View Full Version : Damaged Engine secured by seat belts
Hello all, I'm new here but am trying to get an accurate answer a question that I have not been able to get on another forum. This photo has been floating around the internet for years and has been associated with a number of hoax stories.
Does anyone have the real story of what happened here with this engine?
Thanks,
http://www.snopes.com/photos/airplane/graphics/chinaair1_small.jpg
http://www.snopes.com/photos/airplane/graphics/chinaair2_small.jpg
http://www.snopes.com/photos/airplane/graphics/chinaair3_small.jpg
Load Toad
31st Mar 2012, 01:56
Yeah - the story is a hoax. So - what else do you need to know?
lomapaseo
31st Mar 2012, 02:46
Partly true but who cares, unless of course the story you heard has been embellished way beyond your opening statements
Dan Winterland
31st Mar 2012, 03:22
Couldn't open the pictures, but I suspect it's the FOD damages JT9 pictures which seem to do the rounds regularly. A 747 can do a three engine ferry. In the case of the JT9, it has to be 'gagged' which also involves preventing the N1 stage roating in the case of fan blade damage. Using cargo strops is the recommended procedure.
Echo-Charlie
31st Mar 2012, 06:14
Was involved (maintenance) with a Tower Air 747 in FRA in 2000 ... can't say until I see the photos.
pax2908
31st Mar 2012, 06:33
... prevent windmilling (to avoid damage due lack of oil pressure) ?
lomapaseo
31st Mar 2012, 06:54
... prevent windmilling (to avoid damage due lack of oil pressure) ?
damaged engines also have a tendancy to shake rattle and roll if allowed to windmill. Could be confusing to the pilot to interpret which one
Agaricus bisporus
31st Mar 2012, 07:42
And this tedious thread has been done so many times before over the years...
It's likely N2 was locked at the gearbox therefore required N1 to be locked as well, there would be no oil pressure without N2 spinning.
TURIN
31st Mar 2012, 08:44
If it's this one.....
SNOPES HAS THE ANSWERS (http://www.snopes.com/photos/airplane/airchina.asp)
:zzz:
golfyankeesierra
31st Mar 2012, 10:14
or this blog (http://ships.bouwman.com/Planes/Bad-Jet-Engine.html)
one who thinks the cargo straps are seatbelt obviously isn't aware of the size of what looks to me as a CF6.
Basil
31st Mar 2012, 10:26
If a four engine jet aircraft has an engine failure, it may be more economical to carry out a 3 engine ferry flight to a maintenance base than to freight another engine, parts, tools (some very large), engineers etc to the aircraft location.
Provided that a list of procedures is observed, it is perfectly legal to take off and fly the aircraft on three engines.
As has been stated, it is highly undesirable to have the failed engine rotate in flight. This is prevented by 'spragging', that is: by some means stopping the fan from rotating. I've seen it done by jamming some wooden staves between the blades and tying them together with wire. Seat belt extensions seem as good a means as any although, personally, I'd like to see the buckles wired closed.
Before anyone asks: No passengers. Even as a company FO with wife, we were refused travel on a VC10 3E ferry many years ago.
Metro man
31st Mar 2012, 12:40
Some airports will not allow 3 engine ferry flights. I don't have the Jepp with me at the moment but IIRC Hong Kong and Macau want all engines available for take off.
Basil
31st Mar 2012, 12:48
Thanks, Metro man,
My stories come from some time ago. In our company a 3E ferry crew had to have a sim training session immediately before carrying out the flight. It was all treated very seriously with, of course, an empty aircraft.
I do not think that they should be banned but, since the airport operator has no control over the quality of the airline operation, I can understand their reluctance to place their head in the noose of blame if all goes wrong.
JW411
31st Mar 2012, 13:44
In my last company all captains were authorised to carry out 3-engine ferry flights and all captains and F/Os were exercised in the procedure in the simulator annually and signed-up as being qualified.
Poster's #1 and #2. You really no how to throw the sarcasm in and NOT make a person feel welcome. Next time just don't bother responding.
For all the rest, your comments are appreciated. The Snopes and other supplied link do NOT actually direct you to a FACTUAL story and I could have just as easily done a Google search on my own to find that out. What I'm looking for is someone who has FIRST hand knowledge of this incident.
Still looking for some real answers to match up to the pictures.
Thanks.
I doubt you'd find anything, as it was not an incident, if the A/C did a 3 engine ferry (no pax) from an airfield with no engineering support to the most suitable airfield the only way to lock the N1 is to strap the blades to outlet guide vanes as in the pic, they are not seat belts and it's clear rubber strips are under the straps to prevent the straps from being damaged.
What you should search for is the Boeing recommended technique to secure an A/C engine for a 3 engine ferry when engineering is not available to remove the blades to prevent N1 from spinning.
To three engine ferry a RB211 you have to remove the fan blades and fit a fairing over the core intake. It is proberbly much the same proceedure on the CF-6 and JT-9.
You can also ferry a JT-9 with the fan blades "Gagged". In this proceedure you tie the fan blades to the stators behind it. The approved tool for this looks like a very long passenger seat belt compleate with the buckle assembly!. I have seen "Shock, Horror" report of this in the "Gutter press" . You know the thing "Aircrafts engine held together with seat belts". But it is an approved M.M. proceedure for the JT-9 . The other thing with this method of ferrying is you have to gag the core to prevent it windmilling. This is done buy removing the hydralic pump and fitting a gag to the pump drive.
grounded27
31st Mar 2012, 15:57
They are straps that are manufactured and certified for this purpose only. I also strapped a Tower Air JT9 on ACFT 617 in KMIA for ferry to KJFK. Wrong forum, should have asked the pro's in the first place.
Echo-Charlie
31st Mar 2012, 17:02
C19 here is my story.
I met the aircraft on taxi-in at FRA and the engine was already secured with the strap kit.
According to the Flight Engineer, seems too much fuel was loaded for a heavy departure somewhere hot down range.
The AC was taxied to a make-shift engine run area to"burn off" the excess fuel.
In the process a sign or fence was ingested creating the FOD damage. S#it Happens
It was then set up to 3 engine ferry flight to FRA then on to JFK.
They secured the fan using a strap kit and pads thenoff it flew to FRA.
The outbound flight engineer asked me to perform the required "three serviceable engines for a ferry flight preparation inspection"or he would not fly.
After pulling 3 chip detectors out and they all lookedlike a Chia Pet. I said no thank you.
LH Technical folks stepped in ... then came the LBA.
One month and several engine changes later itdeparted.