PPL SEP revalidation

[aviador63]

I need to revalidate my SEP. i would like to do it using the 12 hours method.
I have been flying with a friend who has a share in a VLA aeroplane in Spain. For insurance purposes he needs to sit in the left seat,however, I have been logging the flights as PIC because I was the sole manipulator of the controls and in the flight plans sent to EASA I was stated as the pilot in command. My question is: do I need to certify the hours somehow or a photocopy of the logbook entries should be sufficient? How could I certify the hours?

I hope someone can help me!
Thanks in advance

[mad_jock]

Who was signing the tech log and did the insurance allow you to be PIC?

And what did your mate log?

It doesn't really matter what you put on the eurocrontol stuff the who signed the tech log controls who is PIC.

[S-Works]

You have opened a bag of worms here...

Firstly is the VLA in the Microloght or SEP category?

Secondly,where does the POH say the PIC must sit?

Thirdly what did your friend log?

If the insurance required your friend to be in the LHS then it would indicate that you were not insured to be PIC which means if you logged the flights as PIC regardless of whether you were sole manipulator of the controls you did so illegally. The reverse of this, as an examiner I do whol flights as PIC without touching the controls.

The only way you can log the time is if you were legally entitled to be commander of the aircraft which includes being properly covered by the Insurance.

[Whopity]

ANO Art 7979 (1) Every member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom and
every person who engages in flying for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or
renewal of a licence under this Order must keep a personal flying log book in which
the following information must be recorded
(3) The information recorded in accordance with paragraph (2) must include:
(a) the date, the places at which the holder of the log book embarked on and
disembarked from the aircraft and the time spent during the course of a flight
when the holder was acting in either capacity;
(b) the type and registration marks of the aircraft;
(c) the capacity in which the holder acted in flight;So long as you meet the above requirements, the hours count. Insurance, flight plans etc are irrelevant. If the information in your log is fraudulent then there are appropriate fines. If the aircraft is above 450 Kgs and the other pilot didn't log it as PIC there is no problem. Even hours flown in a stolen aircraft would count because the requirement only measures "experience"

[Genghis the Engineer]

Indeed.

Only one person can be PiC at any given moment, and they can log it. Signing the tech log is one common indicator, but the crew logbooks are the normal source of this information.

For many years there was no legal requirement for insurance in private aircraft anyhow in the UK, and I'm sure there still is in some other countries. So insurance is a red herring.

And even an illegal flight is still a flight and has a PiC; else who is there for the CAA to prosecute for it?

G

[aviador63]

1.VLA is a class "A" aeroplane
2.You can be pilot in command sitting in the right hand side (instructors log time as PIC in the right hand seat).
3.My friend logged the hours as P2

I don't think I have done anything illegal logging as PIC. What kind of paperwork do you need to send to revalidate the SEP rating?

[S-Works]

Your friend can't log the hours as P2 as a VLA is not a multicrew aircraft. So if you were logging time as P1 then he can log nothing.

Yes you can log time in the RHS as long as the aircraft does not require the commander to be in a certain seat. Many aircraft do. Instructors are a separate case and you have not led us to believe that you are an Instructor and this was an Instructional flight.

I would however question if you were actually insured to be commander, from what you have said I would suspect that you were not if the insurance company required your friend to occupy the LHS for insurance purposes.

Aside from the issues discussed above and to answer your question, you do the 12hrs in the last 12 months, 1hr Instructional flight and then take a completed SRG1119 to an Examiner who will check your licence, logbook and medical and sign the rating.

[aviador63]

where does it say that in a class A aeroplane with dual controls you can't have two people, one acting as PIC and one acting as P2?

[Genghis the Engineer]

I would however question if you were actually insured to be commander, from what you have said I would suspect that you were not if the insurance company required your friend to occupy the LHS for insurance purposes.

I agree.

But, that may make the flight uninsured, or even illegal in many countries, but doesn't technically stop him being PiC.

G

[madlandrover]

An aircraft is certified for a set number of flight crew. In the case of the huge majority of light aircraft, the required flight crew is one. Therefore it is not a multi-crew aircraft, so P2 is not relevant.

[S-Works]

Genghis, I think you will find that we are actually in agreement. Being in command and being legal to be in command are subtly different. However I would not want to find myself arguing the point with the relevant CAA.

where does it say that in a class A aeroplane with dual controls you can't have two people, one acting as PIC and one acting as P2?

Where shall we start on that one.....

Co-pilot:
“Co-pilot” means a pilot operating other than as pilot-in-command, an aircraft for which more than one pilot is required under the list of types of aeroplanes (see Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.220) or the type certification of the aircraft, or the operational regulations under which the flight is conducted, but excluding a pilot who is on board the aircraft for the sole purpose of receiving flight instruction for a licence or rating.

(v) A co-pilot acting as pilot-in- command under the supervision of the pilot-in-command on an aeroplane on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aeroplane or as required by JAR–OPS provided such pilot-in-command time under supervision (see (c)(5)) is countersigned by the pilot-in-command.

I am not seeing any VLA aircraft certified to require multi pilots. If I have missed it please can show me?