Buried Spitfires ?

[SpringHeeledJack]

I was reading an article today about buried ex-Luftwaffe WW2 in the US, basically that after evaluation/reverse engineering they were clumsily dumped, but are now being restored.

In the comments section there was a chap who mentioned that whilst stationed at the Empire Test Pilots School in Rhodesia, he either saw or knew of spitfires that were buried in crates within the airfield's perimeter. Would the panel think this credible and if so might they be in recoverable condition ?



SHJ

[Fareastdriver]

Empire Test Pilots School in Rhodesia

That's a new one. I think the establishment of a Central Flying School for the education of instructors was as far as they went. The ultimate in performance would have been the Harvard.

The only Spitfires in Rhodesia were 22 second-hand Spitifire 22s operated by the Southern Rhodesian Air Force until they received Vampires. I doubt if any of them are missing.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Empire Test Pilots School

Empire Flying Training School that should have been :O I looked up the article comments and apparently this might have been on an Rhodesian Army base that had been an airfield during WW2 and the Spitfires might therefore have been RAF. At the end of WW2 these aircraft were buried in the ground.


SHJ

[teeteringhead]

Bit of an "urban myth" I think - I've heard of (alleged) buried Spitfires at a variety of Stations - Ternhill, Saints and Aldergrove to name only three.

Once used as excuse for an extremely unfriendly compass-swinging base - "ah - that's because of the buried Spits!"

[cyflyer]

We hear these myths of buried aircraft every now and again, but personnaly I think they are just that, MYTHS. Has anyone, anywhere ever found buried whole aircraft, crated or otherwise ???
And besides, why would they bury aircraft ? They would be scrapped for the metal, or reduced to spares, or sold to third world countries. Not logical.

[twochai]

Has anyone, anywhere ever found buried whole aircraft, crated or otherwise ???


Yes: In their search for Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq, the American forces found Mig 25's completely buried in the desert sand.

Why bury aircraft?? It's beyond me, I can't imagine resurrecting a Mig 25 after a year or so incarcerated under the sand - surely the restoration cost and effort would be more than going to the Russians and asking them to lend you more money to buy new Migs? That is, of course, assuming you came out on the right side of the battle in the first place!

Why bury a Spitfire, even if you just want to dispose of it?

[SpringHeeledJack]

why would they bury aircraft ? They would be scrapped for the metal, or reduced to spares, or sold to third world countries. Not logical.

Exactly what I would have imagined, but there seemed to be many instances at the end of WW2 of aircraft and other man-made vehicles being dumped in the sea or land buried/destroyed allegedly to allow replacements to be justified when back on home territory. Perhaps a scam in collusion with the war machine ?


SHJ

[Mark22]

Yes. Buried Spitfires.

Spitfire Survivors - the definitive history of every survivor (http://www.spitfiresurvivors.co.uk)

PeterA

[ZeBedie]

My old man was on HMS Venerable at the end of the war. After VJ, they pushed Corsairs and Avengers over the side, along with new factory crated engines, in order to make room for the evacuation of Singapore. So don't underestimate the willingness to dump good kit at that time.

[Romulus]

My old man was on HMS Venerable at the end of the war. After VJ, they pushed Corsairs and Avengers over the side, along with new factory crated engines, in order to make room for the evacuation of Singapore. So don't underestimate the willingness to dump good kit at that time.

Part of the rules of the Lend Lease program was all kit had to be disposed of or returned at the completion of hosilities.

[Tankertrashnav]

Rumours went around in the 1950s that complete crated Merlin engines had been dumped down disused tin-mine shafts in Cornwall. Like the buried Spitfires I am sure this was urban myth (why not sell them for scrap at least?), but as the shafts have all been capped long since I doubt if we'll ever know.

[Fareastdriver]

Rhodesian Army base that had been an airfield

That narrows it down to two places; Kumalo and Heany. Kumalo was a headquarters unit with a couple of comms aircraft; later to become the Territorial Army HQ. RAF Heany became Llewellan Barracks, again a TA training unit.
I was at Heany as a service brat in 1950-53 and at Kumalo and Llewellan as a Terrier in 1958-59. Did not hear anything about Spitfires being tucked away.

[Mark22]

Buried Spitfires that have been recovered include - TB885 and PK665 in the UK, LV750, MT682 and MD338 in Australia and MV459 in India.

I would not rule out further buried Spitfire recoveries in Asia in the coming years. :)

PeterA

[Fareastdriver]

You can forget Africa. Any aircraft buried in crates would have the first termites at the wood whilst they were still filling it in. In three months the crate would have disappeared leaving you with an aluminium pancake.

[240 Gardner]

"My old man was on HMS Venerable at the end of the war. After VJ, they pushed Corsairs and Avengers over the side, along with new factory crated engines, in order to make room for the evacuation of Singapore. So don't underestimate the willingness to dump good kit at that time. "

My father's (serviceable) Mk.III Sunderland was one of several scuttled at Bathurst after VE Day, rather than flown home.

[RedhillPhil]

I heard tales from an ex army colleague of brand new Bedfords and Landies being dumped in the sea off steamer point during the Aden withdrawal.

[IslandPilot]

Back in the 1960's I heard stories of Sunderlands being scuttled on Lough Erne after the war, and that large quantities of tools and equipment had been dumped in the Lough, also that radio equipment had been bulldozed into pits on the nearby bases. The source was a family that had lived near the Lough on the perimeter of St Angelo for many years.

[cyflyer]

Lough Erne is a lake in Northern Ireland. So they prefered to dump entire Sunderlands at the bottom of a lake, so close to home, rather than scrap them for the metal ?????? And there is a LOT of metal in an entire Sunderland. I find that incredible, and today it would be considered a criminal waste.

@ Mark22, Peter, I just realised who you are. I think you know who I am also. I hope you are keeping well. The project contines, thanks for your past help.

AndrewP

[SpringHeeledJack]

Back in the 1960's I heard stories of Sunderlands being scuttled on Lough Erne after the war, and that large quantities of tools and equipment had been dumped in the Lough, also that radio equipment had been bulldozed into pits on the nearby bases

As I understand it, it was the military equivalent of fudging the yearly budget at years end so as to justify a larger budget the following year, though in these cases more than likely at the behest of vested interests and the silly taxpayers footing the bill :hmm:



SHJ

[IslandPilot]

That's an interesting explanation - I am pretty sure that the source of the info on Lough Erne was reliable. The other point is that the government did not want to flood the civilian market with large quantities of good tools and non-classified radio equipment at knock down prices.