, which would cost you something like £5,000/hr to hour build yourself. Is it the other 1000 hours of the ATPL? Normally that is logged after one gets an airline job.

[The500man]

You need 100 hours P1 before you can get a CPL. That's generally what people hour build for. You don't need an ATPL to fly as an FO (for example) with an airline you only need it for command, so you can get the 500 hours wide body on the job.

[Sir George Cayley]

The recent arrival of easyJet at Sarf'end on Mud may impact on access to the circuit at times and extended routings to avoid wake turbulence may influence your choice.

For me it's horses for courses. If you have aspirations to a career in commercial aviation then SEN might be better.

If you want just leisure flying then some of the alternate suggestions are worth consideration.

Or you could wait for Boris Island ;)

SGC

[PompeyPaul]

Southend has the benefit of having the continent relatively close, Oostende for a trip to Brugges :ok:. Biggin has Heathrow to the north, and Gatwick to the south, so it's 10 mins of flying before you can start to go anywhere.

[DiamondC]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far. I have my PPL and I’m hour-building towards my CPL as The500man says. Ideally, I’d like to make the best use of those hours and enjoy them too. I’m looking for somewhere with a Tower (good practice), tarmac runways (less likely to be closed due to runway condition?), and extended opening hours on weekdays (ideally I’m going to do some hours after work in summer as well as on weekends). I will look into North Weald some more – thanks for the tip.

I’m actually in East London and although Biggin Hill is geographically closer the travel time seems to be about the same to Southend (I’ll be testing it this weekend, and neither airport requires crossing the QEII Bridge). There’s also a train directly from the station near me (Liverpool Street) to Southend Airport if I don’t have the car (I share it with a friend) whereas Biggin involves tube, train, and bus/taxi.

I was thinking about buying a share but not sure if there would be issues with availability, either because other people were using it or if it goes tech. A flying club / school with multiple aircraft of the same type might mean more availability.

[peterh337]

Southend suffers less from bad wx than Biggin, and is H24 which can be a huge plus.

[RedsBluesGreens]

If you're hour building, I believe Stapleford have some old 152s, I think they were about £70/hr a couple of years ago...