View Full Version : Holding Speeds, can somebody please confirm?


truckflyer
15th Mar 2012, 01:15
In regards to Holding Speeds, what are the exact speeds within JAA?

I have this information from New Pans-Ops:
Up to 14.000 ft : 230 kts - Turbulence: 280 kts
14 to 20.000 ft: 240 kts - Turb.: 280 kts or 0.80 Mach
20 to 34.000 ft: 265 kts - Turb.: 280 kts or 0.80 Mach
Above 34.000 ft: 0.83 Mach 0.83 Mach

Is this the correct speeds? Please somebody can give me some external ref



mad_jock
15th Mar 2012, 02:17
Holding speeds are defined in your flight manual for the aircraft.

Those speeds are for the design of the protected area around the hold.

There are a hellva lot of aircraft that's Vmo is less than 230knts below 10k.

Nobody cares what speed you hold at in a hold as long as you stay in the protected area.

And if anyone wanted me to hold at 230knts at sub 14k I would refuse because it would burn stupid amounts of fuel for no reason.

truckflyer
15th Mar 2012, 10:07
I am looking for the Text Book Answer for MAX hold speeds for Cat C aircraft.

I doubt the interviewer would appreciate such an answer, I need the hard cold facts numbers, not number that what somebody feels are right!

I know there are Max speed limits for various altitudes, however I have read different numbers from different sources, I want to confirm what is the correct one!

Max Hold speeds in JAA/EASA airspace, as I know these are not the same with the FAA!

Dan the weegie
15th Mar 2012, 10:33
The correct one is the one in the flight manual :) That is the correct answer.

mad_jock
15th Mar 2012, 10:38
NATS | AIS - Home (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php.html)

It will be in there somewhere for the UK.

Apart from the differences

ICAO Document 8168, Volume II seems to be the bible.

truckflyer
15th Mar 2012, 11:10
I am looking for JAA MAX hold speeds, from the table below there is a difference from FAA and ICAO, I have found my details in Pan Ops, I wonder if JAA have different MAX speeds.

Please you smart guys who only want to refer to the aircraft flight manual, that is fine, that is not the answer I am looking for. I am NOT looking for a type specific answer, I am looking for a general legal requirement.

Checked NATS, and the part about HOLDS, and not mentioned anything there.


FAA:
Up to 6,000 ft MSL: 200 KIAS
From 6,001 to 14,000 ft MSL: 230 KIAS
14,001 ft MSL and above: 265 KIAS


The ICAO Maximum holding speeds:

Up to 14000 ft: 230kts
14000 ft to 20000 ft: 240kts
20000 ft to 34000 ft: 265kts
Above 34000 ft: M0.83

mad_jock
15th Mar 2012, 11:51
It does in the enroute section and says 220knts in the london TMA and ICAO max speed everywhere else.

truckflyer
15th Mar 2012, 14:42
Well I know what ICAO is, I am trying to find out what is the correct requirements for EU/JAA/EASA.

I am looking in the book Pilotreference and gives me this information:

Up to 6000 ft : 210 kts
6000 - 14000 ft: 220 Kts
Above 14000 ft: 240 kts

(turbulence 280 kts or M0.8)

I am assuming this book is wrong, as also checked with a Jeppesen book, which gives same information as ICAO.

mad_jock
15th Mar 2012, 15:05
The book is wrong then.

PANOPS3 points you to that ICAO document.

corporate-pilot
15th Mar 2012, 18:29
Check your Aircraft Flight Manual :ok:

corporate-pilot
15th Mar 2012, 18:51
I know, I was being a bit naughty as I thought some of the responses to your answers came across as a bit "unfriendly".

mad_jock
15th Mar 2012, 19:09
I took it to be a stressed out first interview type pilot.

I would be willing to bet they won't be asked the question though.

It will be something along the lines of.

Between a thin section wing and a thick section wing which one is more prone to icing.

truckflyer
15th Mar 2012, 19:44
Sorry if somebody thought I was rude, not my intention.

I had a clear question, and probably expected somebody could give me a response that was on topic, it's a little like being given Tea when you order Coffee!

Question needs to include Max Hold speeds, as it is complete explanation of holds that is required, from A to Z!

corporate-pilot
15th Mar 2012, 21:58
Perhaps you could ask the interviewer where to find the speeds. Tell them you have the ICAO speeds and know the holding speeds for the aircraft you're current on but not the ones they are asking for.

Nowt wrong with not knowing an answer so long as you admit to it and have shown your workings.

mad_jock
15th Mar 2012, 23:16
In regards to Holding Speeds, what are the exact speeds within JAA?


An you didn't really ask what the max speed is.

truckflyer
26th Mar 2012, 01:25
Anyway, wanted to say thanks to all who helped.