a debate about a debate [Archive]

vanHorck

5th Jan 2012, 17:23

It is time to discuss this matter in the open

The Twin fire on the ground at North Weald involves a PPRUNE poster who is much respected by much (if not all) of the community.

Another much respected PPRUNE poster has asked (see biz jet thread David Green and FSD) not to comment or speculate as it would be too harsh for the relatives.

Yet we do discuss accidents here, extensively, because we aim to learn from them. We speculate without accusing, with a clear purpose, namely to learn from the analysis more than from the accident itself. Yet the accident itself is the immediate trigger which provides the trigger for the discussion.

By now we know who was the pilot, we think we know that the fire was a fire on the ground outside opening hours of the airfield, when he went back to the airplane to collect something.

If we fail to use that trigger, the discussion is less likely to happen or at least to be less intense. It all has to do with human nature.

Of course there are always those who object to this speculation and those who advocate it.

This time the question is should we refrain more from speculation in this case because he is a valued member of our community? That seems illogical and unfair.

If something happened to me in GA, people would be free to speculate on this forum from my point of view, and I would urge my relatives who cannot stomach this, to not visit this forum. It would be something good coming out of something bad in my view.

S-Works

5th Jan 2012, 17:34

Or maybe that despite the fact that Dave is a pilot and the fire occurred onboard on aircraft it actually is not really a flying accident?

Dave was collecting something from the aircraft, not flying, taxiing, ground running engines or in fact doing anything aviation related.

The accident could just as easily have happened in his car or garage. In fact I thought about it this morning when my garage stank of thinners because a container had leaked. I ventilated the garage very quickly.

What is the morbid curiosity with forum posters for wanting to know every intimate detail about every incident?

vanHorck

5th Jan 2012, 17:41

No morbid curiosity Bose-X

Planes don't light by themselves. Or should not.

Anyway it's not the question. The question is why treat this fire in a plane any different from a fire in a plane from some anonymous person?

If you get hurt in a plane can we speculate on it here?

S-Works

5th Jan 2012, 17:54

If you get hurt in a plane can we speculate on it here?

You may speculate to your hearts content. I grant full and free permission for you to do so the moment you hear anything and I don't request that any details are withheld. My wife already assumes I will meet my end flying and will be to busy claiming the life insurance.

However just because I don't care does not mean that I am prepared to disrespect others wishes.

As far as this incident is concerned as I understand it, it was a very unfortunate non flying related accident. So apart from a reminder to people to ensure they cap volatile substances there is nothing to speculate or discuss that will benefit our flying skills.

edit: spelling

PPRuNe Towers

5th Jan 2012, 18:00

Talk about it as much as you like VH

I'll offer this - I've been around my garage today and checked the labelling and cap/fastener security of everything that will produce flammable vapours. That's fuels, solvents, cleaners, thinners and paints in my case and it was a chastening experience to see how much there was for someone into aircraft and elderly vehicles

Rob

vanHorck

5th Jan 2012, 18:04

I am glad you reply as you do Bose-X

Again this is not about the accident itself. More of us, I believe, should express how we feel about PPRUNE in case something happens to us within GA.

The way aviation discusses mishaps and accidents is second nature to us, but not to the rest of the world.

I have found this openness one of the great values of being part of the flying community, as I found the methodological approach to flying (though extreme checklist routines) most useful in my non flying life.

Rob, I am not talking about the accident. I am talking about the talking about accidents. Respect for the family and friends of the victim.

goldeneaglepilot

5th Jan 2012, 18:13

I think that respect to the injured person should be given, especially as none of us yet know the potential outcome. Dave remains listed as critical.

If Dave had cut his finger then no problem, feel free to speculate, however his injuries are life threatening. Now is not the time to debate rumour or inaccurate reports.

I would hate for any matters debated in public here at this early stage to be refered to in other things such as an inquest. It has happened in the past when an inquest has been told the facts and then a statement has been read when the facts are not conclusive to say it was "widely discussed" and in the opinion of xyz this was a contributory factor.

I have no doubt that given the fullness of time a full report will be made of the circumstances. That report will be based on fact rather than speculation.

It should be noted that the AAIB in regards to this matter have decided that they have no interest or need to conduct an investigation. Just as they would if it was in your garage or shed.

Pilot DAR

5th Jan 2012, 18:17

The "debate" question itself is fair. There are too many differing circumstances and emotions for any one answer to be the better answer. In my opinion, no matter what, "the dust has to settle" before the chatter and speculation has a place. I wonder if the "dust has settled" on this event yet? I think perhaps not.

Once chatter and speculation approaches being appropriate, what is it's purpose? If people can learn, and prevent a reoccurance, it has merit, as long as it does not perpetuate the torment of the victims, which certainly includes the family and friends. Could torment be perpetuated in this situation? Could be.

Does the event have flying element? Believing:

Dave was collecting something from the aircraft, not flying, taxiing, ground running engines or in fact doing anything aviation related

Perhaps not.

I have no need to speculate, or drum up chatter in this case, other than to express genuine compassion to a member of our group, who's in a tough place in life.

In other cases which come to mind (aircraft landing in the Derwent river), I agree with VanHork. The debate should rage on! What makes the difference for me between this, and that? I'm not completely sure. A reasonable person, now suffering through bad burns, factors heavily on my mind, and gives me pause. A pilot with an apparent history of flying beyond the edge, splashing an assumed serviceable land plane, gives me something to openly speculate and chatter about!

The debates should rage on, though I hope that simple compassion causes them to sidestep certain events, and JetBlu's would be one for me.

BabyBear

5th Jan 2012, 18:19

vanHorck, you voice what I and no doubt others have been thinking for some time.

I have concluded that it is merely human nature in that it is more difficult to speculate, or even discuss events when those involved are known and or respected. As a species we tend to feel less comfortable discussing events when we are closer to them. Consequently I believe that by applying my theory we would find that different forumites mishaps would be treated differently. Anything from certain individuals requesting accidents are not discussed, where those involved are known to them, to taking the p1ss if they are not known.

Just human nature!

BB

stevelup

5th Jan 2012, 18:54

It should be noted that the AAIB in regards to this matter have decided that they have no interest or need to conduct an investigation. Just as they would if it was in your garage or shed.

I find that quite surprising.

According to the website, the purpose of the AAIB is:

To improve aviation safety by determining the causes of air accidents and serious incidents and making safety recommendations intended to prevent recurrence

That that the aircraft wasn't being flown doesn't change the fact that it was a serious incident involving an aircraft (and a pilot) at an airfield.

If this doesn't come under their remit, you have to wonder what does?!

englishal

5th Jan 2012, 19:10

I think it is useful to discuss any accident, so that we can learn from it and hopefully not have to deal with the same situation ourselves.

I'd like to know what was the likely cause of this fire, whether it was due to gas on a hot engine or turbo, smoking around avgas, electrical faults or whatever, not to judge someone, but to learn from it so I don't make the same mistakes.

If someone avoids being in the same situation due to learning on somewhere like Pprune then at least one good thing might come out of what is clearly a horrible and tragic accident. If someone knows the actual cause of the accident, then withholding that information is not actually doing any good and merely fuels speculation.

Vino Collapso

5th Jan 2012, 19:12

I find that quite surprising.

So do I.

I have known the AAIB report on aircraft that have suffered fire damage whilst no one was in attendance.

I am not goimg to speculate but on the basis of that statement this is not an aviation event.

BabyBear

5th Jan 2012, 19:28

englishal, we don't need to be told an accident was due to smoking around avgas to learn not to smoke around avgas! Indeed there are probably very few, if any, accidents that would be prevented by immediately going public with all known details of all accidents.

I agree it is useful to discuss, or even read others comments on accidents to help prevent falling foul of the same, however I think the content of your post is in danger of weakening your argument!

BB

stickandrudderman

5th Jan 2012, 21:32

I think people are too sensitive.
Discussions, whether in person or on ananonymous forum, should always be positive if contributors are allowed to express their views/opinions and are able in return to recieve criticism/feedback/education (however you want to describe it).
The problem is that a sensitive social culture breeds defensiveness and therefore emotional reactions are commonplace.

You can call me "Big nose".
I can reply "How do you define big and is that a complement or an insult?"
or "thanks very much!" or "You're not so bad yourself conkface!"

Or I can do like most people do and react emotionally and fuel the animosity..........

Discuss!

BabyBear

5th Jan 2012, 21:39

Of course the other consideration is that maybe people are 'concerned' how other 'respected' forumites will view them if they say too much.

BB

ChrisVJ

5th Jan 2012, 22:15

In the last two years our small group, (about four hundred owners but less on line,) has lost a couple of stalwarts. As they were both outgoing and big contributors to both our technical and social sites their loss hit particularly hard.

After the first event, B's wife asked another of our number to post that she expected us to discuss the accident and not to hold back from discussion for those reasons we speculate on Pprune.

After G's accident his wife posted to tell us how she felt and it allowed us to express our support, though there has been less discussion.

Personally it won't matter a whole lot to me, whether dead or injured, if you discuss an accident I am involved in. It would matter if something similar happened to someone else who could have known better by discussing it. That would be too PC, and I hate PC.

Vino Collapso

5th Jan 2012, 22:34

I'd like to know what was the likely cause of this fire, whether it was due to gas on a hot engine or turbo, smoking around avgas, electrical faults or whatever, not to judge someone, but to learn from it so I don't make the same mistakes.

It would seem highly likely that it was none of the above otherwise the AAIB would get involved.

Nor would it be likely to be volatile liquids stored in an aircraft otherwise the AAIB would advise against such practice in their subsequent recomendations. If it was a liquid used in the operation or maintenance of aircraft it would definitely come within their remit and demand investigation.

Pace

6th Jan 2012, 00:56

I have to admit I go with GoldenEaglePilot on this. Many of us are shocked that one minute David who was owed 7K and discussed his debt openly in the Weaver thread offered to give it to charity which shows the character of the man!!!!

The next minute a new post stated that he had been so badly burnt! 90% !That his survival is in question.
The poor guy has a family and young children and I find it distasteful and pointless at this stage to discuss why?

pprune can hold shocks. My best friend and a second father to me who was a huge support through my own difficult times and was also an elderly ferry pilot crashed a 172 on such a ferry. I spoke with him on the Sunday when he was in Canada opened up pprune at the start of the week to find out about his death in these threads.

It is a matter of respect for the suffering of others that we should allow a small shock time before disecting the reason why.

Pace

vanHorck

6th Jan 2012, 06:32

There is no doubt everyone feels the hurt and shows the respect due when this happens.... Even more so when you know the person through a forum or better still personally.

When a Dutchman crashed a Malibu in Austria on a flight from the UK a few years ago we intensely discussed the matter here. No one knew if the pilot was a pprune poster. His relatives and friends followed the thread here as well. Harsh words were said, relatives and friends suffered because of that, but in the end (and this is my evaluation) that thread helped some of those involved to come to terms with what happened. I know because I was personally in touch with some.

We are not to decide if some people are more deserving of silence out of respect than others. All human life is precious.

(and please don't come back about this being a ground fire, this thread is not about the accident)

mad_jock

6th Jan 2012, 08:48

90% hells bells how old is he?

Pace

6th Jan 2012, 10:08

Mad Jock think he is 49 not good :(

mad_jock

6th Jan 2012, 11:46

Folks I really would suggest that we leave this one alone for the family.

Look up Baux score and you will see what I mean.

Appart from the usual advice of venting an area before turning switches on if there is anything flammable about. This was taught to me by my Q who promptly punched me in the face when I turned a light switch on when he had just opened a store room door. Apparently there was a reason for the extractor fan switch being outside the door.

Don't store stuff in aircraft you don't need to. Sealed bottles only kept in a secondary individual sealed bag. Don't have a carboard box of bottles of various types eg brake fluid, engine oil and WD40.

Don't have rags covered in hydrocarbons stuffed ontop of the same box.

There won't be much to tell to be honest.

There are way to many of these accidents, H&S regulations has cut them down in industry but they do still happen way to often.

Hopefully we will find out from the man himself what happened in 6-12 months.

andrew_wallis

6th Jan 2012, 16:02

As per mad jock- I have to agree with what he says.
I don't think publishing percentage burns is at all helpful, conclusions can and will be drawn, and may be very wrong.
I too can see the point of discussion but % burns in particular leads to conclusions based on age which I don't think will help ANY of us understand anything any better.

Andrew
(Medical practitioner who has worked on a burns unit.)

peterh337

6th Jan 2012, 20:21

One thing which has struck me in the past is that in low-end GA (that is, below the $3M turboprop level) the various cockpit switches are not hermetically sealed. They are just normal open switches.

So if you have a fuel leak you need to think twice about switching stuff on or off.

One of the many changes NASA did after the Apollo 11 fire was to make sure all switches and CBs were sealed.

Sealed switches have always been available. They tend to cost about 10x more (i.e. about £5). In the aero business, if you do stuff 100% to rule, the £5 becomes £50-100 (and nobody will be installing too many of those in a plane which sells for a mere £200k and which you have to build for less than half that. But you have that option for any retrofit work. They are easily available e.g. this (http://www.apem.com/military.html).

In my TB20 the PTT button is a sealed switch, but most of the others aren't.

mad_jock

7th Jan 2012, 12:04

And also why on earth you would put the primer anywhere near to the master switch.

Pace

3rd May 2013, 17:33

David

You must have been to hell and back with all that has happened to you.
I had heard of an intended insurance claim and deliberately torching the aircraft which went wrong, that was a common knowledge claim made by some as well as many other wild and bizarre claims.

My reaction was that even if true that you had suffered enough as its easy to tell a good man and sometimes desperate people do desperate things.

I am pleased that you have clarified that point.

Crellin/David Henderson/GEP took many people into his confidence. I am a very instinctive person and had bad vibes with that guy from day one. A nasty bit of stuff who would stoop to any depth sadly even Towers was taken in and he turned his evil wrath towards Towers.
I do not intend to go into the detail which was sickening.

Since then all discussion on Crellin has been banned here. I presume to save face and self protection more than anything else.
I will be surprised if this posting is allowed to develop.

PPRUNE had turned into a nasty place with self policing, dictatorship, crusades and worse. People were leaving in droves in disgust.
Recently it has been quiet and more like it used to be with people talking about aviation matters.

Regardless I admire you for going through what you have with such bravery and coming out the other side.
Its great to have you back posting and if not already! flying

Pace

Jetblu

3rd May 2013, 18:05

Pace,

The post/thread will be staying. ;)

All the stories started with Crellin was for his own financial gain. Nobody I know would be so stupid to deliberately torch an aircraft, especially being inside it. The aircraft was damaged, but not set on fire.

It is good to be back and if there is anything I can do to help anyone, give me a shout.

piperboy84

3rd May 2013, 19:29

Good luck with the recovery and getting back on track, your a tough guy getting thru all that.

Contacttower

3rd May 2013, 19:58

I have no personal knowledge of any of the individuals involved in this case, although I did on occasion attempt to follow the Weaver thread.

All I can say is that is one incredible story!

cockney steve

3rd May 2013, 21:26

David, a horrific chain of events to endure.
I really don't want to believe you are such a poor judge of character thet you would marry ashallow , gullible woman. It's obvious this evil man brainwashed her when she was so vulnerable,so I have some sympathy with her actions.-however, it doesn't alter the fact that your family has been torn apart, your reputation has been assasinated, you have suffered grave injuries and ,no doubt, disfigurement and have lost property and a year of your life.

It makes my problems and no doubt, many others' pale into insignificance.

Sir, i salute you in your strength, courage and fortitude.
One would hope for justice,-if ever anyone deserved it, it's you.
Disclaimers Etc. as per Contact towers' post.

Pace

3rd May 2013, 23:22

One would hope for justice

Sadly justice as you put it does not put things back! Sometimes lessons learnt,acceptance and moving on are better goals
The Weaver / Crellin affair had no bearing on the awful accident that befell David
Regarding Crellin people need protecting from
The evil manipulations of that man who will stoop to the depth of depravity and shows no genuine caring towards anyone but that is a different issue to David's suffering

Pace

Jetblu

4th May 2013, 19:01

Thanks all for the continued messages and PM's. :ok:

cockney steve - unfortunately, yes, I did make that mistake with poor judgment of character. I hold myself personally responsible for this, as I had cold feet 3 times and pulled out, although the charm later succeeded and I succumbered. Lesson learnt!

Pace - You are more confident than I. At around mid March time my sister visited me in hospital (as she did many times) and produced a written transcript from an alleged Skype recorded conversation between Crellin and Weaver's girlfriend. In the transcript Weaver's girlfriend says that Weaver was in the vicinity of my "accident" and that I deserved everything. If the conversation/transcript can be believed, she also implicates Crellin. This document was sent to her by email from Crellin. My sister was told that Crellin had notified the police. But you are right Pace, we can't change backwards, the only way is forwards. :ok:

I am also receiving lots of the same questions in pm's, so I will touch the main 4 that are repeatedly asked.

Will I fly again ? You try stopping me! Once my fitness level has reached a level where I am 100% confident of passing the class 2, I will be back up in the air like a flash! I envisage this being around July time at my current rate of progress.

Am I disfigured ? Not really. I was very lucky in the grand scale of things. I had 75%-80% burn and had many hours of surgery for skin grafts, but all has now healed. No more sunbathing in the Caribbean for me. :bored:

How have the children reacted ? I have not seen my children since January 2nd last year, albeit my 1 year old daughter for 1 hour in August 2012. Whilst having a tracheoscopy fitted whilst in intensive care, (this equipment is fitted into the windpipe just below the voice box). Upon removal, my voice changed to what it once was, although gradually it has been coming back. In August, my wife brought our children to the house to see me. My middle daughter (5) walked into the house and as I said "hello" immediately ran back out of the house and said "that is not my Daddy" This alarmed my eldest daughter (9) who was behind her, who in turn also ran back to my wife's car. Since that date, my wife has refused to let me see the children, so I still currently pursuing this through various channels.

I have transferred money to you! Ladies and Gentleman. Thank you very much for your kind gestures. I, or she, did not need any money and I guess some of you already realise that this was another Kevin Crellin/GEP scam. My best advise is this. Contact PC Ian Gibband PC5525
[email protected] Telephone 01865 841148 extension 4577

It is now known that some of my personal documents have been forwarded about by Crellin. Some are genuine, some have been amended and some have been manufactured. If anyone has received any such documents from Crellin, the police would also like to hear from you.

Pace

5th May 2013, 09:26

JetBlue

If you are implying that there may have been involvement in your accident then that is very serious indeed ?
You must have been to hell and back and it's very sad that you are not getting regular contact with the kids!
One positive side is that the disfigurement is not too bad and that you cannot wait to fly again!

Take care

Pace

stickandrudderman

5th May 2013, 19:22

JHC.
Jetblu, I don't know you or anyone in this sorry tale, but I do know that this is one of the most horrific stories I have ever heard and if you have the fortitude to see it through and come out smiling you are a better man than me.
I salute you.:D:D:D:D:D

piperboy84

5th May 2013, 19:58

I,m with stickandrudder, I could not handle someone gratuitously dishing me that much sh&t from so many different directions affecting everything that is important like family, health, privacy, ability to earn, hobby etc. I would go absolutely postal

Pilot DAR

6th May 2013, 02:15

Jetblu,

I'm very happy to see that you're back contributing here, that's something. I have great empathy for what you have been through. In my capacity as a volunteer firefighter, I have some experience with burns. But you know more than I do about that, so for me to "understand" would be silly - I don't. For all the time I spent in the Cessna 340, I know how hard they are to get out of quickly, particularly in the dark, but I don't really "understand" that either, 'cause I've never had to rush out of one..

It sounds like you've been given a second life, take it a run - particularly in a different direction than some people mentioned here. This tale has so many layers, I struggle to follow. But I have more background than I really expected to have anyway.

Shortly after the event, I was somehow drawn into the PM's which circulated, and I can see that suspiciously too much interest in the details was demonstrated by a person. The more I saw, the less I liked, so I distanced myself.

Last fall, a whole other much less serious, but annoying none the less, event was also linked to this person, and again, I was in the PM trail. There was certainly a loser, though darned if I could figure out why anyone need lose, 'cause there was nothing to be won on the other side. The result was the loss of a lot of good people from PPRuNe, which I understand.

It is unfortunate that a layer in your very unhappy event is linked through PPRuNe. I cannot imagine how there is anything to be gained - but then, I'm interested in planes and pilots, not intrigue.

I think you should shop out your story to a mystery movie company - they could never dream that up!

Welcome back, in every sense...

Desert Dawg

6th May 2013, 06:32

I agree with Pilot Dar,

Although it may seem crass (to some) to shop out your story to a movie company, there are some things to gain from doing so in my opinion.

1. You can tell your story, as you have done here on PPRuNe, to help others stay away from horrendous people like Crellin et al...

2. Your story is one of courage. To see the positive side of a bad situation and make a conscious choice to follow a path to new found success and happiness.

3. To earn some cash to help pay your medical bills, and donate to your Flying School for the Disabled (or any other charity you choose). Lets face it - you need some cash to move on with your life.

David... you are a stronger man than most. Your outlook on life is an example of how to overcome adversity and grow stronger. Your story needs to be told David.

I wish you the very best of health and happiness in the days, weeks and years to come David.

Jetblu

6th May 2013, 13:22

Pilot DAR. Thank you. It is also great to see you back contributing as well. Most of your posts were enjoyable, informative and knowledgeable reading, that said, in this instance, your misinformed background knowledge has perhaps contributed to some of those layers, and what you would call "less serious", I would call "extremely serious" so at that juncture, I will again agree to disagree with you.

There is only one (1) layer that gives us cause for concern and I'm not sure that we should be distracted from that.

"I can't imagine how there is anything to be gained" ? That was another joke, right ?

If you think that this story would make a mystery movie, again I would say that it would make a Hollywood blockbuster, as the cake has yet to be iced, although the ingredients are to hand.

We could perhaps all contribute to the best storyline as the rumours that I have heard range far and wide.

a/ I was a drugs dealer and needed to lose an aircraft due to contamination.
b/ I needed to shift a body and I only reported 1 pilot on board the ditching.
c/ I have a safe deposit containing missing bullion as I have been found with the key.
d/ I was a porn star who performs all acts in an aircraft. Perhaps we could interlink that with No 1 above, or would that be another "charlie" which would have to be engaged. We could go for both, but that would really be far fetched.
e/ I was overdrawn by £1M and was hoping to make a claim. Indecisive about what policy should be invented for the storyline.
f/ We have to run with the ex solicitor/private investigator/SAS and UAV specialist and how this transpired into a fake identity with fake qualifications, and how the UAV turned out to be a remote controlled model aircraft, but I refuse to bring in the bit about wigs, handbags and painting his nails. That would be a total anti climax.

Through many years, I have supported various charities. If any money can be generated from this epic, it will be going to a burns charity, without question.

Pace

6th May 2013, 16:48

JetBlu

Two things really puzzle me

Firstly after months and months of trying to bring up the subject of david Henderson/GoldenEaglePilot/ Crellin! Each time the threads and posts were deleted to the point of becoming a forum joke.
The delete, delete, delete threads.
What has happened now that discussion is allowed on the unspoken name?

Second for over a year the Weaver thread had nearly a million hits.
Trying to discuss GEP and the deletions had quite a few hits.
Ghengis was booted out of pprune by his Majesty Kevin Crellin and his influence in pprune.
Now discussion miraculously appears to be back on the level of interest appears to be almost zero other than the odd sympathy post?
Oh well funny world we live in.

Pace

flybymike

6th May 2013, 19:34

My level of interest is considerable, but I find the whole saga so bizarre and incomprehensible I can offer no further comment.

Jetblu

6th May 2013, 20:15

Pace,

I was taught to be cautious, but in saying that, man only learns in two ways, one by reading, and the other by association with smarter people. In this instance, your puzzling thoughts may have something to do with a bit of both.

What I can say to get the ball rolling is this. I have never been shy in coming forward and standing up. I stood up to all the threats and potentially stood to lose £7K by opening my mouth. None of that worried me in the slightest. I was more concerned with helping and preventing others by losing more money to Weaver.

In this instance, as far as I am concerned, nothing has changed. We have another :mad: whom in my estimation is even worse. It is believed that you yourself are a victim, yet you seem to have greater concerns and have not said anything.

Put your **** on the block and lead the way. Other victims may follow, but from what I understand, people are afraid to be named and shamed in fear of being branded gullible, by being drawn in by him. All I can say to people is this. Don't be ashamed. If I can get drawn in, anyone can, and you might find the same from powers that be.

The other thing to think about Pace is reverse psychology. Before, knowing that you were going to have your post deleted, people flew in fast to post. This time the thread/posts have remained so they have probably thought differently. I would sometimes say to the kids, "you are not wearing your coat today!" and it always produced positive results. ;)

As I have said previously. I have not given people 2 years of my life story because I was bored. I have plenty to be getting on with. I have given it to help and assist with the cause.

flybymike - every little bit helps :ok:

Pace

7th May 2013, 00:23

JetBlu

I am a very minor victim financially of kevin Crellin / GEP! To the value of a meal out for two which was a donation I made to support your wife and children or so Kevin Crellin claimed.
With claims made by others which I though was a hoax I checked the bank details where that small amount of money had gone and was horrified to see the account numbers were the same as the ones used on a radio control model site and where others had sent money ie Kevin Crellin a convicted Fraudsters account.
At that point I believed Kevin Crellin and Golden eagle pilot were one and the same.
I was also reliably informed that Ghengis the engineer had been kicked out because he had exposed the rough area where GoldenEaglePilot lived.
GEP was livid and had him expelled.
Kevin Crellin had infiltrated the very heart of pprune and especially Towers and these two were on a clean up aviation mission.
The Weaver thread had turned into a show where innocent people were dragged into a forum court a Kangaroo court where those innocent people were blackend and used in a game for the so called righteous crusaders.
The pprune code of conduct went out of the window with abuse of posters allowed if it suited the cause and bannings brought into force if it did not!
The forum turned into a bear bating arena with those calling for blood and which eventually forced many to leave the forums in disgust!!
Through all that one of the main driving forces who had massive support was a convicted criminal called Kevin Crellin.
Towers was a victim manipulated by this evil man Kevin Crellin who then turned his fire onto Towers when he was smelt out like the below contempt rat he was.
people talk about being victims? yet most victims play a part in their own downfall and act as if they have no control over that down fall.
For me the Weaver thread turned pprune into a not very nice place conducted by a convicted fraudster and criminal by the name of Kevin crellin

Pace

Pilot DAR

7th May 2013, 04:08

Pace has boldly stepped forward to say (and identify by name) what I was thinking. I was contacted by GEP, as I know for a fact other prominent PPRuNers were also. I have few facts, so I won't risk speculating, and being guilty of an error, or an "outing".

I can say from my perspective, one of the "layers" was what happened to Genghis, which was, and remains largely outrageous. That layer may not be directly related to Jetblu, but it has a connection. There are other layers too.

Jetblu, from your perspective, and very fairly so, this is totally serious business, and I would never seek to minimize that. I'm just containing my statements to what I know for myself, and not speculation.

When GEP contacted me, following Jetblu's very unhappy event, I responded with interest, and did have some communication with other PPRuNers as well, which all centered on being directly supporting to Jetblu. It all appeared to be all of the highest intentions. Apparently, that was not the case. I have looked for the messages, but I have deleted them over time.

Jetblu, it sounds like you have some very valid points, for which society's resolution sounds very appropriate. I will leave that work to the people who need to do it. If I have information which is needed, I will truthfully relate the little I know to a suitably empowered legal person.

In addition finding some resolution for Jetblu, I hope PPRuNe management looks at this whole debacle in the PPRuNe context, and in a collective gasp, says: "We'll never let that happen again!). Time will tell....

rennaps

7th May 2013, 06:41

Jetblu

Good to hear that you are getting on with things. You inspired me with your Sunday post.

As one of the people affected, I will stand-up.

I was gullible and swallowed GEP/Henderson/Crellin's lies hook, line and sinker.

THE BAIT
email from Henderson/Crellin
----------------------
Dave unfortunately has left a financial mess for his family (wife plus three young girls, ranging from a few months old to 7) It was discovered after the accident that the family home was up for repossession. His family have not only had to face the stress of the accident but also the financial mess he left behind.

Any help that anyone can give them will be very gratefully received

Are you on Skype? It might be easier to chat?

The extent of the financial mess is being kept quiet to avoid any embarrassment for the family - its not their fault but Dave's
-----------------------------

THE HOOK

email from Henderson/Crellin
----------------------
Thanks for your kind offer of help for Hayley and the girls. The account that has been set up for any donations is
sort code: 07 44 56
account number: 47683363 (Hayley Green)
-----------------------------

THE LINE

email from Henderson/Crellin
----------------------

I rang the local brach - no problem getting the info
Regards

David

On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Rennaps wrote:
Hi again David,

Yes, it was good to talk to you

To do an international bank transfer I need:

Bank Name : Nationwide
Account name: Hayley Green

Account number: 47683363

(seems a bit short to me or does the sort code go in front of the account number) ??

IBAN number: GB45NAIA07011647683363
Swift code: MIDLGB22
-----------------------------

THE SINKER

email from Henderson/Crellin
----------------------
Good morning,

Was at a friends last night, had some fun bringing him up to date on the Weaver saga on PPrune, which now includes Weavers transexual "minder" who has been flying without a medical following heart problems.

The name on the account is Kevin R. Crellin. all other details are the same. He opened the account for Hayley to use due to the difficulties she had opening a new account because of her poor credit rating. I must admit I feel sorry for her, the aftermath of the fire and Dave will stay with them for the rest of her life

Dave Green's lost son visited him last night. Which was fantastic news.
-------------------------------

And many Skype phone calls in between.

As I said I fell for it hook, line and sinker.
I feel rather silly that I allowed myself (at my age) to be conned.
However I must say that not only was I stupid but in my defense, Crellin was good.

PPRuNe Towers

7th May 2013, 07:10

Rennaps,

I've spent months collecting PM's from Crellin to PPRuNers while he was casting for money. Yours is the first I've seen which directly attaches Hayley's name to a bank account - in the examples I have it was inferred but not directly stated.

If anyone else has a similar PM's or emails which are equally bold in perhaps linking Crellin's bank account to her name I'd be very grateful for copies. The reasoning should be pretty obvious. And yes, I do have a statement from Hayley. No money ever came from that account, that she only over received the flowers despatched on behalf of all of us by PPRuNe on the 6th January 2012 and a single very specific donation from a specific type of account.

Rob

AN2 Driver

7th May 2013, 12:38

rennaps,

you were not the only one, MANY of us fell for it. Me too. I am compiling the data now and will forward them to PPTowers and Jetblu as soon as I can find it all.

Jetblu

I am delighted to see you post again. Many of us here feared (rightly as it appears) for your life and (wrongly) assumed that the "help" effort initiated by GEP would do something pprune could be proud of. Well, it turns out, the opposite happened.

But likewise, it appears that some of our prayers here for your life have been heard. You are with us and I for one will stand with you and the others here to right the wrong which has happened at the hands of GEP.

We really should make an effort now to clear up the whole mess, that is we need to compile data from everyone who has contributed to this in order to find out just what amounts we are talking of and to give law enforcement the best possibilities to go after this guy and possibly recover some of the amount he took from us.

Like yourself, I am not interested in recovering the money I gave for myself, but would leave it to Jetblu to decide what to do with anything that is recovered from Crellin if anything. But I AM interested in justice to be done.

Best regards
An2 Driver

Jetblu

7th May 2013, 12:57

Pace,

I took on board what you said, and upon reflection, I decided to delete my original post . Whilst I am still very happy to share the details of events, I felt that it was perhaps receiving a different type of attention from what my post was fundamentally designed to achieve. I can now see some focus in the right direction, but in saying that, I think that I need to adjust course once again and counteract for the other drift thrown in. I have one (1)
person in my sight from this orchestrated ghastly affair, and make no mistake, that is not the other poster that you mention. At this juncture, please lets sort the wheat from the chaff and concentrate with total focus.

Thank you for your account.

Pilot DAR

Much similar to what I have to Pace (see above). Thank you for your support. As I have said in my previous posts, if you find anything of any significance that was forwarded to you by GEP, please forward it onto the authorities. I am pleased to hear that you yourself was not a victim.

rennaps

Thank you for your detailed post. I can honestly see how you were taken in as I would have done exactly the same thing as you. I concur with you, Kevin Crellin is very clever at what he does and says, that is the frightening part.
My family genuinely believed him what with saying and that he was an ex solicitor and ex SAS etc etc. The part I still find remarkable to this day is that Hayley never did believe that he was a solicitor having overheard a telephone conversation on loudspeaker that I had with him. One of life's mysteries eh.

I was forever getting ridiculed by her with her famous quote. "charity begins at home" No matter how much money I gave her, any monies that I gave to charities was wrong in her eyes. All monies should have been diverted to her bank account. :rolleyes: That is the same to this date. I see little point in expanding, but I can genuinely say the first or second home was never repossessed. The beauty treatments were ongoing throughout, meals out, concerts and parties continued, as did the constant comings and goings of various men.

She did attempt to sell my house at one stage. This was blocked by my family via the High Court. I understand that she also attempted to sell her own home but then stopped and decided that the rent from tht was producing a good income.

She did relieve me of my Jaguar and Yamaha R1. She was then attempting to also relieve me of my aircraft as well, but that was again stopped.

It was interesting to note the reference to Weavers "transexual" minder.
Crellin forwarded myself and another well known ferry pilot an email in October 2011 with a link on the same subject. That link has now proven to have been set up by Crellin himself. Blow me down, in February 2012, Crellin produced another manufactured document to Hayley suggesting that I had had an affair with my ex wife. It was only upon scrutiny of that document by the Police that they noticed another "transexual" website link. :D

AN2 Driver.

Thank you for your post. Like I said, I am no nobody's fool, and even I fell for it. There are even people a lot smarter than I who also fell for it, and the nice thing demonstrated here on PPRuNe is that the wrong is being put to right. :D

Giving money to charity is a good thing in my estimation, (although in this instance, wrong) but if people behind the scenes are manipulating and diverting monies to justify their own ends, that needs stopping, and stopping fast!

Pace

7th May 2013, 13:29

JetBlu

I am really sorry to hear about the antics of your ex. Problems with matters of the heart are that we cannot see or do not want to see the reality of who we are with.
It takes a life event like the one that happened to you to see someone in their true colors.
Hers was to run and take what she could in the process so you are far better without someone like that!
Please look after your own interests now as people who take from you will not give a damn about you in the future.

Yes some of us come from this from a different angle for you the Weaver thread was a means of righting wrongs for me it was an in sight into the Lynch mob mentality which grew in that thread which GEP played a major role in creating.

pprune is a far nicer place again

Pace

Evanelpus

7th May 2013, 15:50

I was forever getting ridiculed by her with her famous quote. "charity begins at home" No matter how much money I gave her, any monies that I gave to charities was wrong in her eyes. All monies should have been diverted to her bank account. That is the same to this date. I see little point in expanding, but I can genuinely say the first or second home was never repossessed. The beauty treatments were ongoing throughout, meals out, concerts and parties continued, as did the constant comings and goings of various men.

Is PPRuNe really the place to infer that your (ex) other half is a ruthless, money grabbing slapper?

I don't think so and it doesn't do you any favours for suggesting it. I've been there, done it and had to borrow the money for the t-shirt but writing what you have makes you no better than her. There are two sides to every story and I'm sure you are a decent bloke and I can relate in so many ways with your personal circumstances. I appreciate it must hurt like hell but the most important thing now is to move on.

I sincerely hope you get to make things up with your kids, that really is c:mad:

All the best

riverrock83

7th May 2013, 17:04

Jetblu

7th May 2013, 17:47

(thread drift)

Pace,

I hear what you are saying, and I do understand, honestly. I myself wondered why GEP put so much effort into the Weaver thread. I came to the conclusion that whilst he was not a victim of Weavers (as I was) that he genuinely wanted to help. Believe it or not, I had a lunch meeting with 2 highly honorable and respectable PPRuNe posters back in Nov/Dec 2011 whom categorically did not trust GEP. Whilst I had no reason whatsoever for disbelieving them, I gave GEP the benefit of doubt. To this day, I still question my thoughts. 2 proven well known figures against someone who says he is what he says is. :ugh:

But one has to be careful generalising. Look at the lengths I went to stop Weaver. Look at the aircraft I was retrieving from Weaver on behalf of disgruntled customers as he was threatening them. I was even going out of my way to accommodate the new ferry pilot who was collecting the aircraft for the end user of a flying doctor in Africa. People could have pointed fingers at me and wondered why I was going to such great lengths, but the truth of the matter was that I genuinely wanted to help. My outlook on life was perhaps to take a step back, but that is easier said than done. Especially in this instance.

Yes, I am now relieved that I am shot of her. The marriage was mostly down to my own stupidity having previously walked away 3 times with niggling doubts. I think the terminology is called "trapped". I was constantly receiving scan pictures through the post and being asked to help with a name. I had previously said that perhaps an abortion was better suited for everyone. I finally gave in with her constant promises. Before allowing her to move in with me it was on a condition that I would purchase her rented house so that she had security if the relationship did not work. 2 years later we married (2006) I purely offer this information with no malice but again to help other posters understand the law at my expense. The divorce petition cited the manufactured affair with ex wife. It cited that I had asked for an abortion 2 years prior to marriage ??? And it cited that I was injured in an accident and that insurers had started an investigation. Little did I know at that stage that it was Crellin who instigated it. (I should have known :rolleyes:)
The biggest lesson to learn here is that event/s can be cited long before you even get married. Beware and take note!

Pace the hardest thing to come to terms with more so than the injury or learning to walk again etc etc etc was coming home to find a completely empty house. Whilst the locks were changed after the High Court order, she had already ransacked the house. I only had my clothes and a few books. The entire furniture, pictures, my jewellry, my private keepsakes, tools in garage absolutely everything was gone. When I challenged her for my personal belongings to be returned she said "I wanted the house to be sold, I have sold given away or thrown your belongings away because I was told that you were going to die! I'm still shocked that you didn't!" I told her that they had failed and that she should seek a refund. :yuk:

Evanelpus - Your words, not mine. I do not offer any suggestions but evidence to assist others. I've moved on. :ok:

Riverrock83 - I have all my family and friends around me. (ex ex and children)
I am probably one of the most horizontal people that you could meet. She was forgiven many times but always took advantage of my nature. I am far from bitter or resentful. Up until Nov 12, I was still prepared to forgive her.
Her malice kicked in when she says that I cannot see the children and then asks a neighbour 100yds away to babysit on the condition that they will not let me see my daughter, incase I scare her. Apparently, my 1 yr old told my ex this in her own words. I speak to the children over the phone. The only time I hear from her or her solicitor is for money. One of the other big shockers to stomach was discovering that my will had been destroyed.
In my will I had my first son named from my previous marriage and my eldest daughter named from my second. I completely overlooked matters with day to day living and did not amend it to incorporate my 2 subsequent daughters. (my fault) I discovered that an application had been made for her to become sole beneficiary.

Anyway, lets drop all this and back to Crellin................

asdf1234

7th May 2013, 18:34

Jetblu,

If you need help with regaining contact with your children can I suggest you contact Families Need Father. The website address is www.fnf.org.uk (http://www.fnf.org.uk)

FNF is a charity. I'm not selling the charity's services (so please don't block my post PPRuNe Towers!) but from experience - my own included - people in the aviation industry do seem to suffer a higher than average incidence of divorce and as a result parent-child alienation.

If my post helps Jetblu or anyone else out there that needs good advice from people who have "been there, seen it, got the sticker" then all well and good. I'm happy for people to PM me for contact details.

ASDF

Jetblu

7th May 2013, 18:47

asdf1234 - Many thanks for info. Solicitor currently dealing. :ok:

Pace

7th May 2013, 21:23

In my will I had my first son named from my previous marriage and my eldest daughter named from my second. I completely overlooked matters with day to day living and did not amend it to incorporate my 2 subsequent daughters. (my fault) I discovered that an application had been made for her to become sole beneficiary.

JetBlu

My god you are a glutton for punishment. One failed marriage and being dragged through the courts like a lamb to the slaughter was enough for me! never again will I sign what has basically turned into a contract to sign half (or more) of everything you own and have created to another.
Utter madness in this day and age IMO :ugh: 3 Marriages ??? When will you learn dear boy ;)
As Eddie Irvine said if it Flies, floats or Flucks rent do NOT buy!!!
I suppose you own your own aircraft too???

JetBlue

You do NOT have to marry the things :E a few illusive qualities and un attainability plus a bit of commitment phobe does wonders :E
Think rather than marrying 3 in succession you could forget the marriage thing and have 3 on the go at the same time :ok: Then you protect yourself and keep them all guessing!

Pace

Jetblu

7th May 2013, 22:06

Steady on Pace. 2

There will not be No 3. That could finish me off.

g/f ok who can love me long time. ;)

Pilot DAR

8th May 2013, 00:14

If anyone else has a similar PM's or emails which are equally bold in perhaps linking Crellin's bank account to her name I'd be very grateful for copies

I also received emails from GEP with the same wording which rennaps has posted, though I don't think I kept them. I recognize the wording though. I have one more archive which might have retained them, to which I don't presently have access. I will look when I can.

I will attest though, that it a certainty that GEP was soliciting funds, which purpose was stated as being support for Jetblu's wife Hayley, and two daughters. I never had any followup as to the outcome of the contributions, other than my faith in my fellow man and pilot. I did not maintain communication with GEP, or anyone else on this subject much after the event.

mad_jock

8th May 2013, 08:11

Apart from the usual if fly's floats or... its cheaper renting.

One day in the crew room waiting for the fog to clear the young first officers are discussing things as they do.

There had been a brothel raided at the weekend and they were discussing the pro and cons of renting.

The old 63 year old ex RAF squadron leader crumpled his paper and I though here we go a proper bollocking is going to ensue this should be good.

He uttered the words "you don't pay for the sex, you pay them to go away afterwards" and continued to read his paper after that bit of wisdom. It did have the effect of shutting the FO's up though.

asdf1234

8th May 2013, 11:17

For those considering renting vs buying see the following that may give some advice...

Once upon a time, a pilot asked a beautiful princess,

"Will you marry me?"............The princess said, "No!"

And the pilot lived happily ever after and flew jets all over the world and drove hot cars and chased skinny long-legged big-breasted flight attendants and hunted and fished and went to topless bars and dated women half his age and drank Captain Morgan and never heard bitching and never paid child support or alimony and kept his house and guns and ate cold leftover meals, potato chips and never got cheated on while he was at work and all his friends and family thought he was frickin' cool as hell and he had tons of money in the bank and left the toilet seat up........The end.

Jetblu

8th May 2013, 17:08

Nigd3. Thanks. :ok:

One for the jury. This subject was touched upon within my initial post, but I will set the scene again. Admitted to hospital 02/01/12. 03/01/12 Crellin telephones and speaks with wife offering his services. (The skipper is obviously missing, being unconscious and in a coma), so the next chain of command/panel of family members thinks that this would be a good idea. Crellin is invited to my house and arrives approx 10/01/12. During his visit, he tells my family that whilst he no longer practices as a solicitor, he is nevertheless still attached to the secret services and his intelligence is that I had deliberately set light to the aircraft. :rolleyes: Furthermore, reporters would be soon attending in their droves and that my wife and children should immediately depart to a home in USA. I understand the police were also supposed to be coming crashing through the door any moment.
(you couldn't make this up) He leaves the house with private and confidential information/Driving Licence/Passport details/my aircraft logbooks/maintenance records/laptop containing aircraft accounts, and off he departs into the moonlight with tens of thousands of pounds of my property.

Approx 4 weeks later, Crellin reports that he has broken the password code to my laptop/email account/electronic accounts, and he reports that he has found evidence that I had been having an affair with my ex wife. Family believe that this allegation is supported by email evidence. After approx 2 weeks of continuous calls to him asking him to produce the evidence, he manufactures and produces a A4 page of messages from a transexual forum.
One message purports to be my ex wife thanking me for a fun day of frolics in my aircraft and yet more fun when I brought her home for round two. (I'm a lightweight and could have only done 4 hours tops anyway :p )

THE QUESTION.

We know that the document is fabricated, we know the affair didn't happen,
we know the matter of passing the manufactured document isn't criminal and we know little can be done in the civil courts. It is obvious that the document has caused life changing events...........so what would you do?

421C

8th May 2013, 19:26

so what would you do?

Jetblu
With the very best wishes for your complete recovery and resolution of your troubles, forgive me making 3 rather blunt suggestions:

1. I would stop writing about this on an anonymous internet forum
2. I would seek the counsel of the 2 friends you mentioned in an earlier post, whose advice you previously ignored and which proved wiser than a zillion posts here, and follow their advice this time
3. I would continue my efforts to help people, but confine them to the many ways one can help people without engaging in internet forum detective witchhunts.

brgds,
421C (unrelated!)

Halfbaked_Boy

8th May 2013, 22:18

...........so what would you do?

Kill Crellin?

Oh and before I get 'attacked'... I'm just answering the question.

piperboy84

8th May 2013, 23:19

All this talk about being taken in, I personally totally believed GEP’s “caped crusader cleaning up dodgy GA” bull**** in its entirety which shocks me all the more taking into account my past business career which involved mingling with society’s worst and most hardened criminals at several California Department of Corrections prisons and also dealing with hard-nosed New York lawyers where I learned to be suspicious of anything they said especially if it was something that could be helpful to me. That being said GEP completely got me with his sanctimonious do-gooder posts and campaigns but fortunately not for any money. Although I am ashamed that I participated in his threads where he tried to dress up regular Joes trying to run a normal business as crooks, with the exception of Weaver of course.

What does strike me as odd is that JetBlu’s wife could tell he was not a lawyer by overhearing a phone conversation, but did not smell a rat about him being ex SAS/military/James Bond when she actually met him face to face,. The reason I say this is a link to a newspaper story about a court hearing was posted on one of forms here a while back about GEP/Crenlin swicking some kids out of their money on a mail order RC deal. In the story was a picture of him shuffling his fat ass across the street with the posture of a wildebeest and a hair-do that would make Elton john blush, which when I think about it, knowing what I know about GEP now strikes me not of a guy with any military bearing/past but rather a guy that would be more likely to be slipping on a big birds dress and heels than donning khaki fatigues and steel toe cappers.

Please don’t think I am questioning any part of Jetblu’s story, I am most definitely not, I have nothing but sympathy for the horrendous stuff that he has had to go thru and will continue to endure, but I think it’s interesting that his ex, like myself and many others can be completely taken in by a f*&kwit like GEP against our better judgment and what we see in front of us, I wonder what makes us all so gullible, is it the herd mentality or is Crenlin a mastermind at grooming?

I want to be ready for the next chancing bastard that comes my way.

Halfbaked_Boy

9th May 2013, 08:26

piperboy84,

I think it's more down to the hope (derived from GA being a 'community') that no matter what arguments we have with others, there is mutual respect enough not to **** on each other to the extent this parasite has.

rennaps

9th May 2013, 08:58

Thanks Guys
It was good to hear that I was not the only one suckered in.
Makes me feel not so stupid, so thanks, but a valuable lesson has been learned.
I wish I could teach it to my young son. Young people are in dangerous waters from an earlier and earlier age. You try to keep them safe but with internet con artists like Crellin around, you can just hope.

Pace

9th May 2013, 11:16

Piperboy

Crellin not only conned Jetblu s wife he also infiltrated the very heart of pprune and gained Towers absolute confidence!
Towers is a clever man so don't underestimate the manipulative abilities of Crellin or his total lack of conscience in using people's suffering for his own ends

Pace

Evanelpus

9th May 2013, 12:34

(you couldn't make this up) He leaves the house with private and confidential information/Driving Licence/Passport details/my aircraft logbooks/maintenance records/laptop containing aircraft accounts, and off he departs into the moonlight with tens of thousands of pounds of my property.

I agree with a previous poster about going into the ins and outs of a cats a:mad:e on a anonymous Forum.

Surely, if he took "tens of thousands of pounds of my property" without your permission, then that must be theft? I suppose the only grey area is that your wife let him in willingly and probably allowed him to take the stuff away, bummer!

As to GEP duping us all, is everything he said about the Ginger one a load of old made up tosh or was any of it remotely true?

Pace

10th May 2013, 10:28

Evanplus

One
Difference between the Weaver saga and the Kevin Crellin saga is that Weaver remains with a blemish free record and no criminal record!
Kevin Crellin was found guilty in a court of law and was on probation!
I find it hard to understand why the Kevin Crellin saga is taking so long to come to a conclusion with the police ?

Pace

S-Works

10th May 2013, 12:01

I have a whole load of images of the damage to JetBlues aircraft taken by the Fire Brigade officer on the request of Crellin who apparently required them as the approved maintenance company in order to assess the repairs needed.........

Jetblu

10th May 2013, 16:54

421C & Evanelpus - Counsel already spoken with and I will refrain from posting sensitive information. Unfortunately/fortunately, people do turn to these forums for help, and I will remain to do the best I can. Thank you for wishes and advice. :ok:

Pace - all the threats and the ferry scams are true. Some of your info is not correct in your last post.

Bose-x - That is interesting. You are the 3rd person to report this. As we know, Crellin went under the disguise of a solicitor/SAS intelligence/CAA examiner/testpilot/policeman/insurance investigator/UAV specialist/IT specialist/aircraft owner/Mason/Aircraft maintenance company.

Believe it or not, he also called my hospital posing as a solicitor.

Pace

10th May 2013, 19:21

JetBlu

I stand to be corrected but Weaver has never faced a court of law under criminal charges neither has he been convicted?
He may have a court order to repay business debts but that is totally different!
Kevin Crellin was charged with Criminal activity was found guilty and was on probation!
If you know more and I am wrong feel free to clarify

Pace

Jetblu

10th May 2013, 21:24

Pace - No comment/relevancy. Apologies for complicating issues with my previous statement.

sooty3694

11th May 2013, 12:19

Just a thought: What possible motive did GEP/Crellin have for joining Pprune in the fist place?

I understand that he was previously ripping off RC modelers and see a remote connection, but was he a pilot? And further, as it was not him who started the Weaver thread, what motive did he have for acting as the Chief Investigating Officer? Surely his opportunity to effect a scam here only came about after Jetblu's tragic accident.

Jetblu

11th May 2013, 13:05

Sooty 3694 - Google is your friend.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=david%20henderson%20goldeneaglepilot&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.flyer.co.uk%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D1% 26t%3D80912&ei=h0GOUb7QEIfaPM6ugPAD&usg=AFQjCNFz9FawuzQCgRzMEGpCiYwnHNw2oA

Pace

11th May 2013, 19:24

Kevin Crellin is a fraudster, manipulative and a Liar! Not only did he take in forum members but he also penetrated the heart of Pprune taking in Towers who gave him absolute support and protection.
Ghengis was removed for identifying his approximate location and was ejected for doing so yet Kevin Crellin alias GEP held no official position in Pprune!
He held no position but wealded a lot if power!
I am sure that originally it was that self importance that attracted him to the forum as well as the game of manipulating people to his wishes.
Then being the fraudster he is he could not resist using situations to extract money / as simple as that! He has no morals. No conscience and will use other people's suffering for his own gain!
W a saint in comparison to this low life

I am sure people like that with no conscience are such good play actors in convincing others that they end up convincing themselves a trait both Crellin and W shared the difference being Crellin had no conscience and was power hungry over others

Pace

Jetblu

12th May 2013, 10:21

Pace I have asked in previous posts not to introduce A. nother previous poster, in fear of potentially muddying the waters.

You and I were both fooled, but unfortunately, ahead and behind us is a long and lustrous queue of similar and smarter people whom believed his every word.

I cannot go into great depth, but I can offer this. Both the CAA and AAIB
knew Crellin from the outset. They also knew his geographic location. Think about it. Admittedly, the insurance company were greatly shocked when they discovered that David Henderson was Kevin Crellin, as were many many other people, but as I said, some already knew.

The most frightening and terrifying experience for me during intensive care, having come out of the coma, was hearing the messages from visitors relayed to me via Crellin. Unable to respond due to the tracheostomy, my only communication was the blood pressure and heart rate monitor which went through the roof. I laid in that bed for weeks helplessly knowing that he had masterminded scams.