Dusseldorf Airport - Many aircraft landing in difficult conditions

[wrxflame]

An apology if this has already been posted.

This video offers an intriguing perspective and demonstrates the challenges of landing in difficult cross wind conditions.

Watch for the lightning bolt at the 7:05 mark!

As a passenger it gave me a deeper appreciation of the skills required.

YouTube scary plane landings video goes viral with 1.7m views in a month | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2091055/YouTube-scary-plane-landings-video-goes-viral-1-7m-views-month.html)

[before landing check list]

I had to save that one to favorites. Thanks.

[Jambu Batu]

Someone told me after watching this video in the hotel crew lounge that any landing like that in the simulator is a sure fail in Alteon training centres...any truth to this?

[B737NG]

What about the trade winds at Auckland, Wellington or Honolulu? Challenging as well now and then, for some more, for some less. So the Girl´s and Boy´s doing what they getting paid for, flying a Bird.

[Airbubba]

What about the trade winds at Auckland, Wellington or Honolulu?

Or KIX or HKG when the wind is swirling over the long airfoil shaped terminal building?:eek:

[gerago]

Most of the landings in the video were highly unstabilised and yet the crew continued! Wow, looks like the myth about first world pilots being superior skygods with superior handling skills IS DEFINITELY BUSTED!

I would have thought those smart arse co-pilots would have taken over controls from their superior captains and gone around. Were they waiting for the PF to do cartwheels before hitting the TOGA buttons or slam the throttles to the Go Around detent?

[BlackandBrown]

On what basis are you saying that then? Do you know the stable criteria for each airline and aircraft? What parameters are unstable? They all look well handled to me.

[BOAC]

http://www.pprune.org/spectators-balcony-spotters-corner/474299-crosswind-landings-duesseldorf.html

[Kelly Hopper]

Gerago

I think you have a different idea of what constitutes unstablised to me.
They all appeared to be on the glideslope. If correctly configured and within the speed ballpark, that is stablised.
You seem to think a bumpy approach = unstablised approach????? :confused:

[BOAC]

I can only make a (forlorn) request NOT to respond to that post - it is a wind up (that's 'wind' not 'wind':)). See the 'qualifications' of Gerago and wait for this thread to be moved.

[Colonel Klink]

Gerago,

If this was a comment made to be taken seriously, then it was poor and shows your lack of knowledge. A Stabilised Approach has several criteria, none of whom are necessarily infringed just by landing in a strong crosswind! Also, many airlines have crosswind limits for the First Officers to land with and I doubt they would do themselves any favors by taking over!!!

[barit1]

Well excuse me.

Thinking about the crosswind component as a fraction of reference speed -
I've shot similar landings in my favorite taildragger, and lived to tell about it.

Interesting footage, good instructional material, but heroic? Gimme a break. :*

[BobnSpike]

Just another day at the office.

And Gerago:

"T'is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

[safetypee]

A good opportunity for learning; useful video.
From the general behavior of the aircraft, it does not appear that the conditions were too close to any crosswind limit. Thus the crew ability / currency remains as the dominating factor. From the approaches shown all decisions appear to be good calls, including the go-around. For those who have done it before, an opportunity to renew skills, for those who have not done it, then time to observe and learn.
Ignoring the wing waggling, tracking the aircraft cg indicates a consistent windshear on short finals; both vertical and lateral.
Perhaps the only point of concern is during one of the takeoffs there appears to be some overcontrolling: – use of NWS at high speed?

[Akali Dal]

Gerago...there you have it; massive loss of face for these fellas, therefore they try abusing you. Most of the aircrafts drift well off the centreline and things could easily have gone pear shape. And they claim that they were stabilised!!! Sigh...............where are those level headed first world aces when you need them to chatitise these bunch of pretenders?

[billabongbill]

My my my, gerago...what feathers have you ruffled!

Now, several of the landings were really not ones that I would have continued with. To those gerago bashers, I will certainly not want to fly with you! Your standards must be abysmal.:(

[gleneagles]

On what basis are you saying that then? Do you know the stable criteria for each airline and aircraft? What parameters are unstable? They all look well handled to me.
This really scares me! Well handled? Drifting well of the centerline and landing with quite a hefty amount of drift, and it is well handled? Come on.

What parameters are unstable? Gee, I have to agree with billabong. Your standards are pretty wanting!

[con-pilot]

It very evident of who here on this thread knows the first thing about flying, not many. All this video is, is a rather boring video of aircraft landing in a crosswind.

If any of you believe that any of these landings were unsafe, stay in bed for the rest of your life.

:rolleyes:

'Much to do about nothing me thinks'*

* With apologies to Billy Shakespeare.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

This really scares me! Well handled? Drifting well of the centerline and landing with quite a hefty amount of drift, and it is well handled? Come on.

Firstly, can you quantify "well of [sic]" please?

Secondly what's wrong with landing with drift? It is, depending on conditions, often the preferred method and can give a higher crosswind limit.

[Chuck Canuck]

Someone told me after watching this video in the hotel crew lounge that any landing like that in the simulator is a sure fail in Alteon training centres...any truth to this?

Well, if anyone on check with some Alteon checkers up in SEL were to pull off that kind of landings in a sim proficient check, it's back for a recheck!

I would give a passing grade with full comprehensive debriefings on proper x-wind drift removal close to touch-down but I definitely would NOT FAIL the checkee. I live in the real world and wind gusts upon touchdowns are indeed sometimes very tricky. However it is a real stretch to say that they are " well handled ". We gotta have better standards guys.

A couple of those landngs should have been aborted...I do not agree with the uncouth tone of gerago but some of the crew should have just gone around. The b757 which went around unfortunately did not fare very much better the second time around. He landed with quite a bit of crab and drift ( real hard on the landing gears and tire scrubbing ) but the centerline control was fine.

[cyflyer]

I'm not a pilot guys, but I would have to say kudos to the pilots for getting the planes down safely under difficult conditions :D

Being a lifelong photographer though, bear in mind that the compression of the super-duper ghetto blaster telephoto lens that is being used greatly exagerates the effect. There appears no forward motion, and shows just the side to side motion. Maybe from the flight deck its not so bad ?

[con-pilot]

He landed with quite a bit of crab and drift ( real hard on the landing gears and tire scrubbing ) but the centerline control was fine.

Aircraft are designed for exactly that for crosswind landings. For the last time, at least as far as I am concerned, all of those landings were safe and well within the design specifications that the aircraft were designed and built.

Not to mention, those landings were not, repeat not, "real hard on the landing gears". :rolleyes:

It is quite obvious that you are not a pilot or not an experienced pilot.

[Denti]

I wondered about that comment myself. I don't know about the 757 as i'm not rated on it, but on the 737 we are certified to land without removing any crab with up to 40kts crosswind. It is not recommended on dry runways (but very much recommended on wet runways), especially narrow ones, but it is possible and does not cause undue stress on the landing gear.

[SpaceNeedle]

Can the moderators move this thread to the techlog forum so that we can have more experts weighing in on these landings. They remained on the runway but the holes in the Swiss Cheese were lining up. Plus it was a pretty dry runway and with that kind of stress on the gears, I wouldn't like to be the one taking over the aircraft for the next leg.

[con-pilot]

It is not recommended on dry runways (but very much recommended on wet runways), especially narrow ones, but it is possible and does not cause undue stress on the landing gear.

On the 727 you could land with over a 20 degree heading difference from the runway heading on dry or wet runways in a crosswind. I'll have to dig out my old manuals for the exact difference. And trust me, there were many times I used all that was allowed.

Oh, and the landing gear never fell off. :p


(Neither did the front. ;))

[BobnSpike]

There are experts weighing in. There are also amateurs and flight simmers weighing in. It is easy to tell which is which.

[Groundloop]

Plus it was a pretty dry runway and with that kind of stress on the gears, I wouldn't like to be the one taking over the aircraft for the next leg.

Except that the gear has been designed, TESTED and CERTIFIED, to handle much higher loads than produced when landing at the maximum certified crosswind limit.

[Denti]

That it is not recommended on a dry runway doesn't have to do with stress on the landing gear. Just that one can get close to the upwind runway edge very fast if not corrected soon after touchdown. Mind you, that is of course a required advise for narrow runway operations (less than 30m width) which is the limiting factor on our landing performance.

On this video i saw no one approaches the upwind runway edge, rather the opposite.