EICAS: FWD ENTRY DOOR

[blueloo]

Curious as to what action one would take with an EICAS FWD ENTRY DOOR MSG (Say on 767 with plug doors) on takeoff and subsequent actions.

(I haven't mentioned a speed i.e. above/ below 80kts)

Boeings QRH - would indicate you could abort if you desired <80 kts- i.e. reject for system failure - but being a plug type door - is there a need for an RTO?

So our company instructs that an RTO is for this is undesired - at any speed - certainly I can't see the need for a high speed RTO - but a low speed RTO - why not go get it looked at.

Once airborne - after the msg occurs during takeoff - QRH talks about pressurisation being normal vs not normal.

Only if not normal do you continue with remaining below 10000 / 14000 etc .

So if its normal - as in aircraft is pressurising and differential is increasing would you continue (after takeoff - not in cruise) - do you wait to see if something gives way at max diff for example... (albeit fairly unlikely being a plug type door) - or do you return - maybe dump 30 tonnes of fuel and land...

Have read quite a few reports for high speed RTOs due to this msg occurring on takeoff....


Thoughts?

[bucket_and_spade]

Gut instinct says to me continue, run the QRH at the appropriate time and chat to the forward galley. If all appears normal (including pressurisation) continue (as per the QRH) and have it looked at on landing?

[blueloo]

Seems reasonable.... my only concern is that initial pressurisation phase, and whether that is what has caused the door message.

[HAWK21M]

If there is no pressurisation loss,its probably an Indication error.The sensor on the door may be out of rig.

[gorter]

As to the rto case. In my company it's commander's decision but below 80 stop for any problem. Above 80 we would definitely continue for this message. We'd only stop for fire, engine failure, blocked runway, predicted windshear, config warning or control failure.

[bucket_and_spade]

Hi Gorter,

Agreed, it's cmdr's decision at my out fit too (I'm a lowly FO) but the book says stop for any 'significant' malfunction below 80 on my type. My gut instinct would be to stick with my original plan above but it's always good to debate so would be happy to hear different views!

The RTO/GO decision features as a topic in our upcoming sim (it was last time too) so the industry/company are obviously interested in the topic.

Best rgds,

B&S

[Joetom]

Yes, a good question for interest.

From my understanding.

The door sensors should be well rigged to cover a range of conditions.

ie, door shut and locked etc etc, sensor/sensors should have a little allowance to move a bit and information should remain the same to the system that can make msg's/lights etc etc.

Just of interest, it is common that when the power lever/levers are moved to a T/O type position, the press sys like to px the aircraft a little(.25psi maybe) and this will tend to stop/reduce any px bumps at T/O, initial climb.

So, I is guessing if a sensor/switch is out of a mid range setting when the above is going on, it could be moved a little as the (.25psi) and or airframe vibs increase to make a msg ???

I guess the SOP cover it well.

....

ps, got me thinkink now, I will have to research the TK 10 in 74 and UA 74 in 89(i think) Cheers all....

[blueloo]

Out of curiosity where is the door sensor (767) ? Bottom of door/side or dual sensors? And what type of sensor is it? (Switch vs magnetic etc)

[ampclamp]

From memory I think the sensor that brings on this msg is above top centre and is a prox sensor. Round type. Never seen a fwd door msg that was not a stuffed or out of rig sensor / target. Usually broken sensor.

[TURIN]

Not sure about the 767 but 777/787 doors are fitted with a flight lock that engages above 80kts. This is to prevent a mad pax scenario where there is insufficient diff pressure to keep the door closed. Perhaps SOPS are now standardised across all Boeings to reflect this.

[blueloo]

thanks ampclamp.

The 767's don't have a flight lock on doors - unless some of the more recent ones do....

[80-87]

Read the QRH Non-Normal Maneuvers section for the Boeing. There is a list of rejects below 80 Knots and above 80 Knots (B777 at least).

For a door above 80 Knots with a door EICAS, keep going, the risk doesn't outweigh the reject and the rest of the problems...overheated brakes, etc.