R.A.F. Leuchars news

[Finningley Boy]

The Courier - 'People should be worried' (http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Fife/article/21601/people-should-be-worried-source-tells-courier-complete-closure-of-raf-leuchars-is-a-real-possibility.html)

I've just been reading briefly through the attached article. What I can't understand is if the Army don't want to move in, for all financial and practical reasons and the R.A.F. don't want to move out for the same, just what is the political strategy afoot?:confused:

FB:)

[Courtney Mil]

Perhaps they don't want to be stuck the wrong side of the border after independence?

[phantomstreaker]

Has anyone thought of the cost of refurishing Lossie to Typhoon standard against the flying hours to transit from Leuchars into the QRA area?

or is it just politics again:ugh::ugh:

[althenick]

It occurs to me that Lossie will be a very busy base in the near future. Add to The Typhoons for QRA, the FGR Typhoons and eventually JSF then is the infrastructure there to handle all of this?

[pr00ne]

What "announcement last week that extra Typhoons are coming to Leuchars"?

[Finningley Boy]

Perhaps they don't want to be stuck the wrong side of the border after independence?


Having said that, the article does say that the Army want to concentrate on building new Barracks at Kirk Newton!?!?!?:confused:

FB:)

[TEEEJ]

Next Squadron for Leuchars.

View topic - 1 Sqn standing up (http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41225)

[Easy Street]

The army themselves do not want to move to Leuchars because, for one thing, they would need 25-30 single barrack blocks which currently do not exist and will cost more money than anyone has to hand.No money, apparently... but then...

''The army equally is absolutely set on a new army barracks at Kirknewton. The money to pay for that, in any case, would need to come from the sale of Craigiehall, which was the 2nd Division Army HQ, and the sale of Dreghorn and Redford barracks.So, there could be some money after all! This article is extraordinarily poorly researched / written - major infrastructure development is underway at Lossie (new Sgts' Mess, anyone?) under its guise as the future F35 base*, and despite the strong likelihood of GR4 drawdown to Marham in the next few years. It was hardly as if Leuchars is fully ready to be the second Typhoon MOB - its own infrastructure programme was suspended, was it not, before anything of significance had been started?

* Lossie was chosen as the future F35 base for, amongst other reasons, its remoteness and the noise level generated by the F35B. Therefore I find it somewhat ironic that Lossie is the only current fast jet base with a dedicated page in the approach charts detailing the noise abatement procedures in the visual circuit. However I believe F35 is merely a distraction here - I would bet the farm on F35 ending up at Marham to form a UK-US operating hub at Marham / Lakenheath. Therefore there would be plenty of room at Lossie for the Typhoon force.

[Courtney Mil]

FB, sshhh. That's a secret base for English Fifth Colunmnists to run a resistance movement.

Seriously, I don't think that's the issue. There are rumbling in the halls of the mighty to look again at stationing returning troops south of the border. Not sure that it's that serious, but I can see the politics that are at play here.

There is also a lot of posturing about where Typhoon will be based. They are all playing the long game here, so there won't be any answers soon. I am intruiged why this has suddenly appeared in a relatively minor news outlet. Quite handy.

[Edit: ES, we posted at the same time. Your analysis is absolutely right. I also think the picture goes even futher, beyond those three bases. But, as I say, it's long game, so no quick answers.]

[oldmansquipper]

Ah yes...1 squadron...would have been the second oldest fixed wing squadron in continuous service? ...if only ;)

Hereward!

[orca]

Reference JCA basing - I thought one of the big drivers for the Maritime Strike capability was to train in the role, which requires a over water transit to useable airspace.

Lossie wins hands down on this count.

[Finningley Boy]

That's a secret base for English Fifth Colunmnists to run a resistance movement.



Courtney, I can't believe that such things go on under our very noses!?!

But I imagine someone has to keep tabs on Big Eck should he get his way and be crowned the next King of Scotland.:ok: I wonder what sort of Tomfoolery will be got up to? Replacing Haggis filling with Chickpea and Rocket Leaf puree with just a hint of Coriander and other Healthy options!

That kind of thing could generate wide spread panic North of the Border!:E

FB:)

[NutLoose]

Courtney Mil
*
Perhaps they don't want to be stuck the wrong side of the border after independence?


Surely we could just declare it as a diplomatic mission and as such it would remain English :O

[BEagle]

What is this nonsense expression 'standing up'? Is it some Spam import to rank alongside that ridiculous term 'warfighter'....:yuk:

Surely the news item should read "No. 1(F) Squadron to reform"?

[sitigeltfel]

That's a secret base for English Fifth Colunmnists to run a resistance movement.

Nah...that is St Andrews University :}

[HTB]

I'm with you on this Beags.

If 1 (Balloon) Sqn do reform, will that make them the "go to" outfit as the "stand out" player?

Hereward - I met the dear old chap at a sqn anniversary in 1992 after II(AC) had ben repatriated to Marham.

Mister B

[Easy Street]

Reference JCA basing - I thought one of the big drivers for the Maritime Strike capability was to train in the role, which requires a over water transit to useable airspace.

The vast majority of Marham's simulated attack missions are conducted in Northern England, typically after an over-water transit up the east coast, descending abeam Newcastle and coasting in near Boulmer. With that said, I don't think it is strictly necessary to have an over-water transit to accurately simulate the maritime strike mission. F35 will not be a predominantly low-level beast in any case, and the coast (with its associated tactical implications) can easily be represented by an arbitrary line drawn on a map, if tooling around at medium or high altitude. A landlocked airfield can easily simulate "mother" in blue water, with a suitable scenario drawn up - how do you think the USMC train from Yuma, or the USN from Fallon? Hint - the associated range complexes are all inland of those airfields!

When real ogsplosh is required, the North Sea is a mere 5 minutes flying time north of Marham and is occupied by the vast D323 / D513 complex, offering opportunities for affiliation training with aircraft from Coningsby & Lakenheath, not to mention Dutch/Belgian visitors. Another definite advantage from a naval viewpoint is that Marham is a also only a 20 to 25-minute transit away from the operational sea training areas in the English Channel.

[Roadster280]

What is this nonsense expression 'standing up'? Is it some Spam import to rank alongside that ridiculous term 'warfighter'....

Surely the news item should read "No. 1(F) Squadron to reform"?

You can't have it both ways. Is the Weber ****e because it's American too?

Yes, I realise it's a bite, but it does get a little tedious old chap.

[MG]

Surely 'stand up' is an army phrase that those interested in further their careers with B&llsh1t Bingo words have adopted; a bit like using 'piece' as a superfluous, additional word or filler. Either way, I agree, it's a dreadful phrase that ranks alongside 'an RAF airbase'.

[Wensleydale]

Is it some Spam import


This is unlikely, as American imports require a three word acronym where just one would do in normal English. As examples, US manuals quote "Constant Sightline Picture" and "Elevation Angle Control" when "aspect" and "tilt" would do just as nicely. There are some non-standard two word phrases in use by the Americans, but purists will be very happy to note that the AWACS "Situation Display" is replaced in the later Block 40-45 update by the more standard "Primary AWACS Display". (Brits know this as a screen). The AWACS also has a Data Programming Group (Computer ) Data Display Group (Consoles) and a host of other easy to remember systems. There are rumours that our colonial chums will soom run out of 3 word acronyms and will expand to four words in the near future.:ok:

[Roadster280]

Wensleydale, the E-3 was designed in the 1960s-1970s timeframe. At that time, computers weren't in common use. Those that were, often used teleprinters for input and output. There was no common notion of a computer "screen". The RAF of course didn't join the E-3 party until it had squandered billions on some Nimrods that never entered service, and by that time, the computer had become commonplace.

The contemporaneous British Ptarmigan communications system used similarly descriptive terms for its components. As an example, the device to which the phones ("subsets") were connected had the wonderful term "Local Distribution Access Multiplexer". "Exchange" would have done nicely. The Single Channel Radio Access (Terminal) or (Central) could have been called "Mobile Phone" or "Base Station". Albeit the mobile phone's transmitter weighed 70KG, and required another 70KG of batteries, mounted in an FFR. Oh, and a "Control Indicator Group" with the actual phone buttons for another 20KG.

Glass Houses. Stones.

[Wensleydale]

British Ptarmigan communications system used similarly descriptive terms for its components


We obviously tried to sell it over the pond.....:}

[500N]

Re "'standing up'", I thought the term was "raised" however
that might be a "green" term, as in "unit raised".

[glad rag]

"Next Squadron for Leuchars."

How about some AD continuity and having the bases recent sister Sqdn's reform !!
:*:*:*:*:*

[Moi/]

Is Leuchars Moving to Lossie?

If so, when?

[NutherA2]

Is Leuchars Moving to Lossie?
If so, when? Local rumour control still says:

Yes

2015 ( I hope that's the year and not Zulu or BST)

[hval]

NutherA2,

What! You haven't moved yet? Haven't you noticed that the MQ's either side of you have been empty since yesterday evening 20:15 hrs. Did you nori notice how quiet it was at happy hour this evening, in the mess?

Better sneak out early tomorrow morning. By the way, no one is left in the MT section so no vehicles to help you move.

[Tashengurt]

Is Leuchars Moving to Lossie?

I don't think so. I think they just plan to hand Leuchars over to the army and move the RAF elements to Lossie.

[Climebear]

I understand that the Army may not want it anymore.

The new Army 2020 structure is somewhat different to the one envisaged in SDSR/Future Basing study. With all 3 armoured brigades to be based around SPTA there may well not be a requirement for a 'formation HQ' and major units to be based close to the Old Course.

IIRC Nos 1(F) and 6 Squadrons are still due to move north. Not sure what the future holds for the HQ 6 FP Wg or 58 Squadron RAF Regiment. However, with reductions in the number of RAF Regiment squadrons already announced, being located on a station that is closing may not be a good sign.

[Moi/]

It would be nice if they would make there minds up about it, and just publish it.

With the move to Lossie coming up, this writes off any chance of a posting to Leuchars..

Leuchars - Yes
Lossie - No..

[Finningley Boy]

Does anyone know if there is any truth in what some magazines have advanced, i.e. the the Tranche 1 Typhoons are now to be retained and a total of six or even seven squadrons forming rather than the SDSR total of five?

FB:)