Special VFR & Cloud Base

[crosspoint]

Dear All,

I have just one short question: Is there anywhere specified minima for cloud base for Special VFR (SVFR). Minimal visibility is specified but there is nothing about cloud base.

I will appreciate any links to see some operational requirements in any country.

Thank you in advance.

[bedix84]

Clear of cloud in Europe. The pilot continues to be responsible for obstacle and terrain clearance:ok:

[crosspoint]

Thanks. I found some values in Internet that the cloud base should be 600ft or above but also found clear of clouds as you mentioned. However I just want to confirm that the pilot is not allowed to depart for example when there is low visibility procedure in operatation at the airport ot when he is not able to maintane ground contact?!

[bedix84]

To conduct a special VFR flight, the minimum visibility required by JAR-OPS 1 is: 1500 meters

[bedix84]

Crosspoint...:confused::confused:

A low visibility take-off (LVTO - Low Visibility Take-Off) is a takeoff from a runway made ​​with RVR less than 400 meters.

The low visibility take-offs are allowed only from airports, crews and equipment necessary to undertake operations in CAT II or CAT III, unless otherwise specified by the local airport authorities !!

Nothing to do with SVFR. You got it?

[Da-20 monkey]

JAR-OPS 1.465 VFR Operating minima
(See Appendix 1 to JAR–OPS
1.465)
(a) An operator shall ensure that:
(1) VFR flights are conducted in
accordance with the Visual Flight Rules and in
accordance with the Table in Appendix 1 to
JAR–OPS 1.465.
(2) Special VFR flights are not
commenced when the visibility is less than 3 km
and not otherwise conducted when the visibility
is less than 1·5 km.

.. So you will not get a clearance to take off.
However, ICAO requires only 1500 meters to commence SVFR or enter a CTR as SVFR.
Can't find a online reference, sorry.

American FAR's require 1 Stat Mile, which complies more or less with ICAO:

Electronic Code of Federal Regulations: (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=3efaad1b0a259d4e48f1150a34d1aa77&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10&idno=14#14:2.0.1.3.10.2.5.34)

[LeeP-PA28]

Are you planning on landing/departing from an airport under SVFR i.e. Channel Islands?

It is my understanding there (present IMC holder) that they will not clear you SVFR unless you have BKN800 or better, and 3000m Viz.

In Class D, I've had SVFR before at the viz minima (1500m, which was practically instrument flying) and at 800ft when I shot the ILS and broke away once visual, and continued to my destination in SVFR / VFR outside controlled airspace.

Obviously, you need to adhere to the clearance minima, which will likely be the biggest problem, and low flying over congested areas.

[mrmum]

ANO rule 6 exempts you from the 1000' / congested area section of rule 5 when on a SVFR clearance. Other parts of rule 5 still apply, 500' and land clear for example.

[dublinpilot]

In Ireland you require a minimum of 500ft cloud base.

At an aerodrome within a control zone, special VFR flights shall not be authorised to land,, take off,
depart, cross the control zone or operate locally therein if the ground visibility within the control zone is
less than 1500m and/or the reported cloud ceiling is less than 500 feet, except in the case of a helicopter
operating in accordance with Rule 3(2)(b) of these rules, along a prescribed route or within a prescribed
area where lower limits are prescribed.

Enr 1.2 for the rules.

[flybymike]

Are you planning on landing/departing from an airport under SVFR i.e. Channel Islands?

It is my understanding there (present IMC holder) that they will not clear you SVFR unless you have BKN800 or better, and 3000m Viz.


Worth mentioning that without an instrument qualification you require 10k vis for SVFR flight in CAS in the UK

[bookworm]

SVFR is always conducted under an ATC clearance, and in the UK MATS Part 1 requires that

Controllers shall not issue a Special VFR clearance to any aircraft, other than helicopters, for departure from an aerodrome within a control zone when the official meteorological report indicates that the visibility is 1800 m or less or the cloud ceiling is less than 600 feet.

The proposal for the Standard European Rules of the Air would require a ceiling of at least 600 ft and a ground vis of not less than 1500 m (800 m for helicopters).

Note this is ceiling (50% cover or more) not base.

[dublinpilot]

Worth mentioning that without an instrument qualification you require 10k vis for SVFR flight in CAS in the UK

Worth mentioning that you only need the 10k vis it if you hold a UK licence. Non UK licence holders don't have any such restriction.

[flybymike]

The luck of the Irish again.;)

[dublinpilot]

The Irish aren't feeling that lucky these days ;)

Sir would would you have a few hundred billion to spare please, or any loose change?

[soay]

Give that man another billion, for knowing the difference between lose and loose! ;)

[flybymike]

Rubbish, such knowledge requires that he be banned from Pprune.

[Duchess_Driver]

Worth mentioning that you only need the 10k vis it if you hold a UK licence. Non UK licence holders don't have any such restriction.

Are you sure.... I was always under the impression that the rules of the land in which you fly overrule the rules of the licence you're flying on if they are more restrictive!

Discuss!

DD

[dublinpilot]

Are you sure.... I was always under the impression that the rules of the land in which you fly overrule the rules of the licence you're flying on if they are more restrictive!

Discuss!

DD

That's quite true. Now what are the rules of the land in the UK? ;)

UK AIP Entry ENR 1.2 contains them, but you won't find any reference to 10KM viz in it, because the 'rules of the land' in the UK don't include any such restriction.

The 10km restriction is a restriction placed on certain licence holders only, and not a general one. My Irish licence doesn't hold any such restriction, and neither do any other European ones that I'm aware of except some of those in the UK.

[Duchess_Driver]

CAP 393 The Air Navigation Order...

Section 1 Page 190
SECTION 2

JAR-FCL Licences
SUB-SECTION 1

Aeroplane pilots
Private Pilot Licence (Aeroplane)

Minimum age – 17 years

Maximum period of validity – 5 years

Privileges and conditions:
(1) Subject to paragraph (4) and to any conditions specified for the licence, the privileges of the holder of a Private Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) are to act, but not for remuneration, as pilot in command or co-pilot of any aeroplane specified in a class or type rating included in Part XII of the
licence flying on non-revenue flights.
(2) The licence is subject to the conditions and restrictions specified in paragraph 1.175 of Section 1 of JAR–FCL 1.
(3) The holder may not—
(a) unless the licence includes an instrument rating (aeroplane) or an instrument meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes), fly as pilot in command of such an aeroplane—
(i) on a flight outside controlled airspace when the flight visibility is less than three km;
(ii) on a special VFR flight in a control zone in a flight visibility of less than 10 km except on a route or in an aerodrome traffic zone notified for the purpose of this subparagraph;
or
(iii) out of sight of the surface;
(b) unless the licence includes an instrument...

Sorry, must have mis-understood these rules then. ;)

Where does it say UK issued JAR-FCL Compliant Private Pilot Licence? Is there a 'trump card' somewhere? A PPL is that, regardless of state of issue.

[Pull what]

Controllers shall not issue a Special VFR clearance to any aircraft, other than helicopters, for departure from an aerodrome within a control zone when the official meteorological report indicates that the visibility is 1800 m or less or the cloud ceiling is less than 600 feet.

Always had that restriction, even for lucky Irish pilots who havent read the ANO

[dublinpilot]

DD,

The element that you quote relates to licences issued under the ANO. It has no effect whatsoever on licences issued under any other leglisation, eg Irish, French or American leglisation. How could it.

dp

[dublinpilot]

Always had that restriction, even for lucky Irish pilots who havent read the ANO

Pull What, I'm not sure what you mean? DD was refering to a 10km restriction, which isn't in your quote. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make or what exactly you are trying to say.

dp

[Duchess_Driver]

You are correct that the UK legislation cannot apply to other states licences and I never said that it could. What I did say is that it restricts PPL holders with no IF rating to 10Km vis for a SVFR clearence and therefore (should) restrict any other PPL regardless of state of issue of their licence.

What you are implying is that the UK government is restricting PPL holders issued under their authority but allowing an Irish / French / American etc PPL holder into that same airspace without such a restriction. Not a very satisfactory state of affairs!

Again, I stand by my understanding, that if the privilages and rules of the state in which the flight is being conducted are more restrictive than those of the state of issue of the licence of the pilot conducting that flight then the laws of the land take precedence.

Simply my interpretaion of the situation.

[bookworm]

Duchess_Driver

Schedule 7 of the ANO is applicable only via Art 64 of the ANO, which sets out the conditions for the issue of licences and ratings by the UK CAA. It does not (and cannot under the Chicago Convention) restrict the privileges of licences compliant with ICAO Annex 1 issued by another contracting state.