How to establish whether someone actually has a licence...

[ACW599]

This might seem a strange question but is it possible to establish whether a UK national has the civilian licence and qualifications he claims to have?

A very old friend of mine suspects that one of his work colleagues might be, er, exaggerating his qualifications slightly, and there are some implications which are slightly alarming if he hasn't.

Any answers gratefully received.

[The Heff]

The easiest way is to ask him to produce said licence and qualifications. Don't be embarrassed about offending him; if its your head on the block then all you're doing is just covering your derriere.

[Fuji Abound]

Yes, I agree with the Groups I have run we have always asked for members licence / rating(s) to be on record. Some get nervous about medicals or anything with an expiry date on the basis they feel it passes the onus to the Group to ensure the pilot doesnt fly after expiry - it doesnt, but if for no other reason it is worth making it abundantly clear (at least within Groups) that it is up to the individual member to ensure all their paperwork is in order. If you are in anyway responsible for the aircraft it would seem nuts to allow a pilot to assume command without having seen his paperwork.

[peterh337]

If a syndicate member's (or a renter's) medical (e.g.) lapses and he prangs the plane, will the owner/operator get the insurance payout?

I don't know the answer, but I don't think they would pay out because the flight was obviously illegal to start with. So the owner must check the pilots' papers. The buck stops with the person making the claim, and merely asking the renter/member to e.g. sign a piece of paper confirming valid papers will be of no interest at all to the insurer.

When I used to rent out my TB20, I only ever had a very small number of renters but they included two instructors. One turned out to have lied about his valid IR and the other lied about having an ATPL (he had a BCPL). I don't think either of them ever did a flight where this was actually an issue, fortunately. This was one of the reasons I stopped doing it in the end.

[Whirlygig]

I once had cause to believe that a PPL(H) was flying as a CPL(H). I telephoned PLD at the CAA and asked if they were able to tell me whether someone held a CPL or PPL. The reply I got back was that I needed to have good cause for knowing (they were happy with my reason), I needed the person's full name, address and date of birth. After that, they could only answer "yes" or "no".

"Does So-and-so hold a PPL(H)?"
"Yes."
"Does So-and-so hold a CPL(H)?"
"No."
"Thank you, Sir."
"Thank YOU, Madam."

However, they may be reluctant to divulge the information if the only reason you want to know is because someone is bragging.

Cheers

Whirls

[n5296s]

he had a BCPL
Isn't that a programming language?

[Talkdownman]

BCPL... Basic Combined Programming Language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCPL) .......'no longer in common use'......a bit like the Basic Commercial Pilot's Licence...

[172driver]

If this (as the OP somewhat implies) involves commercial flying, then you should confront the person forthwith - the implications are simply too dire.

I really see no big deal in showing my license and medical, every outfit I have ever rented from wanted to see it and kept it on file. In fact I'd be rather worried if they didn't!

Never understood this pussyfooting about by the CAA - in FAAland you simply go online and check.

[mad_jock]

Don't get involved,

Have a look at the page

CAA Whistleblowing Policy | Operations & Airworthiness | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=872&pagetype=90&pageid=9487)

Then send the form or ring them.

They do come out with data protection rubbish if you phone them up sometimes.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Isn't that a programming language?
The best of its age ... much more fun than FORTRAN, and nobody wants to type out BEGIN and END in full do they.

And I didn't know until decades later that Martin played the horn!

[peterh337]

Fortran was fun. When I was doing Pascal programming at univ I used to write the programs in Fortran, debug them, and then translate them into Pascal. Used to drive the teachers crazy :) :) Can't beat assembler. Nowhere for the bugs to hide :)

[iwrbf]

OT: Pascal vs. Fortran

Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal (http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

When I was doing Pascal programming at univ I used to write the programs in Fortran, debug them, and then translate them into Pascal. Used to drive the teachers crazy
Gosh! - I knew we used to say, on discovering really crap code, "hey, look, you can write FORTRAN in any language", but you're the first person I've come across who has openly admitted doing so!

[Genghis the Engineer]

Start an argument about some aspect of licencing, and ask him to show you his to settle it.

If the questioner is a non-pilot, something like 'does it have a photo in it?' along with 'does the pilot's address appear' will do it - giving am excuse to look through it carefully.

G

[david viewing]

I'd have thought a harmless conversation about the impenetrable minutiae of getting a UK 2yr renewal would be enough to flush out of him how he did his, and who with.

[The Heff]

I don't think you'll even need to go through the CAA with this one. I've just glanced at the OPs public profile and he flies Vigilent T1 motor-gliders, so its a fair assumption that he's either a Civilian Gliding Instructor or an RAFVR(T) officer at a Volunteer Gliding School for the Air Cadets.

If so, its easily possible to pass the buck, and speak to either the Chief Flying Instructor or the Commanding Officer, and let them investigate and take action. After all, its the CO's head on the block, and not the OPs. VGS units are administered by the MAA as opposed to the CAA, so certain civilian licences and ratings might not actually be required, which means that the implications might not be as alarming as they would perhaps appear.

[mad_jock]

I don't know there was one pillock out there in 2004 who had decided that he was good to go for signing off SEP revalidations etc after doing the one hour with an instructor who was VGS and he wasn't even a civi FI.

The CFI picked it up with a very odd license number on the ratings page I don't know what happened about it all, the student went up for a LST with the CFI that day though after a few phone calls.

[BolkowJunior]

Interestingly you do not need any sort of civilian licence to fly with the space cadets, so it is dangerous to assume that just because an individual flies grob 109s that they can fly a civilian registered aircraft!

[ShyTorque]

Interestingly you do not need any sort of civilian licence to fly with the space cadets, so it is dangerous to assume that just because an individual flies grob 109s that they can fly a civilian registered aircraft!

So what type of registration do the "Space Cadet" G109s have?

[ACW599]

>So what type of registration do the "Space Cadet" G109s have?<

Guys: before you all get carried away, I happen to be with a VGS. But as explained in the original post, I asked the question on behalf of a friend who's a PPL holder and has a query about someone else. My civilian licence and qualifications aren't relevant to this particular enquiry.

Many thanks for all the helpful replies, which have pointed to the best way to address the problem.

For the record, VGS Vigilants are on the military register.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Military.

And technically they are not G109b s (which have an MTOW of 850kg), they're Vigilant T1s - slightly different operating limits, seat parachutes, and an MTOW of 908kg.

The two in my logbook are ZH118 and ZH188.

G

[mad_jock]

I might add I don't have a problem at all with the sterling work done with cadets by the VGS. Any cadets that I have taught for PPL have been taught the basics to a high standard. And thats without being taught by someone with CPL knowledge :-D.

ACW I hope you didn't take my post as a critisim of your fine organisation or of the work you guys do.

And I hope you mate gets things sorted without a heap of hassle.

[ACW599]

>ACW I hope you didn't take my post as a critisim of your fine organisation or of the work you guys do.<

Not in the slightest. We do our best :)

>And I hope you mate gets things sorted without a heap of hassle.<

I suspect he's planning to go down the CAA whistleblowing route but we'll see what happens. Either that or following Genghis's suggestion of getting him into a heated discussion about some point of licensing protocol which can only be resolved by his production of the relevant document!

Many thanks again for the helpful replies.