Anybody tell me about the Kitfox type a/c.

[magpienja]

Hi all...this is a question a friend asked me to ask for him,

I fly flexwings with little knowledge of fixed wing a/c so cant answer for him,

He is new to aviation having just started an NPPL M course,

He quite likes the Kitfox range of a/c especially the later Mk7 version...whatever type he goes for it has to be a tail-dragger and have an easy wing fold,

I seem to remember reading that the Kitfox can be a real handful in the landing phase but latter variants being easier, can anybody tell me any the pitfalls of the Kitfox range,

If he decides to get a Kitfox he would like to build his own...with its engine he is probably looking at the best part of £30k...I cant help thinking that if he where to sell it he would never get back what he invested in the a/c not counting his own time....

Nick.

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

Hi Nick,

I'm sure Monocock will be along in a moment. If not you will find him on the other side (aka Flyer Forum). He's presently flying a Kitfox and is quite enthusiastic about it. I suspect he'll be able to answer any questions you have.

Safe Flying,
Richard W.

[gasax]

The later Kitfoxes are very thin on the ground in the UK.

From memory there are only 3, a MkV and 2 Mk VIIs. I;ve looked at the building costs and realistically they are about £40k if you use new components and a sensible fit.

Would you get your money back? No - but you would get most of it bearing in mind the scarcity of the model and its general attractiveness, so secondhand but still in good condition? Maybe £35k if someone really wanted it.

But realistically the secondhand price is usually somewhat irrelevent if someone really really wants to build.

There are a few MkIVs around - although few with the full 1200lbs payload - they rarely change hands which probably tells you something.

The earlier ones - my opinion fwiw is don't even think about them. A friend built a Mk II and describes it as the nastiest aircraft he had ever flown.......

[Oldpilot55]

I haven't flown a 7 but I have flown and 4 and had a share of a 3 for a few years. They are nice competent aircraft and only acquired the dodgy reputation because folk were flying them without proper conversions. They are no more tricky to land than a Cub. 4s rarely come on the market and there are not many 7s in the country.
Kitfoxes use flaperons but we never used the flaps since in certain circumstances you can run out of roll authority. They are draggy aircraft so the absence of flaps was never an issue.
If your mate is desperate to fly one then G-INFO will lead him in the correct direction.

[Monocock]

Hi there

As WKW says, I am a Kitfox advocate and maybe the following will help:

The various models of Kitfox (1-7) have HUGE differences in handling, usable weight, MAUW and speeds. They are frustratingly sometimes cast off verbally as "twitchy" or "a handful" and it is only people who don't know them who cast these assumptions. Some people bought them in the 1980/90's with no tail wheel training and bent a lot of them. Also, they were using the flapperons as "flaps" on finals and whilst some of the earlier models did lose flapperon efficacy in this configuration, why oh why they used the flaps I don't know as they all stall "clean" at 30 mph!!! At 35 mph the flapperons are crisp and give excellent lateral control right into the flare too.

Model 1 - hardly many int he UK and usually powered by a small 50 hp 2 stroke Rotax. Pretty jittery in the air (I have been told as I havent flown one) and great for short hops with a ground speed of circa 70 mph. Worth avoiding.

Model 2 - Quite a few improvements, including changes to the vertical fin etc to improve handling. Plenty of these in the UK and most in the microlight class. Most powered by the Rotax 582 and one with a 912. Expect to pay £10k - £12k for one in good condition. Given the choice, I would aim for a higher model...

Model 3 - A considerable improvement again with better handling and a higher usable weight. Cruise at around 85 ish and most of these also have the 582 engine, but with a growing number having the 912 retro-fitted for better reliability and more horsepower. I believe the cruise with these is around 85-90 mph but bear in mind that when you start putting 912's in these a/c the prop set-up makes a huge difference to climb/cruise performance. The Mk 3 with a 912 is a really lovely performer with unbeatable take-off performance but perhaps a bit too draggy in the under-cambered wing to make the most airspeed from the engine.

Model 4 - Either 1050 lbs or 1200 lbs AUW and a very very nice aircraft. Cruise at 100 mph and most of these now have 912's in them. They are great all round machines and the one I had was a blast for two years, taking me all over the place. They have a flat bottomed wing and give much better cruise speeds without a compromise on take off performance. With the prop set for cruise you can see 110 mph in one of these. There are a couple of Speedsters (clipped wing Mk 4's and these are stonking machines but don't expect to find one for sale!). In fact, don't expect to find a Mk 4 for sale for a while. Those who have them tend to hold on to them as they are simply stunning aircraft for handling and performance. If they do sell, expect to pay £23 -£25k for a good one.

Model 5 - There is only one in the UK (mine:O) and after a few years of having a Rotec radial on the front it now has a 100 hp 912S. I'm not going to say much more than it is simply the most phenominal performer!! If I want to go at 120 mph I can (but I don't very often) and I can climb out solo at 1700 fpm. 7 hours endurance and 700 lbs usable weight...!!!! It won't be for sale for a very very very long time as there just isn't anything out there to compare with it. It is physically very different to the Mk 1-4 range with a much larger tail, trimmable horizontal stabiliser, smooth cowl and a cabin that is wider than a C172. In flight, it is totally different to the Mk 4 and feels like flying a solid and stable machine with hardly any noticable bumping around even in turbulence or on gusty days. Don't forget, at this stage we have an empty weight that is getting on be nearly the same as the max AUW of the very first mode, hence my comment about the massive difference across the range). Once again, the value (I won't say what I paid for it) goes up another notch.

Model 6 - None in the UK. It is the version of the Mk 5 that has the option of switching to nosewheel. Not that many were made.

Model 7 - One currently flying in the UK and 2 being built that I know of. Physically identical to the Mk 5 but with a different engine mounting arrangement. Some say they are slightly heavier than the Mk 5, thereby eating into the take off performance but they'll still do 1500 fpm without a sweat. A very solid a/c to fly.

Super Sport - the latest and sexiest Kitfox available. I've never seen one and there aren't any in the UK. Suffice to say, they are a phenominal machine from what I have been told. The 100 hp 912S or the 115hp 914 Turbo are the engine choices and given the chance to have a go I would love to.

If your friend wants to build, he should expect to put 1500 hours of time into it (at least). The Mk 4 and the 7/SuperSport are the models that can currently be bought. Yes, by the time you finish a SS you will have spent £50k probably but resale values of the top end Kitfoxes are far and away higher than the Mk 1-3 range. If a 7 came up for sale now I would expect it to sell for £40k very easily. I know I would pay that for one anyway compared to what else is out there selling for that kind of figure.

If he's really serious about building a Mk 7, I would be happy for him to have a look round my Mk 5 and go for a fly. If he wants a Mk3 or 4, he'd be better to find that particular model to have a go in as mine won't be anything like those as a comparison.

[ShyTorque]

Mono, your Mk5 sounds like a great little aircraft - can you post a photo? :D

Aha, found one, thanks.

[Ultra long hauler]

Mono, your Mk5 sounds like a great little aircraft - can you post a photo? :D


Yes please!


###Ultra Long Hauler###

[Monocock]

Yes please!


###Ultra Long Hauler###

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/JonoHolland/145206dc.jpg

[Monocock]

magpienja

Are you based at Arclid? I was supposed to fly in for an overnighter (40th bash in Sandbach) a few weeks ago but the weather forecast for the return trip looked shaky so I drove. I'm glad I did as it was murky and horrible when I drove home.

[magpienja]

Thanks so much guys really useful information,

Monocock wow that's a fantastic run down on the range...I have passed all your info and advice to my friend and he sends his sincere thanks...he is calling tomorrow and he can read it himself and have a look at the photo of your Kitfox...what a very handsome aeroplane you have there,

I think I have seen a picture somewhere of your Kitfox with its Rotec Radial...what a fine looking engine I bet it sounded beautiful,

Anyway I passed on your very nice offer of a flight in your a/c and he is very much up for that...I will PM for some details,

No I dont fly from Arclid been in there a few times...its not that far from me...I'm based at Ince...bit further north.

Nick.