THY are now claiming trainings cost of 7000 - 15000 Lira after your contract is finished.
What a bunch.
Not paying your last salary and deducting your "debt" even no bond for training cost after
contract finished. So, do not followed procedure when resigning, just leave after payday, this
ensures at least your last salary.
Do not go there.

how can they get away with that?

Given the fact that the international courts have their plates filled with other issues, for the time being yes... they can get away with their current practice.

THY is not the only carrier that pulls this misdeed either.

In China for example, expats are promised bonuses for each year of service. Their LPCs are scheduled before the completion of that one year of service. The LPC is failed, and thus no bonus:*. Same goes for if one fails their medical.

News rumors are, that THY need to start employing expats again.
Wonder why they were not able to keep the guys they had.
Maybee because weekly block hours increased from 30 - 37. Resting period going down
from 10 hours to 8 on outstations (block to block).
Ops calling all the time, changing your schedule.
Nobody evers answers your emails or have any answers.
your salary never is right, you get deducted in payment for ?????

It goes on and on.
Much better places to be.

Does Someone know how to apply for Turkish? On their website they only provide information, without any actual application information. I neither could find a working link on pilotjobsnetwork nor pilotcareercentre.

Thanks!

If you are applying as F/O do not wast your time, THY have more than 300 in the pipeline, they are looking for Captains with TT min 8000 +4000 hrs on type and prefering instructors and examinors.

Looks like trick used by Turkish Airlines HR is to issue a training cost up to 7500 EURO if you leave within the first year of your contract and then.... when renewing your contract after the first year use the same contract form that have the same bonding year after year, so it is a lifetime bonding if you sign with THY :ugh:Only way out is the night after payday.

Had the following Mail in my Mailbox today. What is that now? After they scared away alot of Guy´s and did not extend the contract of many others the eroding situation is forcing them to shop outside again. Too bad, hopefully the fellows are warned that they will do the same today again. Your Contract ends when they want ! Not when it is due.....

It is all still in a mess, not organised, all will come together one day but it can fall apart at the very next day as well. So do not go there to leave a secure job. If you are jobless then it is another piece on the plate but have a plan "B" in the sleeve, it will happen again that they scarp the people when the Expat phobia is suddenly kicking in one day.

Parc Aviation on behalf of Turkish Airlines is happy to announce we are now accepting applications for B737NG Captains.

The minimum requirements for this position is as follows;

Minimum Requirements:

6,000 hours total flying time (4,000 hours in multi-jet MTOW 27 tonnes or greater)
A minimum of 2,000 hours in command as Commander/Captain of B737-NG (some EFIS PIC may also be taken into consideration when accompanied with 1000 hours NG PIC time).
Class 1 medical
ICAO English minimum level 4
JAA Licence
Meet Age profile of 37-59 at commencement
Current Captain /Commander, First Officers, qualified as Cruise Captains, does not meet requirements.

Must be current and have flown the aircraft in the last 12 months

Base: Turkey
Contract: Direct with airline
Duration: Initial contract offer 1 year renewable

We are waiting on confirmation from THY if they will accept all other licence types outside of JAA, therefore we are happy to accept expressions of interest from Captains who are not JAA licensed. Please review the terms above and if you would like to be considered for the position, please complete the application form and send back to me directly as soon as possible.

Just think of it as an invitation for a Kebab party...what they don't mention in the invitation is that you will be the meat. More tender expat meat for the Turkish slaughter house meat grinder.Go ahead boys , destroy your lives,quit your jobs and head for the THY neon lights.

4 month of training in the Sun. :)

Check the contract offer.

Duration one day less than one year so THY HR Department refuses to pay you earned vacation when you leave (or are terminated as many are after the initial one year).
ID ticket offer in the initial contract disappears after first year of employment.
If you extend after first year and then leave you are charged Training Cost worth approx 7000€ even after initial contract.
Pay is calculated in local currency and the Turkish Lira to EURO/USD rate is not attractive at the present.

My experience: BAD...
No commute contract
LOW PAY
Long initial training
Flight Pay reduction (7000TL) if no flight that month due to training or validation wait.
I lost one month.
No final paycheck, I quit early. I worked ten days free for them...
Poor Scheduling with constant changes when the senior THY Captains see a trip he wants.
Sched tries to break company regs sometimes asking if you will do "extra".
Forced to commute to Alternate airport 1.5 hr drive sometimes with no transport provided, and you pay. No duty time added for this.
You use your own time off to do paperwork and some training tasks.
Sigma said 5% reduction for taxes, it was more like 15 to 20%
No mention from Sigma about reduction in pay for training/no fly
Interview process a MESS!...meaning at least 6 months.
737 routes domestic require constant aircraft and crew changes.
Imagine 16 hr duty day to obtain 5 hours of flight time.
The GOOD STUFF!
Hotels okay to excellent.
Check in and Pilot lounges good.
The Turk Pilots are Good people to fly with. Flight attendants the best...
Good place to live and affordable. Clean conditions and Air quality.
Food is good.
777 and A330/40 much better contract and commutable...they treat the 73 guys like slaves.

Bottom line is that I would go back with a commute contract, 4 days on 3 off per week, and 10K per month.

Good luck!

The Turk Pilots are Good people to fly with.

The problem has never been who you are flying with...
it's who you are flying for..:ugh:

The latest from THY is that apparently they are not getting a good response to their recruitment drive.- but then is anyone surprised. It seems that they over did it when they decided not to renew contracts and now they are very short of pilots. This combined with the fact that there is an exodus of ex pats has caused a problem.
So the THY solution is to call all expats to a meeting and make dramatic promises of .permanent jobs, pay increases, etc etc. However my guess is that these promises will last until the summer is over and then ............??
Can anyone confirm that some or any of the supposed meeting is true?

Fredtheman

I have also heard the rumours. Can't see how it would work though with many of us flying here on license validations. Surely we would need a Turkish license to take up a permanent job. Still it doesn't stop them from making an offer! The admirals mightnt be that happy either! :cool:

Just to give you an idea on how bad things are around here, I made the decision to leave THY before I finished my training. Of coarse by then I had severed ties with my previous company,lost the recent experience required to apply elsewhere and was in deep s**t. Like many others I moved my family away from their comfort zone in the hopes that I would be joining a legacy carrier that would value the experience that I gathered around the world and would provide a future for all of us,reality couldn't be farther from the truth. One of the most difficult moments I had in my life was when I gathered my wife and kids and told them "I made a mistake, a big mistake that has and will affect all of us for an undetermined length of time and I am looking for a new job".
It doesn't matter what they promise,the truth is out about their real intentions towards foreigners,they thought they could do without us up to a few months ago so they opened their game and let us know what was in the cards. The plan is simple really,use us as their bi****s while they train and upgrade their boys,and then discard us like used gum. It's a win\win situation for them,foreigners will be flying multiple local sectors,early mornings and night flights,while their own pilots see their rosters improved,meanwhile instructors are free to train the new generation of academy pilots and upgrade new Kaptans. When the numbers are met foreigners will be phased out by non renewal of their short term contracts. It's a scam. All of this done without giving foreign pilots Expat status and T&C's,offering them local terms which by the way are a joke. Smart.
This company has thrived on the exploitation and medieval abuse of their own turkish pilots,and thought it could do the same with foreigners. The result is obvious, countless have left and will leave,the true number is a well kept secret but for some who are better informed it amounts to more than half of the initial group.
The new recruitment frenzy will be a test as to how naive pilots really are and the effects of THY's aggressive commercial policy on pilot career decision making now that the truth is out. Are they going to accept signing a contract that has the nominal value of a soiled piece of toilet paper about to be flushed?Are they going to accept joining a company that stops paying them the moment that they report sick?Are they going to accept that they will be flying tired beyond their wildest nightmares with minimum rest just reduced to 8 hours chocks in \brake release ?Are they going to accept T&C's that exclude housing allowance,children's education,any kind of pension scheme,less than a month of holidays per year,loss of company tickets after one year?A monthly salary that has lost 20-30% of it´s value facing the USD and the EUR in 2 years?Are they going to adapt to a city like Istanbul? Because one thing is coming here for a few days,visit a few monuments,have a few drinks and do some shopping, another thing is living here. We'll see...
For those of you that have left or are about to leave I can only wish you good luck in picking up the pieces and a smooth transition to a better life elsewhere.:ok:
THYTHY

And on top of all of the above bad news, you had to live... in Turkey!!!

Why not simply wave goodbye from a THY layover destination - the day after payday? Get off the airplane and forget to go back after your rest break. Don't forget a room party.

Thanks, guys, I was toying with the idea of a THY job but after reading those posts and hearing the exact same from most of the guys I know who went there, they can jam it.

Can the same be said of Sun Express, or is this a different kettle of fish?

What don't you do what I did?
Tell the broker that you want 9000€ tax free, 5-on 3-off, 5-on 4-off, and flight to and from any THY destination on your days off.

Off course the answer was NO. But if everyone raises the bar, they won't have any other option.

Ah! I know that because I am currently flying, I can bargain.

Check Six, Krueger

The way they are structured it may work even better 5/4, it is just a matter of time when they have to give in on that. Are you sure your message is passed on to the relevant Department or did the Agent took the buffer and just dropped it as they promised they can find Pilots for that crappy condition?.

Write to them directly and tell them, I am more then 100% on the side that eroding conditions should be stopped. Even when I was out of a Job I took not the first offer, was the lowest by the way, I took one who gave me more pleasure.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

I cant wait to see the end of this story.... eventually they will have to leave aircraft on the ground. I dont work for them but have friends that does.
What the story on B748 or A380...

Any present B737 expat captain with THY is looking for “parachutes”, a back up system in case things turn foul for them.
The number of voluntary endings is still on the rise. Thy is hoping the positions will be taken by ill-informed newcomers?
The following information is posted:

Duration: 1 year renewable
Base: Istanbul, Turkey
Roster Pattern: 5 days on, 2 off / 6 days on, 1 off
Commencement Date: As soon as possible
Screening location: Istanbul, Turkey
Accommodation provided: During screening & for first 15 days after joining
Ground transportation provided throughout training
Reality is as follows:

Duration is to the liking of the company and not the employee. They might give you one week notice when they don’t extend. Even in the second year of contract THY charges the training costs to the pilots that are leaving. Many lawsuits are in place by pilots that have left to receive their correct final salary.
Base: Istanbul as base is defined by the company’s lawyers as both Atatürk and Sabhia Gökcen airports, which gives the company the right to have the pilots report at Sabhia( with a transfer to that airport in your own time and at own costs) and the right to finish your day at Sabhia (return in own time and at own costs!) The trip from Atatürk to Sabhia can take up to a few hours and a taxi will cost you substancially.
Roster pattern: The scheduling department forces their pilots to work outside the rules. In the labor agreement it is laid down that a pilot should be off duty 12 hours after his last flight before his day off starts. In real life the schedules have been stretched to end at midnight before the day off. The subtle pressure being used is the line: if you don’t fly we will take your salary…. Afraid of hassle (and or job) many just do it.
Commencement date: the sooner the better as they are running short on captains (many Turkish pilots have not passed the English language proficiency test).
Screening location: Of course Istanbul with a paid ticket by the company. Better to inform the new guys about the ID90 rights are only for the first year. The second year ZED fares are in force.

Accomodation: no remarks
Ground transportation: more precise information will learn that the only paid transportation is from the hotel to training center. Any other transportation to head office, police station, photo shop, hospital, clothing center etc., will not be reimbursed.

Think twice , learn Turkish as they hardly speak English and only join when you are desperate, otherwise you will become it just a bit later...
Long haul? Much better conditions. Commuting contract and housing arrangements.

Just realized THY pays the ticket when you join the company :) thank you - but when your contrat is terminated or you resign they cancel your last PC and leave you in open space without renewed certificate and refuse to pay your return ticket to your homebase:=

Can the same be said of Sun Express, or is this a different kettle of fish?

I work for SunExpress for more than two years. General a good company to work for, but not a commuting job. If you like the sun and dont mind flying 1000hrs a year, go for it.

Sorry but my experience is different. Two times a month i have four off days in a row. That is enough for me to travel to my own country. Turkish people are very friendly and have much respect for us foreign pilots. But i know from other people that THY and other Turkish companies are different then SXS. But I can say I am very happy. If you are willing to relocate it is a good company to work for.

Ph.. I'm glad you're happy in your company,and you are absolutely right when you state that the Turks are nice people to fly with, By the way , please share with us how you overcame the obstacles of education for your children if you have them, how you solved the problem of housing without housing allowance and how did you solve the problem of mobility. I am asking this because many foreigners are currently applying for a left hand seat on Europe's "best airline" and they have normal expectations regarding these issues.
They don't expect that they will not be able to afford international schools because they are simply outrageously expensive,and even if they are willing to take a substantial cut in their earnings to give proper education to a single child they still have to sacrifice the child with a daily commute of a few hours in hectic and dangerous traffic. I don't think they expect to be forced to sign up their kids in Turkish schools.
They don't expect to have to place their family in ridiculously tiny apartments in a densely populated areas with difficult access because decent and well located housing is simply too expensive.
They don't expect to become prisoners of a transport network characterized by a chaotic traffic system where you risk death or bodily injury each time you take to the road, and makes it almost impossible to have your own means of transport,leaving you at the mercy of either extremely expensive taxis or an old and overcrowded public transport system.
They expect by joining the "best airline in Europe" that the company will support them,provide conditions for the foreigner to overcome the difficulties of moving his family and his belongings to a new country|city|culture.
They have no real understanding of the meaning "local terms" and the real impact on their future and of their families.
Basically, they don't expect that once they sign the contract they will have to overcome the tremendous difficulties that the locals have to overcome in this country where most of the population lives on the edge of misery.

THYTHY I think that PH-ETS was refering to the question regarding SXS, where I think he/she is working.

I am not working for THY but SXS. My experience is different I love this country. Maybe the difference is I am single and don't have to worry about kids and education.
But it is still your choice to relocate, and they don't force you to sign the contract. I think you are a little bit disrespectful with you post to the country and its culture. It is a different way of living don't compare it to your own life. And if you want only that life stay where you are. Every country and culture has it own problems. Don't try to change it, it doesn't work but try to adopt to it. But as I said, I don't have experience with THY

I understand English isn't your mother language, but I fail to capture your point.Would you mind to elaborate a bit more, please?

thanks PH-ETS, appreciate the info:)

Ph.. if you check my posts you will realize that I am the first to protect the Turks and their rich culture. Turks are warmhearted welcoming people and from my experience they have many qualities that are missing in other western cultures,specially regarding foreigners. My posts are not aimed at Turkish culture, they are aimed at THY company culture. Contract agencies picture Istanbul as a wonderful place to live and do not mention the enormous obstacles that pilots face once they join THY. As a result many have suffered terrible disappointments and like me left stable lives/jobs to join the big question mark that is THY, and in the process hurt those that depend on them. In your situation I fully understand that it is possible to have a good time,or in the event of being unemployed it is a good option for a short time. Most Captains on the 320 or 737 are middle aged men with families to raise and support and it is to them that I issue these very serious warnings, the act of joining THY has the potential of being one of those life changing moments,for the worse, that can take a long time to fix .Having this information that I am trying to share during the screening period would have saved me a tremendous amount of distress and money. I am not trying do discourage pilots to apply, if they do at least they will have their eyes open to these issues and will be able to form a better picture of what awaits them and their families. And believe me, the short time you spend in IST during the screenings is not enough to get even a glimpse of reality.
Otto..25%? That's more than 500 expats, a few carriers will have to go bust for them to meet this target. I don't see them changing their T&C's and attitude towards foreigners in a way that good and experienced Captains will migrate to this paradise. The problem is not the 25%, it's the 75% that they have been abusing for so long, that will have to see their conditions improved also. Interesting times ahead,with summer so close.

Now is much better than your previous post!
Thank you for the good info.:ok:

FF

Hmmmm:

Turkish people are very welcoming and friendly

versus:

The Airline upper management and senior pilots are xenophobic

Everyone is friendly until they see their own personal meal ticket being threatened. Sounds like a bunch of a*s*holes, regardless of who it is.

HamFan... It's complicated, believe me. You have to witness this environment first hand to understand how unique it really is.
You have a short sited management/administration that is forced to hire foreigners who refuse to take their abuse and neglect ,and resign by the hundreds.
You have more than 2000 local pilots that are generally good people but see their future and "Status Quo" threatened by foreigners.
The contradictions and conflict of interests that result from this melting pot are pure schizophrenia.:ooh:

You got the perfect picture!
Albeit I'm not currently working for THY I understand perfectly what you mean.
Unfortunately the way they regard the expats in general won't change in the near future.

My conclusion is that the job is only suitable for someone who has come out of retirement and could easily stop tomorrow....or was wise enough to save more than I have..!
For the rest of us that depend on salaries to keep the family running, its not an option. Wish it wasnt so.

First the company and the suroundings are unique, well saight THYTHY.

The people I flew with where nice and warmhearted humans, they embraced you as you where one of theire own even during the assessment.

Then you have the one who are jealous when you deadhead from or to IST on a A320 or B737 and they think you block them from getting promoted to the"High Fleet Job" (A330/340 B777).

On the other side you have the quarter to quarter thinking people only in the higher level of administration and the ones who deal with the Government agencies about valdidation and visa. Not effective at all. There where cases that type ratet and expirienced pilots need about 10 to 12 months until they finished the conversion course, needless to say that many of them left in the meantime.

Now they see that the past was not any good for THY. Now they try something new, throw a new coin and hope for the best instead of taking the right people into the right key position to get things going. That of course could hurt the Buddy scheme, that would question the status quo for some and there you start to reach the starting point again: Find the corner where you start when you are in a circle !

Just to enlighten you a bit more: No hiring into the A330/340 and B777 fleet, advise from above. Sort out the problem in another way, back to square one.

Discipline requires also sacrifice your own benefit now and then, the way I have seen it is that many try to invent the wheel new. Achieve goals without any concessions who would be beneficial in the long term. Targets are set from quarter to quarter, who cares about a year or even for a decade?

The product that the passenger get in the Cabin is good, the food outstanding.

If you are ready to retire tomorrow like Payscale saight it maybe fit you, if you need to feed a family and pay the bills regularly then beware the step you might do: From slippery ground to iced surface. You could slide out tomorrow again as there will be a new excuse that the services of ExPats is not welcomed anymore and you are faster History then you think.

Enjoy the Blue Mosque, the Grand Basar, the Bospherus Cruise and the Evenings at the Taksin Place as long as you are there if you want to take the chance but be warned and prepared at the same time.

This is in layman's terms how I can describe SXS; Here are the facts:

1. Anadolu Jet had to close down as Pegasus filed suit about illegal competition practices, therefore giving birth to SunExpress expansion.
2. Last December 2011, several foreigner Captains at THY were unexpectedly called to discover the dream of SXS, which was nothing but a nightmare if U continue reading below. (THY sold Foreigner captain names to SXS without their consent) Both HR at THY & SXS work in tandem.
3. SXS is the creation of the infamous THY COO & Flt Ops Directorate to make foreigner pilots at THY occupy the new vacant slots with a pay cut. (-6700T.L/mo), and fly all domestic Anadolu Jet rosters, about 4 to 5 legs/day.
4. SXS max pay is designed to reduce 25% the domestic operating costs of THY, by hiring personnel who are non-typed, and chaps unemployed for past six months. (preferably Yabanci=non Turks).Cheap labor!
5. Some chaps were attracted to the idea of 50/50% funding THY/LH, but as most Germans did with Pegasus, they also decided to pull out recently from SXS, leaving this relatively new outfit 100% under THY funding, and used as the backyard of THY for domestic flights in replacement of Anadolu Jet.
6. THY is a monopoly in Turkey (Andolu Jet, Bora Jet & SunExpress all owned by THY);
7. Working patterns at SXS same or worse than THY (A320/B737NG) operations and based in places like ADA,ESB,SAW,AYT.
8. Employment agreement one page, conditions of service pretty much similar to those offered in Africa or Central America.
9. No union, no job protection, other that working at will.

One positive note: the Management of SXS is more crystal and transparent than that of THY. They seem to have been bred with LH(Lufthansa) HR policies & practices, they treat people better, they accommodate personal issues more humanely, and most important, they let foreigners participate with their former experience in the making of SoP's and other operational issues. Good luck!

THY is fairly new to dealing with foreigners, and civilian pilots to say the least. They only started recruiting about three years ago, after the AMS accident where EASA/JAA Netherlands auditing team discovered the pilot group had nothing but ex-military Turkish personnel, the type of individuals proud of bombing their Kurdish brothers towards the Iraqi border; THY was forced to accept Yabanci (Non-Turkish) pilots in order for them not to be banned into European airspace, as the AMS accident was not the first one in this airline.

Proud Turks voted NO at TALPA (Turkish THY Pilot Union) when told about THY management seeking foreigners to fill-in the vacancies for the anticipated expansion. They feared being accused of not complying with ICAO English level 4, and many other deficiencies that they sweep under the rug on the basis of protecting their ego. The result then is obvious, how many Turkish pilots do you know working away from Turkey? How many B777 fleet mangers have you met with (0) zero hours on type?

The schizophrenia mentioned by THYTHY is indeed clinical, but so is the case with other professionals there, such as doctors, lawyers and journalists. It is a cultural problem. They are simply not loved by their neighboring countries, and everyone wonders why?

One very sincere Turk (hard to find one:eek:), told me once: Captain, Turkey is not Europe, we are Middle East, please understand that our names and words in our language originate in this part of the world. The extreme case was vented out when I asked about the definition of a Turk?;

"A Sheep's Skin. A sheep never marauds, a sheep never deceives, a sheep is magnificently dumb and docile. With a sheep-skin on his back, a fox can pass right into the chicken coop."

The victims? All foreigners who dare to be nothing but staples of their own whims.

Despise the free lunch, you are joining a proud society where you maybe arrested for uttering remarks praising the Kurds or even knoding the Armenian genocide, the North-Cyprus occupation, Ergenekon, and other issues offending "Turkishness":E

For the record, THY owes a pay increase to all employees members of Hava-Is (HAVA- (http://www.havais.org.tr)) over 18 months of backdated pay. Is this the future venue you are seeking for you and family members?

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Professor Fevzi Yılmaz appointed mediator in THY dispute
Tuesday, 10 April 2012

Yesterday, in line with the provisions specified under The Collective Labour Agreement, Strike and Lock-Out Law (No. 2822), the competent authority, appointed Professor Fevzi Yılmaz as the mediator in the presence of both parties.

Legal representatives of Turkish Airlines affix an objection annotation maintaining that a mediator should be appointed by the court. This indicates that THY management aims to postpone the bargaining process and is behaving in bad faith. THY management can even open a court case against the appointment of Mr. Yılmaz as the mediator.

The term of duty of the official mediator shall start on the date on which the notice of the court is delivered to him.

One trap that many foreigners joining on the 320 or 737 must be made aware of, is the seniority scheme awaiting them at THY. It is a perfectly natural expectation for pilots joining such massive carrier like THY in terms of number and types of airplanes, to aspire becoming part of a team that will give them the chance to develop their careers and move to one of the long haul fleets. It won't take long for a newcomer to understand that chances are he/her will never be allowed to join this “select club” , they have a way of making you understand this. Later on one realizes that all expats are being shoved into a “Expat Seniority List” or whatever they call it, and this has curious implications, you become a kind of “ghost employee” hidden away in a separate group of pilots that has no rights at all, regarding upgrades in their careers. Nasty surprises keep on coming up as long as you stay here, remember whatever the lies you are told during the interview process, you are joining an outfit that desperately needs you for the short term, but doesn’t like,value or want you.

Latest rumors from THY:
THY are wondering why they do not have any applicants to the CPT. positions.
Yeeah WHY!!!!!!!

I´m wondering why they wonder :)

Not only that, but why would anyone want to join Turkish when they have dishonoured their current Captains.

We were all told we would get a 3 year contract after the first year, and when the time came we only get renewed for 1 year! That is not what I was promised, and if I knew I would be on a 1 year rolling contract that gives me no job security at all, I would never have joined.

THY seem to think they can do whatever they want with no repercussions at all. Pilots talk on here and I only hope this thread helps someone to make the right decision if they are considering this place.

Day to day the job is pleasant, but the second I get a more secure job I'm out of here in a flash.

Niss...I wouldn't be surprised if they were really wondering why, we have to try and place ourselves in their position. If you take into account that Turkey is a very difficult place to make a living for almost everyone in the country, thanks to it's extremely low average income, high cost of living and inflation, and the then you add to this recipe a very limited knowledge of what is happening beyond borders, you will realize that it is plausible that most of THY's personnel and management simply fail to understand the reasons behind the massive pilot resignation and limited number of pilots applying. The average middle class educated turkish citizen lives day-by-day with monthly incomes of a couple hundred Euros, including the staff that we deal with, that makes our income a small fortune in comparison. Another fact we have to take into account is that the turks are used to hardship, so our problems seem insignificant to them, it's a cultural shock. The way I see it , this flag carrier was forced by circumstances to hire foreigners and naturally(in a naïve way) assumed that it would be an honour and a privilege for those joining as direct entry captains to enjoy the same conditions that are so difficult to achieve by so many locals. Imagine this happening in Air France or BA , unthinkable, so we have to use a bit of psychology to avoid falling into the same trap that they have fallen into, demonizing the other side due to lack of understanding of what makes them “tick”, lack of situational awareness. They were simply unprepared to deal with expat pilots , they miss the brain power with international corporate experience at all levels of their management machine to be able to face this challenge.
Naturally , it is not our fault that things are the way they are and we should not pay with our lives and of our love ones for their lack of world experience, and if the company wants to call experienced professionals then it should do it in a honourable way.
As I mentioned before, It's corporate schizofrenia , no drugs in sight for this one.
:eek:

Stay away from this outfit.S.....:E

Latest result from in-house English level tests revealed Turkish Pilots average about level 2. The press in Turkey gave most corporate multinational business workers an "F", or the equivalent of level 1 perhaps.

This audit did not change the fate of high level managers whom today and in past administrations could simply not communicate with foreign Captains. The same thing with the cause of the accident in AMS back in 2009, which was hidden even to auditing CAA from Netherlands in Turkey. It is vox populi amongst THY pilots & management at the time, that the Turkish Captain of that flight had over 130hrs on the clock in the last 30 calendar days. They still blame Boeing for the faulty RA; It is hard to be humble, and that goes from the top.

Thank you all for advice and suggestions, but is anyone out there with recent assessment experience to share?

many thanks

dignified... I thought about what you have just disclosed many times, returning from an all nighter or a 4 sector day after consecutive days with 11+ hours duty time. Fatigue is a very plausible cause for the complete lack of situational awareness that happened in that cockpit. Complacency, reduced scan ability and the wrong notion that the fellow next to you is in better conditions ,are just a few of the effects on crews. I have experienced fatigue and usually it kicks in during the last flight or during the approach phase after a long night, I believe it happens to everybody working in these conditions. I guess the recent reduction in flight crew resting time and the increase in weekly duty time is their way of dealing with the problem. Maybe after the next hull loss they will wake up to reality. Pathetic greedy management trolls, when will this bunch start facing justice for gambling with human life?

Don't waste your time..:=

they need to offer more cash and a commuting contract or better days off patterns.

my thoughts

more money.....9000 euros plus housing for example for 80hrs and 20 on 10 off.....will be a start




250 short? whoaaaa

We got multiple emails recently expressing sadness about the young man who collapsed in front of his wife and two daughters while trying to peel some fruits from the kitchen. A stroke or sudden heart attack of a man under 40 is rather unusual, but when it hits, it hits harder than those up in age.
THY present management is experimenting with civilian rule using military vindictiveness strategies, and they seem happy controlling the subdued pilot group, at least the local one. The recent death of an Onur air pilot in Amman opening the L1 door, and this latest occurrence are hitherto indications of steering the ship in the wrong direction. MoT and DGCA in conjunction with THY are now redesigning new strategies of work that includes repression, and cost reduction, at the expense of innocent and hardworking employees who only desire to feed their nest specially in times of financial troubles.
But one thing is unacceptable, I was perplexed yesterday seeing the Snr V.P Ops or CP, whatever he wants to be called, sending emails to pilot comrads to feed the family of the besieged pilot; I consider this an affront to managerial strategies if not a disrespectful approach to the subject; Has he forgotten that the company he so proudly represents is 18 months in arrears of backdated pay for which they continue playing games with the union? This guy sits on a comfortable office room in a dumped building nearby the airport , flies maybe 10 hours a month, pretends he is Charles Lindberg and now wants to fill in the gaps of an infamous company at the expense of decent airmen? ARE THERE ANY ETHICS LEFT BEHIND IN THIS OUTFIT??:=:yuk:

You have made me one who won't venture there, thanks for the word.

Not long ago, my "Midnight Express" crossed the border, so I'm now part of the statistics .Good luck to all :ok:

Heard Turkish diverted to NBO on fri due to
tailwind landing on runway 05 in Mogadishu.
Any truth to that or did they divert for another
reason?

Don't do the turkish airline assessment :
unless you need one week holiday don't go to this assessment. you arrive on sunday you don't receive a program, it's a day to day event first day document check, then you finished, the second day you have a sort of psychological test just for fun, and an internal english test you can't use it for the renew of your license.....
Then you go back to the hotel, then you receive an email when you're suppose to do your sim check, also for that you will need almost all the day to do 1 hour of test..... then ..... back to the hotel. then you have to monitor email to know if you're ok for the interview........
Maybe you will have it the last day and it will be your problem if you miss the flight.....
So if you need a week holiday in Istanbul ok, if you need a job..... better to say home )))))

What about SFI A320 job ?
Can some soul post info about ?
Tks

Supposely they increased the salary I was told by a 777 captain who flies for Turkish.


What is the new pay and schedule for a 737 captain?

Is it permanent now or still 1 year contract

From what I have learned THY is still stalling legal union negotiations about the 2011 pay not to mention 2012 and now THY and the Turkish Goverment is working towards a total ban on strike possibility by the airlines pilots so I don't think the pay raise has been given. The offer through Sigma is still 1 year renewable without real commuting possibility unless 2 days home every month makes you happy.
They have to come up with 4 days + 2 traveling days, 6 days together, and some kind of International ID Tickets on own airline to make it attractive for a family with kids - but my info is about 2 weeks old.

At Marco737.. segato eh?

The airline has steadily been creating cabin crew jobs, pilot jobs and maintenance jobs through its fleet expansion in recent years. It has grown from 100 aircraft in 2006 to 153 in 2012, with that number expected to grow to 190 by the end of the year.

Mr Kotil said that he hoped to see passenger figures of 38 million for 2012, with revenues of $7.8 billion.

Interesting article, one would only wonder, where would they park those additional 37 aircraft, and who is going to fly them??

THY present management at the helm of this CEO play to peoples fantasies....
The truth is often avoided because it is ugly and unpleasant. (THY AMS accident); Never appeal to truth and reality unless you are prepared for the anger that comes from disenchantment. Life is so harsh and distressing that people who can manufacture romance or conjure up fantasy are like oases in the desert.

Today's resolve of THY Flight Attendants and Technical Engineers who voiced their support for democratic values to remain in Turkey is historical. Sadly enough the pilot group lacks this courage and enthusiasm for essential values of freedom of speech. :yuk:

The struggle continues
Members of Hava-Is have announced a new wave of ‘resistance’ protests in a bid to see off legislation outlawing strike action in the aviation industry.
The workers have pledged to renew their protests at Ataturk International Airport, a key Turkish Airlines’ hub, from 17:00 on 30 May.
This latest action builds on a ‘mass sick leave’ protest, which disrupted aviation services on 29 May, the day the amendment introducing the strike ban across the aviation industry was to be presented to the parliament’s plenary session.
Atilay Ayçin, Hava-Is president, explained: “This will be an open-ended protest. For us this is a question of all or nothing. We will either win or be smashed. There is no other option as we have no intention of becoming a non-functioning union.”

Any things change?

Now different agencies are accepting applications again for virtually all fleets, captains and first officers.
The positions are advertised as "permanent" this time.

Does anyone know if there are any other changes in the T&C?

Allegedly they are unchanged, except for the contract duration.

Last time around the contracts were also advertised as Permanent by the agencies... to lure the applicants to their agency.... more applicants is more bucks

It will be a Permanent contract until they don't need you!! NO JOB SECURITY HERE!!

Would be nice if they gave their current expat pilots a permanent contract before advertising this outside :mad:

Hey guys.

I would like to introduce myself. I'm in what Emirates call "F/O pool" which means I passed the assessment but I'm waiting for course date.
We've been already advised that it may take up to January 2013 or so, and, as I'm currently unemployed I've decided to start looking for something else.

Obviously the perfect job could be a 6 months well paid contract but there's nothing out there.

So, I'm thinking seriously in Turkish. I've received an email from a broker and I've applied for the F/O on the 737. I'm above the minimums required by the airline (about 3000hrs on the 738) The problem is that I wonder what happens if I pass the assessment, I start working for Turkish let's say for 6 or 7 months and then I receive a DOJ for Emirates.
My intentions are clear, leave wherever I'll be. EK is my priority right now.

Does Turkish bond you?

I've heared from some colleagues working there that they did around 9 simulators when joining. Obviously they were already rated on the type Turkish operates but, as long as they did that big amount of sims, they had some point in the contract saying they need to stay for the whole year.

Is that true? If yes, what happens if you leave? Do they ask you for money?

That's it. I'm just looking for some job to make some money and hours while waiting for EK and wondering if going to Turkish could be a good idea or just a head-ache!

Thank you!

Training will take 4 month.
Yes, they will claim money if u do not fulfill the contract.

@<hidden> archer

Try this, 6 months contract....

(UPDATED) B737-EFIS TRI Captain and First Officer ? 6 Month Summer Contract - Europe - FD (436)-Latest Pilot Jobs-Latest Pilot Jobs (http://latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/519.html)

CP

Thank you guys for the info.

niss

I've been looking in the conditions and there is nothing like bond. Is about local law which says a worker not complying with a temporal contract must pay for the remaining of it?
I guess then the amount of money to pay is X months left by basic salary each. Could be a lot of money then.

CaptainProp

I will re-apply but the first time they just forgot me.
I have to say that all my 3k hours on the 737 are in the NG. Seems like companies and recruiters like to much to make difference between NG and EFIS which in my opinion is stupid. My TR in my JAA ATPL license says B737-300/900. To pass from NG to CL and so you only need a difference course which usually means a couple of ground classes and 1 sim. Not a big deal but...

Thanks!!!

Dear All, I am new to this forum. Going for Turkish screening on 8th July. Can anyone has any idea what to expect for written and sims?

Hello,

may i ask you if you have any info. concerning the latest assessment carried out by THY for joining Fo's. I really appreciate any info.

Hi guys,I'm a FO with A330 type rating,and just checked Parc Aviation jon review then found out the oppoutunity.Wondering anybody knows about the salary package and the environment in Turkish Airlines?

I appreciate

No need for a union ?

So the dear Mr Hamdi TOPÇU, Chairman Of The Board Of Directors, is going to cover the inflation so his employees have not lost any money over the last two years where he has not bothered about completing the 2011 negotiations and it looks like he is planning all by himself without any unionforce to give 30 days vacation to all like in most competing companies instead of only 20 days a year including monthly OFF Days as the THY pilots and Expats have it offered right now (not the first year of course, only after first year of employment) - does he not tell THY employees are better off than compeeting companies ? while working 1000 Blockhours a year in a chaotic schedule :ugh:

Noone can believe a man who needs his friends in the government to enforce a "No Strike Law" to run a company.

Does anyone understand that letter??

Turkish must you guys difficult very language expat to be a learn for...

Best Barbaric Airlines 2012....

THYTHY ;) Yes you are so right, it is a bit of a challenge to be Expat and try to stay up-to-date with informations from the Management. Lucky that most operational information from THY Managers are distributed in both Turkish and English.
What you see above from the Chairman is a very good sample of what happens when notifications are brought only in native language and we are left with only Google-Copy/Paste-Translate to get an idea of what is going on. With a little luck you might get the idea though :-)

No doubt the Chairman wants all of us to be proud and happy to be part of THY and no doubt he is trying to express his life as manager would be much easier without a Union to represent his workforce in the ongoing pay and work condition negotiations - Just a shame he does not put the same effort in closing these negotiations and settle the pay dispute for 2011-2012 and the work condition issues that at the present allows 110 Blockhours monthly in an ever changing schedule. Stalling such negotiations have never had a positive effect on production.

FLY SAFE out there :-)

Any info concerning A340 DEC assessment would be appreciated !!!!!:ok:

yanbancypilot and every one else posting here:
I would suggest you read your posts twice before pressing submit.

It is one thing to criticize an airline and its management and quite another to post statements that also bring an entire country and people into disrepute.

Also, Google Translate on a letter tends to come out all wrong especially in Turkish. If you can relay the original text I will be glad to summarize if not completely translate it.

Why waste the time ????
Lol
Otto

Otto... why must you answer everything with such negativity. Surely you dont work for THY. Anyone who hates his employer with such passion as you (this is if you work for them) surely doesnt stay for more than a month or two. Assuming you are employable elsewhere...:ugh:

Where did I offend Turkey or Turkish people ? By calling THY " barbaric" ?
Well..the treatment reserved to pilots, especially on narrow bodies , as the Princes flying long haul have quite incredibly a different deal , is to say the least " barbaric " . 7 days off....110 hours per month ?? Not even the worst European charter operator would impose that. How the best European Airline ? Do you think LH or AF pilots have 7 days off and 18 days of leave and fly 95 to 105 hours a month with all sort of roster changes ? Or do you think that they don't get their full salary if they get sick and are forced to go trough a painstaking procedure each time they get a cold ? Being 'European" implies embracing a certain type of attitude that I don' t see here. I see instead a lot of box ticking and a lot of people engaging the autopilot at minimum altitude and hoping for the best and a lot of people that cannot speak a sufficient level of English to deal with non standard situation or emergencies.I think this is why the pilot category here is so weak. It is too easy to shut them up cause they know not many would be able to find a job elsewhere. The one that can did and many Turkish pilots left to Pegasus or to teh Gulf carriers. Do you imagine Airfrance pilot resigning to go to work for Ryanair or to the Gulf?
In "Europe" employer are not allowed to fire 305 employees on the spot and don't tend to have the Government change the labor law in their favor from one day to the other. That happens in the Arabic peninsula may be.
Too easy having a European face in marketing and a Gulf style unilateral approach in managing.

International Transport Workers' Federation: Reinstate the 305 at Turkish Airlines (http://www.reinstate305.org)

Turkish Airlines .....Brutally yours

I seem to agree with "Payscale", the problem is not THY and it's brutally yours management; the problem lies in the quality of pilots working for THY. Let me give you an illustration that was rather frustrating, most recently coming from the Yabanci forum admin, and I quote:

"18. July some money just showed up on my Current Account in Yapi Kredi named "THYA-AVANS-ÖDEMESI" without any explanation.
A fair guess and with a little help from Google it looks like some kind of advance payment but for what and why.??
Have any of you heard any explanation ? Does it relate to normal pay and Ramadan or does it relate to the 23. Bargin negotiations ?

This guy runs the Yabanci pilot forum for THY, and naively want's to know why and how he got a "bone" thrown out in his bank account by THY?
Has this individual heard of COLA? (Cost of living adjustment?) has anyone seen inflation and devaluation affecting their pockets monthly? Is the thieve known to you as it is known to me?

Forget Ramadan, Allah or T.Kotil would not spare a dime on Scandinavian origin pilots, specially after "The Politiken" made it clear to Turks they ain't gonna be approved beyond English level 2.

So charity starts at home, get educated or well informed. You are not going to conquer THY management by sucking "hortum" with naive and rather pathetic comments on your Yabanci forum. I vote for members "OUT", as this corner of little rats has become unbearable, at least to those of us dignified ones.:ok:

@<hidden>
I take it you are from the half occupied island my friend.. I have been to a screening in Istanbul, but you see my passport is from the free side of the island, and of course is not recognized, never mind if the rest of the world does..
So I was not hired but I guess they did me a favour, in all aspects:ok:
If the establishment has affected your life, and it has an impact on your everyday life, or you feel 'occupied' since 38 years ago, I can understand your thoughts 1000%.

@<hidden> #98

excellent ! You know exactly what you are talking about. Unfortuntely you must be an "insider" in Turkish aviation.
I couldn't write it better. I like to add, that all this we read heré is not a problem of just THY, not at all !
It's the same all over Turkey, with all Turkish operators. Intentionally I do not name them airlines.
It's all based in just their Turkish "culture" or at least what they believe their culture is.
Not to forget the heavy influence of all the Management guys with army-career which equals to Zero CRM in all divisions.
my 2 cents :bored:

seventy six!!

Finally! I've been expecting sometime, someone will make it official!

Contract is on top of the complaint list presented to CEO on the one-and-only meeting so far with expats. It was said, promised that contracts will become permanent in short due time! That's five months ago, before THY has started recruitment again. It's not happening, renewals are offered for one year only.

So, top company officer has publicly lied! :rolleyes:

The only permanent thing you can expect from this part of the world is the status quo; DO NOT COMMIT TO ANYONE.
It is the fool who always rushes to take sides. Do not commit to any side or cause but yourself. By maintaining your independence you become the master of others-playing people against each other, making them pursue you. There are tonnes of good jobs out there, be confident and patient, the last cry of the wolf was heard when they ran out of sheep:ok:

Mix two part of arrogance two part of xenophobia, one part of nationalism, one part of delusion and one part of deception. Then add an amount of senseless silly bureaucracy ( but it has to be really senseless and really silly ) some pump and circumstance and sprinkle with a good amount of incompetence and a bit of military mafia style ass covering shake well..and boom..Turkish Airlines. This mix is toxic for expat. Stay away.

You need to be in the Kitchen, with that recipy you are the Star on every cooking Show.

100 % You hit the nail on the Head. Real wonder that they are in the Star Alliance, just Alliance, no Star.

100%,but suggest you should call this unique receipe:

ALL TURKISH AIRLINES FRENZY

Those quys are something else! They pretend everything! The HR representative is an unf@<hidden>@<hidden> "lady", with many inferiority complexes, and after the 6 !!!!!! hours CRM she pretends that she is interviewing....The sim assessment isn't bad, the pilots are ok, but the most important is the opinion of this , let's say..."lady".
From a team of 22 pilots on 320-330, no one was successful.
Is it just a coincidence?
Stay away from this crap.
Alliance, maybe, star? No way!
A bag full of s@<hidden>
:mad:

REFUGEE, my man, don't you know what is being said about Turks?
"Beware of Turks, even if they are presenting gifts"!
Next time ask, what is going on here.....
A terrible mess!
You just escaped !!!
HR is getting the stick, pilots are under control!
Be happy!

Well, from my group of around 20 we went in 16 so... Sorry to hear that you did not.

I have a doubt, you talk about the sim. As you know, to get to the sim you need to have the OK from the english test and the HTA (psychologist, 5 hours... pretty hard as you said). So, I assume that if you were kicked out of the procedure after the sim was because of the sim. Simple.

I have a close friend that failed this week after the HTA, he was not able to attend the sim as he was told to go home after the HTA. So, what is your point? You blame only the HR representative and the psychologist because of the HTA but apparently you did not pass the sim, which is another thing.

Just curious.

Are really so so bad the work conditions for a pilot on the 737?

Maybe your group was composed from extra Von Richthovens.....
C'mon , do you believe that all those fail in sim????::*:=

No I don't, as I don't think that you all missed the HTA. You know, my opinion is that they found the good number of pilots and now they're just wasting peoples time.
But it makes sense to advise people that you can easily fail the HTA or the sim even if you feel you did it ok.
Good luck!

:{:{:{they found the good number of pilots :{:{:{

My bet is that they are looking for 2 fundamental qualities in the screenings, first they need people that will not break their shiny birds , for that they have an unlimited supply at an arm's reach. Finally they are looking for strong traces of masochism that will prevent these foreigners from running away as soon as they realize where they are, like hundreds did before.

Would you just stop moaning and tell us exactly how much payraise you just got and how far back dated is it....? What a sunshine story that is. Do tell....

somebody of you know how is the roster pattern for a first officer?
There is the chance to have every month some days off together for return home?

UCHY ..... Are you Yoda from Star Wars??

Hi,

Can anyone give us some feedback about this HTA test they are conducting? Where to study? Can you find something similar on internet? (can you buy it)

Also the sim check. I am flying 737NG, so anyone who passed or not the screening, can please share feedback.

I haven't got any job, and would work for them, I've been in much shitty place in the world. Believe me, it does exist.

Thanx

For twentyyearstoolate:
???????

Working groups of employees to share their problems, as well as conflict resolution, team work are carried out to improve production efficiency.:zzz::mad:

You may not have made it if you answered 'yes' to the following Q? :

1. Are you a professional pilot? yes
2. Is your English level 4 or more? yes
3. Days Off are to rest, they are not negotiable? yes
4. Do you like freedom of speech? yes
5. I never admired soldiers since I was a child? yes
6. Do you support Armenian genocide? yes
9. Do you believe in Cyprus occupation in 1974? yes

From a team of 22 pilots on 320-330, no one was successful.
Is it just a coincidence?
Stay away from this crap.
Alliance, maybe, star? No way!
A bag full of s@<hidden> - Quoted from a brilliant candidate!:eek:

Dignified, why did you apply in the first place?

dignified

Some around 14 posts and ALL talking about THY or Turkey.

None aviation related, technical or "constructing" info, just kicking Turkish asses.
Problem with them? Explain us, get over it and move to the next thing.
We all appreciated your info, we will refuse any THY employment offer and stay at home, sure the apartment and bills will be payed by themselves.

Thank you again.

Well said Archer,

If I like it or not, it's my problem and opinion. As Archer said, bills won't pay themeselves. There are shittier place in the world, believe me. If you expecting Emirates level of life, than that's not the place to apply for. I'm sorry that you failed the exercice, but get over it.

Thanx anyway guys for your feedback guys and wish you all, the best.

""But it makes sense to advise people that you can easily fail the HTA or the sim even if you feel you did it ok.""
Good luck!

Ohh Archer_737, I do not not what to do with you, and your desperate need for a job,:( but hope my comment below help your self-esteem:

It sure does take a big toll in our lives to be outta of job. However, I think adversity is a way to examine our past, to an open door for opportunity.
My point with previous threads is simple: THY, and other Turkish airliners pilot recruitment need to concentrate not on HTA or SIM, but the cultural differences any foreigner will face here; They already know you have a bag of experience to have been called out on the first place, but want to ascertain you fit in the system, which is nothing but xenophobic.

Maybe an illustration may help: The foreign force at THY reached about 447 pilots as of May 2011. As of May/2012 the company lost 147 foreign pilots, more than 25% of the force. The CEO invited back in April/2012 a group of yabanci pilots to officially offer a series of concessions to anyone who had survived over three years of contractual employment; Shortly thereafter all Fleet Managers invited all foreigners to participate in inviting their colleagues to join THY despite their tarnished image worldwide as verified on this website. The turn out was minimal if not in absentia.

Some of this pilots came out of this meeting very happy, very optimistic, to find out this meeting chaired by the CEO & COO of the company was nothing but a charade of lies and deception. Those foreigners who worked at THY more than three years were taken away from the official seniority list, since year 2011 on a move from flight operations in retaliation for the comments made in a Danish newspaper. Over seven (7) Scandinavian pilots resigned from THY based on the poor or non existent level of English language, still pervading as mediocre among management and senior Turkish pilots who have gotten away with it for over 20 years of service. THY & DGCA imposed most recently English exams as a result of this scandal. The victims? Foreign pilots who are still here working their ass for a stable job, but who are lied to, while they need them. The fact of the matter is, THY without foreign pilots means the English Levels would revert to 2 or below. Turkish pilots are simply opportunist who use our abilities to enhance THY reputation. (See the thread on YouTube of a B777 flight from IST/NRT. -none of the pilots on that flight were of Turkish Nationality, they may have been an embarrassment to the "Globally yours concept")

End of May 2012, Foreign pilots were also caught in the middle of a battle between Ankara-THY and Hava-is, in which the only objective was to destroy the pilot union. THY is the only airline with a pilot union in Turkey, the other airliners forbid that right and you can be jailed or lose your employment permit if found guilty. Two courageous Captains dared to appear on local T.V supporting the Union claims, and they were served termination by SMS, without parole.:eek::oh: International Transport Workers' Federation: Reinstate the 305 at Turkish Airlines (http://www.reinstate305.org)
If this is the case with THY pilots, imagine the rest??:ugh:

So, if you so desire a job here, beware of the martial law, a life in solitude and confined to be a retarded soldier routine or else face the sack. If you fit this job description, go for it, just avoid farting in public, or showing your dick in a Turkish hamam; you may end being arrested for terrorism or demeaning Islam . :yuk:

dignified

Thank you very much again for your advise. I promise I'm calling right now the guys from THY and telling them that I am staying at home, promised!

Btw, would like to agree with you with my "desperate need for a job". Unfortunately I am from those who has to work for money, yes still some people like that in the world. Damn bastards!!

And, just to add.

It is funny to see a self called "dignified" (synonym of "honorable") kidding about the unemployment of a colleague.
Speaks volumes about your human touch. Maybe not only the Turkish must reflect on their behavior.

Archer, I presented you with the facts, it is now between your self-esteem and your quest for the right job. Good luck!:ok:

Hi Guys,

Could any current THY FO preferably 737 and recently gone through the screening process please contact me via PM Thanks,

Jack.

Hi

I am also going for the screening. I am doing it Oct. 8th for a320 F/O.

Any good tips would be highly appreciated.

Thanks!

Danishpilot80 & Jack-the-Skipper

Good luck in your careers chaps; now that THY offers permanent contracts, you will retire as a F/O's with as you will enter a foreign seniority list, and never progress into Command. After all it is a job and pay is always on time; One great benefit for F/O's in this country is that in Turkey they call you "Kaptain", except if you are the third wheel for which there is a box on the flight plan called "First Officer", after "Captain" and "Commander". Some of the former foreigner and local F/O's went for looking for jobs elsewhere with "Kaptain" credentials, and were offered direct entry Captain position.:}:ok:
A local university graduate is picked by THY to join as First Officer after they pay his training for two years to make him a pilot with total time of 240hrs. They call this blokes "Captain" this and that, and sometimes addressed by cleaners and technicians as "Hojam", meaning "master", so feel free to ask any questions on your interview, and make no mistake, you will be "Kaptains" from day one!:D

Re : Hojam

Actually correct word is "Hocam", in daily usage it means "My teacher". Translating it as "master" is a little bit stretch. A Turk will prefer to use "Efendim" instead.

Try some translating engine such as giggle.

Hi There,

Just been to an assessment with THY. We been about 14 guy, all freom europen Airlines among the candidates TRI and TRE etc.
We all failed! Jet it is not really clear to us why? But the whole selection process seemed very strange.
In particular that psychiatrist seemed to be very spezial to say the least.

We do not understand what she was looking for? It all seemed very strange. I mean you would expect that just one of us is normal an would fit into THY. But no, no one passed. Having said that, bare in mind that all the guys had more then ten year of flying under their belt and some of them in senior training positions!

I would think twice before going for THY.

Trying to look sane when you should look completely insane...quality required to withstand the wonders awaiting you.

Jet... it looked spezial!

been away for a while,,, can ayone tell me who or how to apply to THY or do we still have to go thru pesky agencies who never reply?

Only respectful and positive replies please

Not sure if you can apply direct FlyDog but yes the agencies seem to be on the
lookout. seeing the replies above better go in and act like a loon:bored:

Flydog. you have to mail Sigma Aviation and they reply for sure. Don't Know what happened with that psy That day but many are happy with THY.

Hi all,

Just quick question about the recruitment procedure. I passed or was given the verbal "pass" at my assessment last week with THY. Of 12 guys, we were only 2 remaining. But mostly people failed at the sim, not the Psychological or english test.

Anyway, I emailed Parc, today, and they said that the final decison would be taken by THY board of directors before sending me an offer letter.
This means, that even if you pass all the assessment, you're still pending to the board's decision.
Has anyone been through this thing before? Is it possible that they might not hire you after all this selection process, even if you were successful?

If anyone has some info or feedback, feel free to shoot.

Thanks and good luck to all waiting for assessments

Hi flyer79, not to discourage you, but screening in THY seem all too very strange and unpredictable. Best of luck.:ok:

I know mostly pilots are pissed here. Let me give you an idea of a non pilot exp but work closely with pilots. For English exams which Turkish civil aviation requested recently, a guy who can't speak a word of it able to get the min mark required by civil aviation. I can't figure out how that's possible.

The best part at the start of the exam all instructions were given in Turkish in which they are testing your English.this shit is the best I ever seen in any part of the world.

They really beat the world set a mark whereby everyone passes which beat the purpose.

As to all the pilots failing the psych., exam....perhaps the psychologist has it right. You must be a little "crazy" to want to come fly with THY. Saving you from yourself. Hey only kidding, I think.

Lots of Pilots still applying to THY, screening failure rate at and over 90%, why are Pilots still applying to Turkish airlines when time could be used in a more usefull manner with other airlines?

Because some of them get the job :ok:

Pilots with JAR licenses are still applying cause they are desperate. Job outlook worldwide is still bleak !

Also Istanbul is close to most major European hubs so commuting within the EU is easy. That's another reason why people apply. THY has a good PR department with lots of cash spent on publicity , makes them look like a decent outfit.

Well THY is probably a decent outfit. it just sucks when you're treated unfairly because you're a foreigner.

Any positive advise for my interview next month, please? I need some more motivation for NG Captain's position with THY......:*

Hi eagle 737,

From your location, I'm betting you must be coming from Jet Airways. Am I wrong? lol
I've seen many of your colleagues down there when I did my assessment. Some had already started others still on waiting list.

There's not much I can tell you that would help you. I asked the same questions on that forum and other nice guys (they will recokgnize themselves) came to rescue me by feedbacking me in PM.

Day 1: psycho. Be assertive, and do not hesitate to speak up your ideas. There will be camera recording you.
Try to work with the group during the exercice. Because you're a captain, they might also be looking for leadership. At the end just be yourself. All these psycho tests (and i have done many in my career) are all strange, unoredictable and even probably inaccurate, because they don't show you in real life situation. So if they wanna pass you, they will, otherwise....nothing you can do about.

Day2: English. Just read on the screen and also explain situation, after being shown a picture. Not very tough, althoug, on british lady in my group failed it.....!!!!! Strange.

Day3: Sim. For the 737, it's ISTANBULbut study also ANKARA (never know). 2 engines raw data, followed by ILS raw data, strong crosswind and Go Around.

Then N-1, with FD, but no QRH actions to read and complete.
Single engine manual circuit. (I found that one hard).

I must say that the sim has terminated many guy's hope in the group. This is where they sacked half of the guys.

Good luck to you.

I must add that sim profile won't be the same always and for everyone. Mine was more or less as our colleague said before, but all the session was performed in raw data.
Climb straight to 5000', then left descending... etc etc etc You end up in a final vector for the ILS raw data procedure (same rwy you took off before in IST).
Be careful, if they want you to go around they won't tell you Go Around, as if they were ATC. For me, they putted a f:mad: 747 in the rwy. Yes, a Jumbo is a big guy but flying down to minimums, going out of clouds and having a shit of visual in the sim... it is hard to see it. Pay attention to the strobe lights, will really help.

And thats it. Nothing more to add.

Do you need positive feedback to be sure to join the airline? Don't know much about Captain position conditions but for FOs salary is probably the highest available in the market now (not talking about EK, EY, QR...) and I remark AVAILABLE.
Don't come here guys and tell me that BA or AF guys are having much better salaries because these companies aren't hiring, right?

Good luck!

Any more info needed just send me PM. I'm joining the company soon, will be able to give you more accurate feedback in a couple of weeks.

Informations for all ,
ICAO Licenses are not going to be accepted by the GCAA in future and all whare currently in THY will not have their validations renewed as of now, first leaving early December, this will afect almost 100 forein pilots curently working for them.
Management in chaos, nothing new you say, we'll its easily solved.

cadets and Kabin Pursers CAPT😂KAPTAN and Kabin Chiefs to Kaptan and fly the rest 150 hours a month and cancel all days off and leave for Forein pilots.
Cancel all simulator training doesn't exist anyhow.

LOL
Otto

Could you please translate your post?

Cheers!

Otto..
What level of English do YOU have on your license?

I think the real news is the cooperation between Lufthansa and Turkish. Not some administrative clerk bulletin regards licensing.

greekspangermanitalic level.. 3 nothing to LOL about..

Agree with Payscale.
But just to clarify it is not the Turkish GCAA not accepting ICAO licenses anymore but it is the new EASA regulations coming into force which, quite righteously, requires you to have an EASA license to work in an EASA member state. No validation possible anymore. You can still obtain a EASA license by passing the needed theoretical and practical exams.Turkey is JAA and therefore will become EASA. Same would apply in any other EASA ( European) state

So nothing has changed

Turkey is JAA and therefore will become EASA.....are you really shure ???
I have my doubts that there will be an automatic changeover from JAA to EASA membership.
Turkey - GodThanks - afaik is not EASA yet.

In Turkey 1000hrs a year is legal for instance. I have a Swedish license, will it automatically become an EASA license next time i renew it?

Turkey is a JAA state and will not automatically become an EASA state. To do so would require adoption of EASA Flight Time Limitations and all the other regulations, which would not necessarily be welcome by the THY management. There may be advantages for insurance costs, but some of the present working practices would have to change. At present some EASA states no longer accept the JAA medical from Turkey. This all begs the question, if Turkey does not adopt EASA regulations, will all Turkish JAA licences revert to just ICAO licences? Interesting times.

Gentlemen, anybody who is there can give us an update how it is working for the FOs there?

They have "updated" the T&Cs for FOs and the money is decent enough and you are employed directly by the airline.

Does anybody know if there are chances for FOs to upgrade within the airline or even switching to another type if you stay long enough as an expat?

Is there any (expat) FO that is employed by THY at present time and want to provide me with some in-depth info? Pm me please.

Is there an agency better than the others to apply?

Can anyone please give me how is the retirement program provided by THY? tks

What's a up grade time there ?
Any promise to up grade ?
Some agency's are saying 5 years verses the other ones saying no promise , any expat FO's has ever been ever up graded Yet?
Thanks :ok:

No expats has been upgraded yet, so I won't believe the agencies in this matter.
Regarding agencies, Storm worked good for me.

If you guys have any doubt can PM me, but bear in mind that I've recently joined so my knowledge of the company isn't that good.

Upgrade FO to Captain: no. Whatever agencies say.:=
Upgrade to another type: i don't think so.

Fbw390;)

Turkish DGCA wrote to all companies that the amount of foreign pilots must be reduced to protect national pilots. Companies are not allowed to have more then 25 % of there FO's to be foreigners by june 2013 and 10% by the end of 2013. No validations or work permits will be given to companies who exceed these figures.

Son yıllarda ülkemizde hava taşımacılık sektörünün büyümesine paralel olarak pilot ihtiyacı artmakta ve artan bu ihtiyaca paralel olarak yabancı pilot istihdamında artış yaşanmaktadır. Ancak, son yıllarda uçuş okullarının kapasitelerinde de artışlar yaşanmıştır. Bakanlığımız tarafından ruhsatlandırılmış işletmelerde Türk Vatandaşı pilotların istihdam edilmesi esas olup, yabancı uyruklu pilot temini ancak zorunlu ve istisnai şartlarda kullanılmalıdır. Bu nedenle yabancı uyruklu pilot istihdamı konusunda bu düzenlemenin yapılması ihtiyacı ortaya çıkmıştır."

SHGM, belirtilen tarihlerde gereklilikleri yerine getiremeyen işletmelere 2920 sayılı Türk Sivil Havacılık Kanunu'nun 143'üncü Maddesi kapsamında işlem yapacak. Belirtilen tarihlerden sonra belirlenen oranın dışında yabancı uyruklu ikinci pilotlara Genel Müdürlük tarafından validasyon/çalışma izin belgesi düzenlenmeyecek.

Kamuoyuna Saygıyla Duyurulur….

So what about the 500 German FOs rumoured to be coming down as a sort of cooperation between Lufthansa and THY?

Payscale, "Burasi Türkiye", means this is Turkey. Wich translates into that rules, laws, common sense and constitutions are only guidelines. :E

Doesnt really answer the question though...

Now that makes sense ;)

No way until Turkish FO's can work under EU countries without restriction

istikbalgoklerdedir you are being delusional. THY is not anymore a state owned airline, an Aeroclub for retired military pilot that than pass the job to their sons... Is a private company with ambitious growth plans and whose stock holders ( not only Turkish) want profit and no accidents. The model is changing.. think ME airlines. As per Turkish pilots working in EU if there was the need I would not see any problem. Turkey is a EU accession candidate and one day it probably will become a member.Dropping your xenophobic and ultranationalistic attitude would for sure help the process. Try to remember that millions of Turkish emigrants made of Europe US and Australia and the rest of the World their home and have some raki to get over it.Expat did not invite them self here and are not here to be exploited and than kicked out but , as hundreds already did thanks to some shortsighted individuals , they will leave at the first occasion..if not treated fairly..don't worry..

You are absolutely correct and highly agree with you mate!

A lot of work to be done, till reach EU standards....
It is a ME airliner, ruled by ME mentality.
A lot of incidents and accidents.
Always worrying when occupying a seat as pax.

hi there,

any THY (320?) expat pilot around here? would like to clear some questions before signing ...

thanks!

How come anyone could really answer how the screening process is held or any tips or advise,but just few?
I'm really interested.
cheers

English test, psycho, sim: strictly nothing to worry if you're a good professional. Know your pro.abn sops memory items and Limitations. No trap.;) good luck::)

Any info about time to upgrade for foreign F/O on A320?

No upgrade. You do not join the THY seniority list.

Can you explain, please?

I don'̀t think THY has plans for upgrade FO to Captain. Maybe in the far future?

Depends on the supply and demand. If they have no other choice, they will do it obviously. If they do not have to do it, they for sure will not.

They are really playing with their own reputation. I met a EU FO that at the interview was promised a normal career path and a permanent contract. But he was offered at joining a one year contract since the new contract, which should include seniority , is "not ready". They should really be careful as this attitude may have unexpected consequences. Turkey is under constant scrutiny from the EU and this kind of discrimination and lies , if it is the case, will not for sure help the process. EU accession remains , notwithstanding what Mr Erdogan goes around saying ,their top aspiration. Turkish arrogance prone and ultra- nationalistic attitude is largely the cause of the 20 years they have been waiting so far and unless they drop it a bit ..they will wait for other 20. For sure no FO will otherwise remain here to warm their seat until some of their " phenomenal ( and I'm being sarcastic) civil engineering university degree holder cadet " that appears a few too many problems landing the thing will be ready to take their place if not for the time strictly needed to find another job...

Not that the permanent contract I signed just a few days ago is such an improvement... first it will be approved after 3 months... second they can still kick me out as they like with 45 days notice.. so well...permanent... nothing in life is really permanent..imagine in Turkey.

They are doing the Ottoman style forward back back forward back back, the standards are falling again crisis management head n sand but deeper and deeper the next disaster is coming soon I am reliably informationed.
"IYI Ucuslar" all will be well in the Squadron.
Despite NO CRM ,NO TRAINING , NO PILOTING SKILL, NO SITUATION AWARE.NO RADAR , NO DEICING , NO UNDERSTANDING OF SYSTEMS OR EFFECTS OF DOWNGRADE.AND GREAT FATIGUE AS BAD ROSTER.
MAY GOD BE WITH YOU :\:mad::mad::mad:

I would be so interested in a translation for the last post. :ok:

Cheers!

last post is probably written by a Turkish person, who grew up in Germany.

he probably failed to get a job with Turkish airlines and blaming that on military background pilots.

and his English sucks.

Well Otto is a bit disconnected.. still they really need to put this act together if they really aim to compete at global level. Acknowledging and admitting you own shortcomings and limits is sign of maturity and the start of any process of improvement but everything here seem to be running on pride.. and pride kills. Playing with the careers of foreign pilot in the name of some kind of nationalistic ideal, changing the terms and conditions of the proposed deal is first stupid, than a fraud.

Yabancipilot

I understand your point but you need to see the situation from the Turkish national pilots point of view also. I would like to explain it with a very realistic example scenerio.

Lets say Air France started to expand rapidly and they are desperate for new pilots to join. I can assure you that the first requirement to join will be that you are European citizen and you are fluent in French.

I don't think that it is necessary to be fluent in any language other than English to be able to fly in an airline. So the first 2 requirements will straight away block the employment chance of about 99.9% of Turkish Pilots. This example is valid for (Lufthansa, Klm, Swiss, etc). If this is not a discrimination what is?

Lets say even after that they cannot find enough pilots with the above requirements. Then I can assure you that the agencies will start recruiting for them with an unclear career progression and with the knowledge that as soon as you are not needed you will be out.

Turkish airlines is not Emirates or Qatar airways.

There are enough Turkish pilots for the needs of Turkish airlines. These Turkish Pilots have no chance of recruitment in Europe or USA or Australia. THY needs foreign pilots only until the adequate number of Turkish pilots are trained. You have to agree with me that a flag career has to give priority to their the national pilots.

On the other hand I do agree with you that in case of Turkish airlines the existence of foreign pilots - at least for temporarily - is a good thing for CRM. If THY wants to be a global airline than they have think globally.

Thanks

Hi guys,

Recently I passed the recruitment in THY i can say it was tough but if you are a profesinal it will be no problems .The pass rate is very low out of 13 we made it 3 of us.
Just waiting for confirmation which can be as long as three weeks from my friends experience.

Easy point here.

How many turkish pilots do you know in Air France? Actually, how many spanish or british guys do you know in Air France?
And how many italians in Lufthansa? And how many expats in KLM? Alitalia? British? etc etc etc

This is a flag carrier that, as someone mentioned above, belongs to a "big" country who will soon or later meet the requirements with the locals.

My advise, come here knowing that this isn't the place to progress as a young guy. Come here as an FO to grow your hours and do some money.
If you're a captain and you're close to the retirement age, come here to spend a nice time in a nice place and do a good money and that's it.

Good news for the 320 or 737 guys. Some of them already moved from right hand seat in the "small" planes to the 330 and 777 which means having a nice 3 weeks on 1 week off (often 10 consecutive days off a month) with a nice salary and just 2 or 3 hours away from home.
But... only few cases known, let's see if they really upgrade some few more guys or if we see finally some expat FO upgrading to CPT position.

Good luck to all.

How does the future look for Turkish nationals who live in Europe with a fATPL? THY has it's own cadet pilot programme but it's hard for someone who lives in Europe to get in this cpp.

I don' t really know if it is more delusional someone expecting THY to maintain their word or someone expecting THY to succeed preserving national pride...
Think EK ? Do you think they could have been so successful and accident free if they were to employ only Arab pilots should they had enough ? Or may be the success is linked to the fact they have 113 different nationalities in their cokpit?
THY has one of the worst safety record. Can you confute this statement? Can you tell me the reason? I tell you. Turkish culture is still now largely incompatible with flight safety and modern aviation. Everything still now runs on pride..and guts and friends and family and squadron...
And it amazes me the fact that you deem appropriate lying to people to exploit their competences. Is this again Turkish culture or an Ottoman tradition? At least Korean says it clearly no upgrade.
Beside... BA opened its pool to all nationalities, LH employees many different nationalities either directly or indirectly in Alitalia/Cai many Belgian became captain there, and other nationalitiies ANA is hiring and upgrading expat on Air Japan 767 , Vietnam idem , Norvegian. same, Ryranair, Easy jet, Sky Mark Japan, Air Asia I could name dozens more... all employing foreigners with no limitations. I could not think of anything more stupid of killing expat careers to preserve national identity.

None of majors in Europe will ever employ a guy who is not proficient in their language. You may be not italian native but your mother or father is so you speak perfect italian and you get hired by Alitalia in a screening. Yes, possible.
Same for AirFrance etc... you can speak french but if you go to the interview and you have a medium-high level with some strange accent on it... forget about the job. Same in BA... and so.

Look, you mentioned EK and I don't think any Turkish pilot wants THY to become the next EK, EY or QR. They want to be what they are, a big flag carrier like BA, AF etc... and that includes having ALL native turk speakers, etc.

Take it or leave it, but don't bitch on it in every single post.
I do work for THY, they offered me a good salary and to fly brand new planes and that is it.
They offered or actually said they were giving a permanent contract and they didn't at the end. Yes this sucks and this is the main reason why I'll leave from here as soon as some reasonable offer comes. But I still think that this was the only "good" or "acceptable" offer a part of the ones in the Middle East.

The only thing you need to know when coming here is that this won't be your career place as it could be in EK for example. Accept it, understand it and then take the job.
Otherwise, if you don't want to accept that in a MAJOR you will always be a YABANCI you have a problem.

The only companies to take expats and make of them a "normal" and a "in seniority list" guy are these companies in the Middle East where they have basically no locals to fly their planes.

Or, if you're spanish like me you can always go and work for Iberia :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Btw, as I said they already moved some expats from FO 737 to FO 777. Some other, in the other hand, were told not to move because they'll need to sign a bond of 3 years in the new fleet and they were expecting them to upgrade to 737 CPT before this 3 year period.

Well that is a totally personal opinion based on personal wishes.
Flag carriers are and will be there. Some doing fine, some doing not that fine.
And yes, they do have enough locals. Plenty of british, french, german guys out there with experience. And plenty of them coming out from private schools all over the globe.
The only reason for needing pilots in THY is the "non normal" growth which is leading in a desperate need of pilots. But that will be corrected soon or late.
I hope for our own interest (mine at least) that they'll keep this needs for the next 5-10 years which maybe leads in a career progression for Yabanci FOs like me. If I can leave here after some years with few more hours and € in my pocket that will be ok. If I can do it having some hours on the left hand seat this will be more than welcomed!

What about capt upgrades from 320 to 330? Any possibilities? What about training and/or management pilot positions for those with prior experience?

Will they accept someone who has over 1600 hours 737, but not 1000 on the NG?

I am rated on the NG, but 'only' have about 250 hrs on it.

Is it a problem to not speak a lot more Turkish apart from, beer, tea and kebab?

Thanks!

Don't know if they changed the requirements but before they were asking for 500hrs on the NG and yes, below this was a NO GO.

Regarding upgrade from CPT 320 to 330... well, I would say no initially but maybe after some few years... who knows.

Does anyone working for THY as an SFI (direct or contract) have any information on the current situation. Are the conditions as negative as many posters on here imply or are they better? Couldn't find much here or in Instructor forum.

Thanks in advance SB

Turkish national carrier Turkish Airlines (THY) said on Friday it has decided to buy 117 planes from European aircraft maker Airbus, with 82 firm orders and 35 options, between the years 2015 and 2020.

Friday's announcement marks Turkey's largest single order for planes in history. The earlier record belonged to budget carrier Pegasus Airlines, 100 Airbus jetliners in a $7.5 billion deal in December.

The order consists of 25 A321-200, four A320 NEO and 88 A321 NEO aircraft , by the end of 2020, when the fleet is slated to have 375 aircraft.

Turkey ranked first... of the worst!! In front of Chile...

OECD: Countries With Worst Quality Of Life - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/oecd-countries-with-worst-quality-of-life-2013-5?op=1)

"31% of its population has the equivalent of a high school degree, and 48% of people have a paid job"

Thanks for the heads up.
But I'm sure that if you work for THY, you have at least a high school degree and a paid job!

And I guess you'll earn a little bit more than the average inhabitant...

From the level of your reply I can see your nickname is quite appropriate.
Tell me who was talking about me or you. This is about overall quality of life.Turkey ranked first of the worst...anyone can then take his own conclusions.. intiende ?? No no...no creo che intiende...:ugh: Go and ask the people being at this very moment attacked by the police in the attempt to preserve a little of green downtown... read the news ? No ah? Right you have diploma and a job.. **** the rest of world..:mad:
Someone is trying to sell Turkey as a civilized place.. but sorry it isn't and it is heading the wrong direction..

I don't disagree with you on that, but this thread is about THY, not Turkey and it's quality of life or it's government.
Yes, THY is partly state owned, but the situation in Turkey does not represent the situation at THY.

I never said that I don't care about the rest of the world. I'm saying that working for THY doesn't make you part of the statistics you shared. Hence, it's irrelevant to this thread.

Bus Driver Man I feel offended. You are the manifest to the risible level of intellectuality this category has come to. How is it possible that , living and working in Turkey you are not affected by the events there? What if a widespread insurgency comes and THY get screwed...what if they magnificent plans go wrong.. You will be the first out. I'm sure you hang pictures of naked woman on your bus.. do you? Anything hanging from the overhead panel..??

cucuotto

Bus Driver Man I feel offended.

instead of feeling offended, why don't you relax with a good glass of wine. didn't you embarrass yourself enough on the italian forum?

tz

Why don't you mind your zoan business..I feel free of "embarassing" my self whereever and whenever I zoan want. I still believe freedom of speech being a fundamental right. But I do understand that your background , a youth spent in a barrack playing war at the expenses of Italian tax payer with no real purpose and you present oppressive experience in the desert did not really helped you developing a sense for right or wrong. I feel for you and unlike you I need no wine as I'm 100% relaxed my friend ..fully enjoying the beautiful Turkish summer. I love this country and I hope will not go for the worst..... How is slavery in Dubai my friend and ,by the way,..how is your BMI doing?

any info on what to expect at interview/assessment is much appreciated.

cucuotto

how is your BMI doing?

very well thanks. I think you're targeting the wrong guy..:D:D
don't you get tired of being wrong ALL the time?

with no real purpose

actually if the purpose was defending your lot and family you might be right, for a change...

tz

Bus Driver Man I feel offended. You are the manifest to the risible level of intellectuality this category has come to. How is it possible that , living and working in Turkey you are not affected by the events there? What if a widespread insurgency comes and THY get screwed...what if they magnificent plans go wrong.. You will be the first out. I'm sure you hang pictures of naked woman on your bus.. do you? Anything hanging from the overhead panel..??
Oh my, I even agree with Yabancypilot on the situation in Turkey and I get this reply from you?
Try not to misinterpret my posts before giving a disrespectful reply like that.

Yabancypilot can keep informing everyone on how bad it is in Turkey and THY, but just like you, I'm enjoying this country and I hope it will last as long as possible.

Yes, there are negative things as well, but you know them in advance and everybody decides for himself to come here or not.

The Zohan is right. You need to relax.
And also, try to show some respect to others. I know it can be hard on a anonymous forum where the average level of replies is decreasing everyday.

BDM
The level of incompetence is rising daily as is the level of safety related incidents most are not even reported, glad to be out.
IYI UCUSLAR
post script look at the news in the last few days its been coming for a long time.
ALT

BDM
The level of incompetence is rising daily as is the level of safety related incidents most are not even reported, glad to be out.
IYI UCUSLAR
post script look at the news in the last few days its been coming for a long time.
ALT
I suppose you have solid Quantifiable evidence to your accusations? not just some media columns and a few disgruntled x-employees

so im sure you have the number to consider the following:
the extra equipment (aircraft) that has been added to the inventory
the increase in frequency of fights
Increase in personnel
the increase in new destinations
etcc


and you have and the maths to substantiate your accusation?