How much do you pay per hour?

[EGKB]

I'm based at Biggin Hill Airport and it works out at £187 p/h. What does that sound like to you? Anyone else at EFG flying school mind telling me how much they pay..

[Genghis the Engineer]

I've never flown out of Biggin, but that looks a little expensive to me.

I work at Cranfield, and the school I tend to fly with here charges £150/hr dual for a C150, C170 for an AA5 and £175 for a C172 (+ £125pa membership).

Cranfield is a similar sized airport to Biggin, and the most expensive place to fly around here.

G

[EGKB]

Brakes on to brakes off - I still don't understand how it works.
Including Landing fees, it's a C152

+ £3.48 charge, can't remember what it was, fuel surplus or something.

[172driver]

So you are telling us you are paying 200 quid per hour for a 152???

:eek::eek::eek:

[Dufo]

99€/h for Diamond DA20, which includes one landing, fuel and VAT. Brakes off/on, based in Ljubljana, Slovenia (LJLJ).

[EGKB]

£187p/h

Brakes on/off
Inc Landing Fees + Fuel Surcharge
C152

EFG flying school is were I'm training.

[The500man]

I used to pay £145 an hour for a C152 at EFG using the ten hour packs including the instructor. According to the website they charge £165 now. I personally didn't think it is was worth paying extra to use the Warriors, which also have higher landing fees. I assume that's what you're flying though at £187 p/h? That's the same as the price they are quoting for the 10 hour packs online.

There are definitely cheaper places to train at, but to be honest Biggin is a very good training environment, and EFG have well looked after aircraft.

EDIT: Just saw your latest post! Since you are including the landing fee, which is £22 or so, and any fuel surcharge, on a C152 that is a decent price!

Here's a link to their charges page. (http://www.flyefg.co.uk/courses/rates.php)

[Swerve550]

I pay £160 p/h at Panshanger in a PA-28. I flew briefly at Biggin and it worked out, over four hours, in between £185 and £215 p/h in a PA28 Warrior. And that, would you believe, was with discounted instruction based on putting down £1k in advance.

I expect landing on the moon is cheaper.

[EGKB]

Thanks guys, I know Biggin Hill is an expensive airfield so I budgeted accordingly

[Floppy Link]

Bleeding 'ell ... First time I rented a 152 it was £22 an hour. Now I feel old.:\

[DavidWoodward]

Ikarus C42 or EV-97 is £59ph with fuel with a £35 direct debit per month. I do love microlights ;-)

[Poeli]

That's a lot of money. I do wonder, what's the limit for most people? I can't even afford the prices now:O

[a4fly]

The 500man:

I see that their prices include vat at !5%!! They must be REALLY expensive now!!

[EGKB]

Wow! That's cheap 59p/h + 35p month DD

Also £187p/h isn't affordable. I'm broke whilst learning to fly. Nearly 98% of my monthly wage is going to flying, currently living at home otherwise it'd take me 10 years to do it lol

[Genghis the Engineer]

Ikarus C42 or EV-97 is £59ph with fuel with a £35 direct debit per month. I do love microlights ;-)

AA5, £45/month, £90/hr

Mainair Blade, £35/month, fuel.

Okay, I had to buy the shares, but even then - as you say, renting group A is a rapid route to bankruptcy.

Equally however, in either microlights or group A - learning is a lot more expensive than afterwards. i'm sure you're not paying £59/hr including an instructor.

G

[dannyboy11]

£136 per hour in a pa38 from EGNT inc instruction.

[FullWings]

Yesterday, 8hrs flying on 4L of fuel, so about £1/hr. (50p/hr each as there were two of us.)

[PompeyPaul]

That's expensive. Flying is these days though not let up in AvGas prices means it's going to continue to be.

Although I saw a packet of cigarettes is £8 now days. I used to smoke, when I smoked, a packet a day plus a few more at the weekend, around 8 packets a week. That's about £64 a week. Over a month that's around £256. So smoking is still working out more expensive then going flying for an hour and a bit each month.

Save money. Stop smoking, start flying.

[Poeli]

Lol Fullwings, what did you do, go gliding in a motorglider/self starter?

[The500man]

prices include vat at !5%!!

I like the sound of 5% VAT! :)

what did you do, go gliding in a motorglider/self starter?

He probably drove to the airfield!

[Katamarino]

238 Euros an hour for a decent C172 at Rotterdam. 20 Euros landing fee.

I'm going to move to the US, buy myself a C177, and pay $50 an hour for gas. Joy!

[DX Wombat]

Strewth!

Try here (http://www.fullsuttonairfield.com/prices.html) - much more sensible. :ok:

[Obi_Wan]

I think these rates at Conington are now more, but only by a small margin:
Aircraft for Hire from Aerolease at Peterborough Conington Airfield (http://www.flying-club-conington.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=37&Itemid=71)

152 for 100/hr and 142 for an Piper Arrow :-)

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Obi_Wan,

For renting/revalidating etc Conington is always my first choice - I fly their Arrow from time to time, the costs, coupled with the friendly staff make it a fantastic base.

Best value in the country IMO.

p.s. those prices are accurate. 1 year ago the Arrow was £120-£130, and the C152 around £90 :)

[Fake Sealion]

EV-97 - £55 per Hobbs hour -wet + £20 pcm + £85 pa Club Fee - no home landing fees. :ok:

[Weirdfish]

I pay £159 per hour plus the 85 quid annual membership. It's the £24 landing fee for Southend that can raise the cost dramatically :sad:

[Mickey Kaye]

Breighton

C150 £100 solo £120 Dual
C172 £125 solo £145 Dual

Membership 55 quid a year and NO landing fees

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi EGKB,

May I suggest you take a look at the clubs at Redhill and the Tiger Club at Lashenden/Headcorn.

I think you will find them usefully less expensive. Biggin Hill always was an expensive place to learn.

Or, as has already been suggested, take a look at three axis microlight flying. The TAMs are much better aircraft and cheaper to boot.

Good luck!

BP.

[FirstOfficer]

Greetings,

From Redhill im paying for a c172 £220 per hour all extras inclusive. This is for ppl lessons. :ooh:

I still remember paying £159 all inclusive for a ppl lesson flying a TB10 from London Luton Airport!!! :}

[Crash one]

Emeraude on LAA PTF, 18 litres per hr mogas. Self maintained sole owner. £100 per month hangar to itself no home landing fee.
No brainer innit?:ok:

[PompeyPaul]

238 Euros an hour for a decent C172 at Rotterdam. 20 Euros landing fee
Met een biertje en portie kaas na de vlucht? Lekker deluxe.

[Sensible Flyer]

£189/hr for a PA28. Not fun and seriously considering not flying any more until I have access to something cheaper as i just can't justify this cost to myself (let alone the wife! :}).

[thing]

I belong to two clubs:

Sturgate is £96 for 50 minutes take off to landing for a PA28-180 (they have a 'box' that measues when the airflow over the wings is above a certain amount) and £82 for 152. No landing fees or nonsense.

At Waddo it's £84 hr brakes off/on for a 152, £100 hr for PA28 or 172. Again no landing or approach fees.

Both charge (I think) £25 an hour for instruction.

Darlton gliding club charge £24 hr for a club glider if I remember correctly.

[Aspiring Pilot Alex]

I am currently paying £60 per hour (hobbs) wet for a C172 inclusive of home landing fees. Insurance share, November to November - no additional costs.

[AfricanEagle]

At my flying club (Italy):

C152 130euro/h sticktime + five minutes + 10 euro firemen tax
C172 160euro/h sticktime + five minutes + 10 euro firemen tax

Students + 30 euro/h instructor but 5 euro firemen tax

.

[thing]

Sounds pretty good Alex.

[piperboy84]

Damn, today's rental rates are astounding, Back in 96 when i went and got my ppl in LA I decided to buy a 1976 Warrior (150hp) for $16,000 and put it on leaseback to the school I was learning at. They in turn rented it out for about $58 per hour(wet). My 2 brothers, my then wife and I all got our PPL's for about $3000 each . The funny thing is, business slowed up at that time and I ended up living of the leaseback payments for 18 months. That old Warrior paid for itself many times over thank god.

Thinking about today's prices makes me wonder how the hell does an enthusiastic and talented kid from limited resources manage to get his/her foot on the aviation business ladder and become a pilot? the prices are just insane.

[thing]

I remember umming and arring in '76 when prices went up from £7 an hour to £9 an hour at my local school (they had a Tiger Moth as well at no extra cost....). I decided that gliding was cheaper..........

Mind you it's all about relative costs etc. I think I was earning about £200 a month back then so four hours a month would have been around 18% of my monthly earnings whereas if I fly for four hours a month now it's a lot less than that.

[kevmusic]

Last summer I paid £2000 for a Luscombe share. (It was a 1/10th share but only about 4 of us fly regularly- great!) I pay £50/month fixed costs inc. hangarage and......£45/hr wet, to fly. Only trouble is, she's a 1947 taildragger. What a bummer!

[caroberts]

Shares seem to be really good value nowadays and it's the only way I can afford to fly the type of aircraft I prefer. There may be insurance difficulty with inital training, but immediately once passed, it's a great way to build up hours and experience with other pilots in the group.

[Dave Gittins]

I fly at Redhill and the 172 is currently £162.50 and the landing fee £20.42.

I guess I should consider buying a share in something.

Anybody know any shares for sale at Redhill ?

[Ds3]

I pay £134 dual for a Robin HR200, brakes on / off, with no landing fees etc. Seems that's quite good value for money in today's market!

Once I'm PPL'd up, I'm looking at joining a non-equity group that charges £125 p/m with access currently to four aircraft, all at £10 p/h dry.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Shares seem to be really good value nowadays and it's the only way I can afford to fly the type of aircraft I prefer. There may be insurance difficulty with inital training, but immediately once passed, it's a great way to build up hours and experience with other pilots in the group.

I agree on all counts. It's something of a buyers market at the moment with the recession forcing quite a few people to try and sell - so I think that there are many bargains to be had.

By and large, if you plan on flying more than about 90 minutes per month, shares are almost always cheaper in the long run. Plus the availability usually of better condition and more interesting aeroplanes.

I have two group A shares which are a reasonable comparison.

(1) AA5, £40/month, £90/hr; to rent would be £145/hr. So, break-even at 50 minutes/month! My share cost me £999 so 2:15 per month is still break even with the share cost written off at the end of the year.

(2) S108:£95/month, £80/hr (roughly, we're on tacho). Can't rent one, but let's take a Chipmunk as a rough comparison which would typically cost around £200/hr to rent. So, ignoring the share cost, you break even at about 45 minutes/month, and writing the £3.5k I spent on my share off over a year at about 3:15 per month which is still pretty reasonable, after which it's pure saving.

The risk, that we all have to accept in syndicates however, is of costs running on because you can't sell your share when you want to leave the syndicate. That shouldn't be ignored.

G

[tom6326]

I pay £130 plus £20 landing fee.

Not too bad I also get to fly from a real airport...

Avoid Headcorn.

T

[Pilot.Lyons]

I pay £121 during week day for a c152 hobbs including as many landings i want

Its £125 at weekends

But even at those rates with a mortgage and young children its hard.

Id love a share but simply a) cant find one and b) the deposit will probably take me long time to save

Derby had two but they sold before i could save deposit and no one would lend me it for my "dangerous hobby" :(

[peterh337]

Outright ownership will deliver the lowest direct hourly cost and thus the biggest incentive to currency.

All the other options will trade down on that, in return for reducing levels of customer commitment ;)

At the very far end you have pure rental which has zero commitment but the highest hourly cost and the least incentive to flying somewhere :E

No free lunch.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Outright ownership will deliver the lowest direct hourly cost

IF you fly enough.

I've just sold at a knock-down price* the only aeroplane I've ever owned outright. The reality was that I had the time, and to a lesser extent the money, to either look after it - or fly it, but not both.

Given that the fixed costs (hangerage, insurance, CofA) don't change much regardless of how much you fly, and nor to a large extent does a large amount of the time commitment to an aeroplane, I've become a convert to the joys of syndicates over the years.

The big advantage of sole ownership is complete control over the aeroplane, and when I had a lot more spare time I took great advantage of that. But I don't believe it saves you money.

Two substantial advantages of ownership, whether in whole or part, are that you have the ability to have the aeroplane for days, not hours, and that you get to know an aeroplane far better than you ever will as a renter. In my opinion these between you make you a better, happier and safer pilot.

Being a bit of a kleptomaniac, I currently own 2 x 1/8th shares and 1 x 1/3rd share. This gives me the time and fixed cost commitments of about 2/3 of an aeroplane to look after - but a choice of three very different aeroplanes, all of which are massively underflown so I virtually never lack something I'd like to fly, and usually something that'll do what I want for a particular trip.

G


*The original purchase price, less £13 per hour I've logged in it.

[peterh337]

IF you fly enough

Not sure I agree - if you read my post carefully :)

[Genghis the Engineer]

Ah well, then depends upon how you define DOC.

G

[peterh337]

Yes; the direct hourly cost is the same whether you fly 1hr a year or 100.

It is the fixed costs which vary :)

But it is the variable costs which determine the [dis]incentive to do a particular flight.

On an owned plane, they are

- fuel
- cost of a 50hr check / 50
- cost of a 150hr check (if applicable) / 150
- cost of an engine overhaul / 2000 (or whatever)
- cost of a mag overhaul / 500 (advisable ;) )

Not sure if I left anything out...

The other stuff is all fixed costs, timed parts replacement/maintenance (the big pointless b*gger with EASA) or on-condition maintenance.

[The500man]

A good way to significantly reduce costs is to fly from a place that has a club which includes free circuits and landings for members. The fixed membership though - as with synidcates - means the less you fly the more expensive it gets. £20+ landing fees are crippling to GA pilots that only fly in daytime VFR.

[aerofoil1]

I pay £121 or hour at Tatenhill very reasonable no landing fees and a nice long Tarmac runway there's something about the tires screeching as it touches that sounds good! That's for a 152
Will be changing to the pa 28 though so can take more people up with me

[Morris542]

For hour building over the summer what would be the best way to do it? Would a company like this be the cheapest way to hire an aircraft over the "short term"?

index (http://www.bigredkite.com/)

[Genghis the Engineer]

best, or cheapest?

G

[Sensible Flyer]

I made enquireies with BRK a little while ago and they aren't renting out to individuals at the moment, more's the pity!

[pudoc]

£100/hr solo including fuel for a C152. I bought bulk hours so got a good deal. Landing fee free too.

[IanPZ]

£115/hr whilst I am learning, and then when I pass, I buy in to the club syndicate, and I think its £40 per month, and £35/hr wet. Fixed annual depreciation of £500, and I can sell back to the club at any time I want.

As G said, TAMs are the way to go!

[abgd]

My problem is that I'm likely to have to move to different areas of the country 5 times over then next 8 years - more if I'm unlucky. Buying a share isn't an option for me, because of the possibility of not being able to sell it. So it looks as if the only options for me are non-equity or hire - both of which are pretty expensive.

[UAV689]

Hi All - come join our non for profit group at Elstree! PA28-180.

£1500 for a share, £100 a month, £75 wet, a great hourly rate for a 180 hp 4 seater based in London! Great tourer, cruises at 115 kts.

Hatfield Flying Club - Home (http://www.hatfieldflyingclub.com)

Ps - you dont need to sell your share when you leave, we have written contracts -we guarantee to refund the cost of your share! :ok:

Long established group, been going since before I was born! Good availability, flew less than 150 hours last year, 100 hours year before. Online booking, fly with yourself/mates, or other club members and share costs even more !

PM or get in touch via website

UAV

[NorthSouth]

Aspiring Pilot Alex:I am currently paying £60 per hour (hobbs) wet for a C172 inclusive of home landing feesClearly someone is subsidising your flying because that doesn't even cover the cost of avgas for one hour in a 172.
NS

[Aspiring Pilot Alex]

The aircraft is a club run aircraft. It is used in normal club operations with an hourly rate of £126 per hour solo/PPL hire. I paid an up front fee, as did 3 others, to get this hourly rate for 1 year (November to November). As for the fuel the club claims the VAT back. It is the second year that the club has ran this scheme and is working out really well for them (The club wasn't getting much use out of the C172 as the C150's are the club's main earner). The club is also a subsidiary of the maintenance company at the airfield, which does all the maintenance in-house to help bring the costs down. Availability is not great at weekends, but I get a couple of days off in the week, so I get great availability.

Alex :ok: