Any B727's fitted with INS ?

[stilton]

I flew the lovely B727 for seven years.


Most of our Aircraft had just an ADF, two VOR / ILS and DME.


That was it for navigation. A few had OMEGA and, in the last few years they installed dual GPS receivers.


I am curious to know of any operator, worldwide fitted an Inertial Navigation system of any kind.


Perhaps a VIP operator ?

[Spooky 2]

Numerous VIP operators used various INS configurations. LTN-72,92, and various Carousel units. The only operator I know of that had the INS installed as OEM was Singapore when they operated maybe six or more 727 ADV. had the Carousel's installed. At the end of the original INS introduction the Carousel was having a very high degree of failure rates within the airline industry and in some cases it was less than 1000 hours between MTBF on the units. They simply became to expensive to operate thus the newer generation laser units started to take over.

[stilton]

Thanks Spooky,


Anyone have a picture of this installation ?

[fantom]

The Kuwaiti ones did and I've just found a picture in my logbook. Will scan and post.

[fantom]

Best I can do, I'm afraid:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/minlgw/scan0003.jpg

[Tony Mabelis]

In the '80's,
Dubai Airwing's 707 and 727s were fitted with dual Litton INS, plus a cold spare on board.
I was once instructed (in flight) by the Swedish Captain, to go down stairs into the lower 41 and change a U/S INS with the spare unit.
My reaction was??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!.....but was told to get on with it.:ugh:

By the time I returned to the Flight Deck the F/E had given the capt. a short lesson on how an INS functions.

The moral of the story is...........You can always tell a Swede...but you can tell him nothing!!

No, the replacement unit could not be aligned in flight.

Tony

[hetfield]

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/5673/insqu.jpg

This single INS unit was installed on some LH 727-230 for Special Charter flights in the 80s e.g. to South America.

Four First Class seats had to be romoved...http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/insqu.jpg/

[propnut]

TAA (Trans Australia Airlines) had Delco Remy INS fitted to their B727-200s late in their careers.

Bigslim

[john_tullamarine]

I recall AN/TN sharing the 727 freighter flying for a while in the 80s. Can't recall whether we were flying TN -100 or -200 (although I suspect -100 - perhaps the ex-Nauru RN7 frame ?) after the timespan, but the aircraft had Carousel fitted as best I can recall ?

[fantom]

Carousel in Dan Air (London).

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/minlgw/scan0002.jpg

[stilton]

Very nice set up.


I assume you could connect the autopilot via a Nav function ?

[CPTG747]

Many 72's have EFIS, many, yes mostly private use.....good old ship just like the 707s

[CPTG747]

yes course, even old orginial Navs could do that with auto pilot. My old seneca 11 could even.....

[CPTG747]

nice layout of orginial 72 panel

[JammedStab]

Hey...that Dan-Air 727 has a steering tiller on the right side. Must have been an option.

And the thrust levers in the first picture look strange. #1 and #3 are like the 737-200. Is that another option?

[Wodrick]

Nice avionics fit on VT, ex Singapore if memory serves. The only one DAN had with INS again if memory serves.

[fantom]

Well spotted, G-BHVT indeed. It and another were ex-SIN.

[Wodrick]

Well I worked on it enough ! I don't remember the other one though..........

[aveng]

TN 727's definately had 1 INU - used to link it to the autopilot through the AUXNAV selection. Waypoints had to be manually input, from memory they could have 10 at a time. 727 was a mighty machine - built like a brick sh!thouse and quick too.:)

[737ngpilot]

I flew VT back in the day, yes it was a Singapore plane until DanAir picked it up. Think it came with Carousel INS with DME updating, airplane also had an Aux tank so was a good long haul 727 with 205000(?)lbs TO weight.
The buttons on power levers 1 and 3 I think were the palm switches for GA input for FD

[aterpster]

aveng:

TN 727's definately had 1 INU - used to link it to the autopilot through the AUXNAV selection. Waypoints had to be manually input, from memory they could have 10 at a time. 727 was a mighty machine - built like a brick sh!thouse and quick too.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

Our L1011s and 747s all had 9 lat/lons at a time.

[rudderrudderrat]

Hi aterpster,

I remember that when we performed a "direct to" - it would place present pos in waypoint 0 (zero), but then once it was sequencing from 1 to 2 etc, could we load another waypoint in pos 0?

What happened when it overflew pos 9? Did it go to pos 0 or pos 1?

[con-pilot]

USMS aircraft had dual Littons, the kind that to enter a Jet Route, instead of just J38 from point A to point X, you had to enter every single fix on the route individually

There is a long story on just why we had the Littons, to be brief, 99% of the pilots, including me, did not want them, but the Department Head/Chief Pilot did, so that is what we ended up with. He was long gone by the time you showed up, but you probably know who I'm talking about.

However, even those were better than the INSs we first had, they could only hold nine (9) waypoints. On trips to South America the guy in the right seat and sometimes the FE had their heads down updating waypoints for almost the entire trip plugging in new waypoints.

It was a true pain in the butt.

[rogerg]

If you forgot to update when I flew DC10s you ended up in Lagos. That was enough to remind you!!

[fantom]

Happiness is V1 at Lagos.

[aterpster]

rudderrudderrat:

Hi aterpster,

I remember that when we performed a "direct to" - it would place present pos in waypoint 0 (zero), but then once it was sequencing from 1 to 2 etc, could we load another waypoint in pos 0?

What happened when it overflew pos 9? Did it go to pos 0 or pos 1?

I never flew real international, only the L1011 LAX-HNL. 9 waypoints were a perfect fit for the R routes.

I heard a story about one of our sharper international captains deadheading westbound on the north atlantic on one of our few night westbound flights. He woke up and noticed the moon go by his passenger window. So, he went to the cockpit and woke up three guys asleep. The INS had sequenced to position zero, so they were headed for N 0 and W 0.

Or, so the story goes.:)