EK EY QR automation policy

[Check Airman]

Question for pilots operating in the Middle East.

What is your company policy on use of AP / FD / AT?

Any restrictions on manual flying?

If you fly for a restrictive company, how do pilots view the policy, and how do you maintain proficiency?

[Bypass ratio]

I think you'll find proficiency in modern jet aircraft has change and is not a measure of manual handling skills but rather your management of the automation. At EK we are supposed to have a manual handling simulator twice a year but I for one haven't done one in the entire time I've been here. Autopilot on at 200' and disconnect around 500AGL on approach. You can manually fly it on departure to 10000' but what's the point? AT & FD are always on.

[Check Airman]

Thanks Bypass. Up to 10,000 on departure, and what's the earliest you can disconnect on arrival.

[Wizofoz]

BR and SS,

The current OM-A automation policy was a change from the previous "Max appropriate use" policy, specifically to allow manual flight where workload makes it appropriate.

There is still a strong "hangover' culture that the company "Wants" max use of Automation- but if that was the case, they wouldn't have made the change.

Low traffic and reasonable weather (another common hangover seems to be "Use the AP till you can see the runway"- for chrisake, we HAVE Intrument ratings, there is NO problem hand flying in IMC, and indeed it is reccomended to fly at least the last 800' if you are doing a manual landing- even if the weather is at CatI minima), there is nothing to stop you having a pole.

I always do, encourage others to do likewise, and am reflecting the view of the Training Department that we should be hand-flying more.

[Jetjock330]

Autopilot can be taken out below 10000ft on departure and on approach

Do you guys all fly your RNAV 1 GNSS approaches/SIDS/STARS by hand????

I wouldn't think that would be ideal and if there is a track bust, or level bust....

[Wizofoz]

Do you guys all fly your RNAV 1 GNSS approaches/SIDS/STARS by hand????

I wouldn't think that would be ideal and if there is a track bust, or level bust....

Err.."Can" doesn't mean "Must" or "Should".

But getting vectored or following a normal STAR with RNP 5, why not? If you can't follow a flight director, you probably shouldn't be here!

[stealthpilot]

I always do, encourage others to do likewise, and am reflecting the view of the Training Department that we should be hand-flying more. Thanks for the clarification Wiz, good to hear the training department thinks it's a good idea to hand fly her once in a while when the weather is good and there's not much traffic.
Would you be able to share what the specific policy is?
And by 'hand-flying' what's left on, turned off? AT/FD/both?

[Jetaim]

New EK policy.. f/d off a/t off PFD/ND completely dimmed and fly the approach on stby instruments...but only on charters to Tel Aviv..

[ruserious]

You can manually fly it on departure to 10000' but what's the point? AT & FD are always on.

Because someday you might actually need the motor skills associated with hand flying. The regulators (ICAO, FAA, JAA) and the manufacturers are extremely concerned about over use or inappropriate use of automation and the degradation of handling skills

[Gillegan]

You can manually fly it on departure to 10000' but what's the point? AT & FD are always on.

Even if you are just flying a heading for 5 minutes, you are exercising your scan and it's the degradation of the scan more than anything else that causes a loss of manual handling skills.

[Check Airman]

Jetjok,

We fly manual RNAV1 procedures all the time. I did one last night as a matter of fact. Granted, most people will leave the FD on, but I've seen some folks go raw data in IMC. Not a big deal really, as long as the PNF doesn't become task saturated.

So it seems to be that EK only allows hand flying below 10,000, and only with the AT/FD on. Anybody else care to add their own airline's policy?

[RemoveB4Flght]

"Task saturated" or "higher workload" is the belly aching I hear from the guy in the other seat who thinks he is too underpaid/overworked to deal with the pressure of simultaneously talking on the radio and turning a heading/altitude knob for me.

Recently I was flying with a guy who when the auto thrust kicked off and would not reengage in cruise, wanted to hold and start a dialogue with maintenance about a fix. We were only a few miles from top of descent at our own hub, and he didn't feel comfortable taking it down by hand. We did some resets to no avail and he looked at me and asked what I thought we should do. I guess the years in an RJ paid off because at least one of us has flown a jet from cruise by magically moving those two sticks in the middle to keep the fans blowing.

Automation is great, especially on the far back side of the clock with two tired brains.. but we are in a time when, outside of the hundred or so hours in a single engine trainer, captains have spent a career flying with so much automation they are afraid to fly a plane. We also have airlines that challenge a pilot's decision to do exactly what it is we are paid to do..... fly a plane.

[Check Airman]

Recently I was flying with a guy who when the auto thrust kicked off and would not reengage in cruise, wanted to hold and start a dialogue with maintenance about a fix. We were only a few miles from top of descent at our own hub, and he didn't feel comfortable taking it down by hand. We did some resets to no avail and he looked at me and asked what I thought we should do. I guess the years in an RJ paid off because at least one of us has flown a jet from cruise by magically moving those two sticks in the middle to keep the fans blowing.

Funny story. What did your FO propose as the solution to the problem? Declare an emergency?

Just to be clear, I don't use the term "task saturated" as an excuse for lazy, but on the last flight of a long duty day, I'm more likely to use the AP to the fullest extent.