SSEA?

[CdoGunner]

SSEA can any member advise how I can find out the exact definition of what the CAA regard as a SSEA possibly a 172 but not a PA28R. Have just spent an hour on the CAA website and cannot find a reference to aircraft type.

[MrAverage]

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/AN%20Amendment%20Order%20Circular%20v%201%2000%2000.pdf

[flybymike]

CdoGunner, SSEA is a rating and not an aircraft type. The confusion usually arises because of the former definitions of "simple" and "complex" singles. Complex are now virtually all type rated turbine/high performance stuff.

[Dan the weegie]

Just to be clear, the rating SSEA gives you the right to fly any Single Engined aircraft under 2 tonnes with 4 seats or less. Day VFR only in the UK (and some other countries with prior authorisation).
You can definitely fly a Pa28 R with that rating

[J.A.F.O.]

Dan

As I understand it, the requirement is not for four seats of fewer it's for four persons on board or fewer. So, if you could find a 10 seat aircraft which was less than 2 tonnes you could fly it as long as you only filled three seats plus your own.

[abgd]

Um, I believe you can fly a PA28R on an NPPL, but must have completed differences training as it has a constant-speed prop and retractable undercarriage.

[S-Works]

Yep, you can.The limits are described as above.

[BEagle]

Correct.

Incidentally, if you've already flown a PA28R on a non-NPPL, there is no requirement for any further signatures, tests or checks to fly it on an NPPL (SSEA).

[Jan Olieslagers]

despite it being a single engined aircraft

Legalese is very dim, but I think in most jurisdictions a microlight aka ULM aka ultralight is NOT considered an aircraft. In the legal sense of the word, "aircraft" means a c152 and everything upwards, up to and probably including spacecraft.

[S-Works]

Adam, as much as its a stupid situation, you can't fly a microlight on a SSEA. Yet you can on a SEP, go figure!

[bingofuel]

Incidentally, if you've already flown a PA28R on a non-NPPL, there is no requirement for any further signatures, tests or checks to fly it on an NPPL (SSEA).

Am I not correct in thinking that difference training is only valid for 12 months if the appropriate type is not flown in that period? So unless you have flown the VP prop or retractable within a year you require further difference training. Or is this just for the PPL, not the NPPL?

[thing]

You couldn't make this up. If you put ten people in a room and told them they had a week to make the most complex and non understandable rules up about flying I bet they couldn't do as good a job as the CAA. In fact I reckon that's how the CAA started. As a bet.

It's almost as funny as Yes Minister.

[J.A.F.O.]

Am I not correct in thinking that difference training is only valid for 12 months

First time I've heard that one and I've certainly never come across it in any legislation. You do know it's only April Fool's Day upto midday, don't you?

[vintagemember]

Differences training does not expire for the SEP class, although one might decide to undertake voluntary refresher training if desired. Rather depends on your Darwinian instinct! Read LASORS, Section F Page 6, paragraph entitled 'Validity'.

[bingofuel]

Thanks for the reference, indeed valid indefinitely, but recommended after two years, which must have been what I was thinking of.
Cheers

[CdoGunner]

Thank you for the info, now how do I change my PPL A for a SSEA/NPPL as I have one of the old type of PPL i.e. a brown cardboard job as the CAA seem to have forgotten me since 97 or of course they may have decided any PPL with a BFPO address was a dodgy sort of bloke.

[Jim59]

I cannot think why you would want to change to an NPPL right now unless it is to avoid the Class 2 medical. The PA28 is an EASA aircraft (as is the 172) so within the next two years (a transition period) you will not be able to fly an EASA aircraft on an NPPL. The licence which will allow you to do so is the new EASA LAPL(Aeroplanes)*. The CAA will start issuing these from the summer. You will also need an NPPL if you want to fly microlights (unless you hang onto your existing PPL - that will also allow you to do so). There will be a transition path from the old UK PPL(A) to the LAPL(A). If you have a currency issue you probably need to sort it out before 1st July.

*(LAPL = light aircraft pilots licence)

[BEagle]

No wonder people are confused....

There is so much incorrect nonsense on this thread that it is difficult to know where to begin.

Anyway, the PA28R may be flown using an NPPL until 7 Apr 2015.

The SSEA Class Rating was originally an NPPL Class Rating for a specific category of light aeroplane, not being a Microlight.

Want to fly a Microlight? Get a Microlight Class Rating.
Want to fly an SSEA aeroplane? Get an SSEA Class Rating.
Want to fly an SLMG? Get an SLMG Class Rating.

Simple enough. But then someone at the CAA decided that Microlights could also be flown using SEP Class Rating privileges, provided that differences training (more correctly, conversion training) had been undertaken. There was no recency requirement for flying Microlights and any such flying wouldn't even count towards SEP Class Rating revalidation.

Meanwhile, we finally got shot of the stupid 'rolling validity' nonsense (which EASA have now reinvented for their LAPL :( ) and introduced consolidated NPPL revalidation requirements for holders of more than one NPPL Class Rating. Which are simple enough to understand and quite reasonable.

Then came the ORS4 saga. The CAA's original idea was to allow people who had lost their Class 2 medicals to carry on flying until they either regained their Class 2s, or the licence expired. Regrettably, some barrack room lawyers abused the system and as a result, the scope of the exemption was reduced.

Regarding the LAPL(A), I am currently working with the CAA on credit for Microlight pilots. As the UK has a robust Microlight-to-SSEA conversion process, that should be the starting point, followed by NPPL(A)-to-LAPL(A) conversion, with due credit for requirements common to both. It won't be in the first issue of CAP804, but we hope to sort it out by the second.

Regarding aircraft such as the Ikarus C42 which nudge the boundaries of the Microlight Class Rating, remember that it is a Class Rating, not a C42 Type Rating.

[Jim59]

Anyway, the PA28R may be flown using an NPPL until 7 Apr 2015.

I stand corrected on the date, the two years to 7th April 2014 I referred to applies to aerial work such as towing gliders.

The best source of information is the CAA web site
EASA Licensing and Training Transition | EASA Transition | Personal Licences and Training (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=2330)
in particular the document 'A Quick Guide'
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/2330/Revised%20pdf%201%20March%2012CAA4459_EASA_quickguide_emaile r.pdf


CdoGunner
Obviously we do not know your current licensing situation. The old UK PPL had indefinite validity until EASA came on the scene so if your SEP class rating is still valid you can use it for the next three years as long as you have a class 2 medical. If the rating has elapsed by less than 5 years you can re-new it by passing a skills test and an oral theoretical examination with an examiner. If it is longer then the CAA will want some money from you as well! You will in either case need to discuss with an instructor how much training is appropriate. (LASORS Page F12)

If you maintain / renew your UK PPL(A) for a bit longer then you should be able to go direct to an LAPL(A) without having to take out an NPPL for a period of no more than three years if you want to fly EASA aircraft.

If you do not meet class 2 medical requirements that may be a good reason to move to an NPPL as an interim step.

To convert the UK PPL to an NPPL is simple if everything is valid otherwise
(see NPPL Home Page (http://www.nationalprivatepilotslicence.co.uk/))

2.2 Pilots with expired licences or ratings.
Credit shall be given for holders of expired CAA-issued JAR-FCL Pilot Licence (Aeroplanes) and UK PPL (A) licences or ratings as follows:
a. Where a SEP class rating included in such licences has expired by not more than 5 years, the licence holder shall hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or JAA Class 1 or 2 medical certificate and pass the NPPL GST in a SSEA.
b. Where a SEP class rating included in such licences has expired by more than 5 years, the licence holder shall undergo a course of SSEA refresher flying training as specified by a FI(A) or CRI(SPA), hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or JAA Class 1 or 2 medical certificate and pass the NPPL GST in a SSEA. The licence holder shall also pass an oral theoretical knowledge examination conducted by the authorised examiner as part of the GST.

[BEagle]

CAP804 is the title of the new pilot licensing document which will shortly replace LASORS.