Skills test advice

[aerofoil1]

Good morning all
I have my skills test booked for this Sunday and need some advice
Like most other students about to take the test I too am a little bit nervous not so much on the general handling side but the nav
I've been told to plan from uttoxeter to wrexham and then down to Hereford a fair old run!! A diversion on the second leg I believe
I've never flown this route before so im going to have to use all my nav skills!
After all this is what the examiner wants right ?
I'm thinking about using m6 Hilton park services as a way point but before I get there I'll be going into shawbury AIAA
So are they likely to give me a zone transit? I've never flown into this airspace before i think my examiner wants me to call them and get appropriate clearance as I can't see him asking me to go around and dog leg it!!
The next bit down to Hereford takes me over high ground with various rivers small villages and so on
I'm planning to fly it at 3,000ft both legs
To me the route looks difficult so I don't want to mess it up ie get lost off track!!
Any advice please thanks

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

Hi Aerofoil1,

Good luck with your skills test, your instructor wouldn’t have put you forward for it unless confident that you will pass.

As you will recall from that exciting subject Air Law, the AIAA* is a sort of warning, rather than a control zone that requires a clearance. If available, getting a Basic or Traffic service from Shawbury LARS would let you know what is going on in the area, as well as potential help if you became uncertain of your position. I suspect that any Examiner will counter negative brownie points for getting lost with positive ones for getting help to relocate yourself.

I’ve not flown much in that area, but if I’m going somewhere new with ‘interesting’ topography I might have a look at it on the Google Earth / Satellite View / whatever 3D representation. Some times a possible visual reference that looks good on a map is hidden behind a hill. You can ‘fly’ the route on the PC so have a feel for the big bits that might get in the way. Usual caveat, the representation is simplified and some clown may have built a wind farm on top of a hill since the Google map was made…

All the best for Sunday. At present the synoptic chart is showing the remnants of a front dissipating over that area on a lightish southerly breeze.

Safe Flying,
Richard W.


*Areas of Intense Aerial Activity (AIAA)
Areas of Intense Aerial Activity (AIAA) are areas situated in Class G airspace below FL195 and have been denoted in UK military and civilian Aeronautical Information Publications (AIPs) and act as a signpost on aeronautical charts. These areas have no formal reserved status and afford the aircraft operating within the published area no additional protection. These areas are listed as airspace within which the intensity, type of activity and potential interaction of civil and/or military flying is exceptionally high or where aircraft, either signally or in combination with others, regularly participate in unusual manoeuvres.

[aerofoil1]

It's been a while since I've read air law! For some reason I thought that was a control zone must be a blonde moment yes I've got google earth and flight sim that's going to help fingers crossed for cAvok and light winds ! Thanks whiskey

[BackPacker]

It's been a while since I've read air law!

This might be a good moment to quickly skim through all your books again, because the exam will include an oral component and since your route takes you through an AIAA, the examiner may want to question you on this specifically.

But this might also be a good moment to get familiar with something called the AIP, where to find an up-to-date copy for each country and its structure. An AIAA is something that's UK specific (although other countries may have the same concept under a different name) and the details/procedures surrounding an AIAA are detailed in the UK AIP.

In this particular case, the ENR 1.1 section of the UK AIP has this to say:

2.2 Area of Intense Air Activity (AIAA) - Airspace within which the intensity of civil and/or military flying is exceptionally high or
where aircraft, either singly or in combination with others, regularly participate in unusual manoeuvres.
2.2.1 Intense civil and/or military air activity takes place within the areas listed in ENR 5.2. Pilots of non-participating aircraft who
are unable to avoid AIAAs are to keep a good lookout and are strongly advised to make use of a radar service if available; these areas
are depicted at ENR 6-5-1-2.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Two things:

(1) Do everything exactly as you did with your instructor.

(2) Don't expect to get anywhere near your planned destination. You'll be diverted part way, and then almost certainly go into general handling.

(3) Try and plan routes that include really clear waypoints (big distinctive towns / motorway or river crossings), and if possible legs that run along reliable line features. It's all part of the game - make life easy for yourself.

G

[Whopity]

Aerofoil1,

I am slightly alarmed by your postI've been told to plan from uttoxeter to wrexham and then down to Hereford a fair old run!!It is now Wednesday and your test is scheduled for Sunday. Examiners are advised not to give the candidate the route more than 2 hours before the flight. This is to see if you can plan the flight in a realistic time scale and to prevent people asking around for advice and possibly even going out and flying the route. The Examiner will brief you prior to the test on exactly what he wants you to do, so don't go asking other people. You should have read CAA Standards Doc 19 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/Standards%20Documents_srg_fcl_19_A%20v6_.pdf) before you meet the Examiner. Have you done so? The route you plan should be triangular, finishing up back at the start point so that you can produce a fuel plan, it is not open ended as you imply. You appear to be starting from either Tatenhill or Derby.
I wish you all the best and hope the examiner doesn't do anything else non standard.

[aerofoil1]

Whopity
I have read the caa doc not word for word but have a clear picture of what I will be expecting to do
I didn't know that the examiner is advised not to give candidates the route but even if he didn't do this I'm more than confident of doing all the pre flight planning
Ive merely asked for advice from people who have been through it all not asking "how do I pass the skills test" just a couple of things I was unsure of
After all this is a website for getting information isn't it? What's wrong with that!

[piperarcher]

I cant comment on your area as I don't know it well enough, but I did do my skills test about 5 years ago and these are my tips:

1)Study every inch of your route and try and remember or highlight as many features or potential gotchas as you can (gliding sites, danger areas, disused airfields, VRP's, MATZ, airspace changes etc). On my test I was asked to do a diversion, but (and of course my examiner knew this) my new route went straight through a local well known active gliding site. Although I wasn't required to route around it, or even speak to them on the radio, I just flew straight through it with no extra visual checking. The examiner asked me what I thought about the glider site I had just flown through, and it was obvious from my rubbish answer that I had not seen it on the map, nor on the ground either. I wish I had thought about some of these 'gotchas' on my pre-flight planning.

2) Note operational times of zones and services. On my mock test, which was on a Friday, my route went through a MATZ, who I duly contacted well ahead of requiring a penetration, and permission was duly granted. My real test was on a Saturday and that same MATZ was not operational, so no-one replied to my very nervous calls asking for a MATZ penetration. As I got closer, I was confused, and did an impromptu diversion to my next waypoint because I hadn't got approval to enter'. In hindsight I could have just gone through the MATZ and made some blind transmissions, or just gone over the top of the zone.

These two items made me realise that the examiner needs to see that you know what's on your map, you don't just plough through potentially dangerous areas, and you can think laterally about your options while flying. Needless to say, I only got a partial pass :*, and had to the Nav bit again. In hindsight I would say yes it was a poor planning on my part and a lack of experience with MATZ's at the time, and it was a lot to do with nerves. But, what I was doing was just being a pilot, and not a very good navigator.

Of course, once you have your PPL, you hopefully continue to improve and pick up new experiences, and you can adapt your flight and safety planning and equipment use (GPS) to suit your own style.

Good luck :ok:

[Pull what]

Dont take any notice AF-just remember what you learned on Human Performance & Limitations! Some on here dont quite understand the connection with asking for help and instruction!

First of all your routing looks questionable. Are you sure you mean Hilton Park Services, from Uttox to Wrexham you are closer to Stafford or Keele services?

Have a look at Map of Services on the M6 - Motorway Services Online (http://motorwayservicesonline.co.uk/Map:M6)

Would I teach the use of any motorway services as a waypoint-no. The reason being most look the same but I would use it as a cross check for another waypoint. I would route Uttox -Stone- Wrexham

[rn750]

Watch the Safety altitudes in that part of the country.. and if the weather gets bad or looks bad ahead, don't be afraid to show good airmanship/decision making and say I am not comfortable carrying on on this route with the weather ahead. I plan to do XYZ.

He may say its OK carry on, or let you follow your plan. Either way it shows you are capable of making weather related decisions.
Pressonitis causes a lot of accidents.

Also you know you are going to be diverted so think through what actions you are going to take when it happens. Estimate bearing, turn on to new safe heading then line on a chart better estimate bearing and distance (end of thumb is 10nm). Refine heading, work out time on leg and look for waypoints en-route. You can then plan comms etc. Remember Aviate, Navigate, Communicate..

Don't forget your FREDA checks and finally, keep thinking what field could I get into if the engine failed. (because it will at some point in the day!!).

Try and enjoy it, relax and don't get flustered if you do something wrong.
Good Luck
Adie

[Pull what]

It appears from your statement about zone transitting that you may be confused about Shawbury. You need to understand the LARS service, the AIAA, the MATZ and the ATZ within the MATZ.

Start by looking at Safety Sense Leaflet 08 Air Traffic Services Outside Controlled Airspace-(amazing how very few instructors ever refer their students to these useful publications) List of Safety Sense Leaflets | Publications | CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=list&type=sercat&id=21)

Look at number 28 too

Look at this AIC(you should be familiar with all AICs by now) for MATZ
AIC: Y 038/2011
19-MAY-2011
Operational
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-DD323E11C7806B56C8B4104210BB4235/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/AIC/Y/038-2011/EG_Circ_2011_Y_038_en_2011-05-19.pdf

If you want to find out whats going on on Sunday and give them some advance warning PM me and I will give the D - SATCOs details

You should also need to do some homework & have info with you in case of a diversion to Sleap, H Green or Shobdon which are around your route. You do not need to plan (draw on map) a triangle cross country but you do need to understand the range and endurance of the aircraft with the fuel you will take off with so that if you were given a diversionary airfield you could work out if it was within the safe range of the aircraft allowing for contingencies and arrival with the minmum fuel on board.

As I think I know who is doing your test- I will tell you not to worry at all he is very relaxed and so should you be- Good Luck!

[Pull what]

Watch the Safety altitudes in that part of the country

Watch safety altitude always when flying- meeting a mast can be as unpleasant as meeting a mountain!

[aerofoil1]

Thanks aid
That's put my mind at ease I'm looking forward to it just want to get everything right ! I will probably route stone instead if the services I find there a pain to spot sometimes ad Hilton park is surrounded by trees thanks fir everyone's advice hoping fir good weather now!

[Whopity]

The Examiner will have carefully chosen a route to see how the candidate copes with CAS and other hazards on route. The turning points given by the examiner are the waypoints and you should plan to fly from one to the other. If that involves penetrating CAS he will expect you to obtain a clearance. If it involves avoiding a hazard then he will expect to see you do it in a logical manner and regain track once clear. He will not expect you to add your own waypoints to avoid the obstacles he has carefully chosen.

[thing]

Hi matey, did my skills test in July. Best advice is don't worry, I was just the same as you, fretting over every detail. Basically as long as you don't kill the examiner you will be OK.

You'll get a diversion on the second nav leg, probably to a disused airfield or some pokey little GA place, your seven mile thumb and a rough estimate of heading bringing any wind into account will do, you'll find it. Then you'll have the general handling and then rtb for the usual circuits. It's nothing you haven't done and when you've passed on Sunday (weather depending of course) you'll be posting 'I don't know what I was worried about' but good luck anyway.

[aerofoil1]

Thing
Thanks
I am looking forward to it more now especially from receiving some valuable advice from this forum I'm grateful for everyone Input it's taken 3 long years to get this far I've sacrificed a lot of time and money and at times thought it would never happen! I will be praying to the allmighty on sat night fir suitable weather!

[foxmoth]

your seven mile thumb

Think you must have a short thumb:}

[thing]

Mine is precisely seven miles I'll have you know sir, I had it specially calibrated by shaving a few mill of flesh off.

[foxmoth]

SAT (Standard Aviation Thumb) when I was taught in the RN was always 10nm (for a half mil chart), mine is slightly short at 9 so I would have thought 7 a bit on the short side - might also be what point of your thumb you are measuring to -as long as you know what distance your own thumb is that is the main thing, though 9-10nm is good as that is near enough 6 mins still air in many training aircraft.:8

[rich_g85]

Hi aerofoil, I'm in almost exactly the same position - just a week behind you as my skill test is a week on Monday. I too have taken 3 years to get myself to this point, it's cost a lot of money and a lot of time and effort. It's also been great fun. As some of the others have said, and from what I've read in previous threads - as long as you fly exactly the way you've been taught, with good regard to safety, airmanship, navigation and 'captaincy' (if that's a word) then you can't fail. And don't think of it as a test, think of it more of an opportunity to show the examiner how good a pilot you are. Do let us know how you get on.

[derekl29]

I was taught a couple of quick tips for the diversion leg;

Firstly, you dont have to start the diversion immediately. When I was asked to divert to X, I nominated to start the diversion route from the big town I could see a couple of minutes straight in front of me on my current heading. That gave me a couple of minutes to plan the diversion heading and draw it on the map before I turned onto the heading and started flying it;

And, as an alternative to the "standard thumb", I had drawn out a scale on the back of my PA38 checklist showing minutes of flying time at 90kts, and measured it against the line on my map.

I then nominated my heading and told my examiner how long I would need to stay on the heading for, doing a bit of ready reckoning for how much my groundspeed and track would be affected by the wind

good luck

[aerofoil1]

Will do rich
Let me know how your test goes also

[BackPacker]

I then nominated my heading and told my examiner how long I would need to stay on the heading for, doing a bit of ready reckoning for how much my groundspeed and track would be affected by the wind

The objective of the diversion is not to get there quick, but to get there at all. Your tip on starting the diversion at a well-known landmark is a good one, but there is no requirement to do a dead-reckoning leg after that. You can also feature-crawl if you want to (otherwise known as IFR: I follow roads, railways, rivers, ...) even if that means a longer route.

And if you are already overhead a well-known landmark, there is no shame in orbiting there for a few minutes until you've got it all worked out.

Do keep a good lookout though.

[benppl]

Mine is on Monday, too.

Last one was canceled due to the weather. Very annoying but nothing you can do I guess.

I started learning in July 2011 and have loved every minute since.

[aerofoil1]

Morning all
Just to let everyone know last Sunday didnt go ahead low cloud and fog so had to cancel re booked for this Sunday but not hopeful ad the forcast looks unsettled doh not another week
Thanks tk everyone who commented with advice

[pitofrost]

In terms of the handling side I booked a short hour with my instructor on the morning and did a sort of mock of the handling. Because I was nervous flew like a ham fisted baboon that had had had a couple of drinks, but we did each exercise three of four times. Then, when I had the test itself, because I had already been through the nerves I was almost Yeagerish (well competent...). I thought it was well worth the extra hour of flight time.

[aerofoil1]

frost
sounds like a good plan im not all that nervous but its a test and theres no getting away from that
its booked for tommorow but looks like ill have to cancel thanks to the high winds forcast tommorow
right across the runway!!typical so close yet so far away:\:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Big Pistons Forever]

frost
sounds like a good plan im not all that nervous but its a test and theres no getting away from that
its booked for tommorow but looks like ill have to cancel thanks to the high winds forcast tommorow
right across the runway!!typical so close yet so far away:\:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Reminds me of my CPL flight test The day before my test I saw my neighbor start to get a hose out to water his lawn. I told him not to worry I had booked a flight test so it was going to rain. But the forecast said it was going to be sunny tomorrow, he said, and went ahead with watering, which of course turned out to be totally unnecessary :ugh:

[Rabbs]

"You can also feature-crawl if you want to (otherwise known as IFR: I follow roads, railways, rivers, ...) even if that means a longer route."

This is a good piece of advice - on my skills test I spent 5 minutes working out the route finally told the instructor what I was doing and he said "Yes all looks very good, now why dont you just follow that railway line it takes you straight there..."

Good luck anyway - the main thing is try to enjoy it - it's the best feeling when you pass.

Last piece of advice is dont worry if you mess something up half way through, just gather your thoughts and show good airmanship. Providing it wasnt dangerous there is very good chance that you will still get the pass. They are also looking to see how you handle things if something goes wrong..

[aerofoil1]

I guess I'm ready as I'll ever be fingers crossed I'll post back on here if it goes ahead tommorow thanks again for everyone's help and advice !

[aerofoil1]

hi all
just to let everyone know the test went ahead today albeit breezy conditions!and ive passed it
so pleased today the examiner was super calm and re assuring cant believe its all done now after 3 years and tonnes of cancelled lessons!!
thank you again to everyone for putting my mind at rest
:ok::ok::ok::ok:

[neckache]

Well done:ok:

Its a load off your shoulders now I bet, it was for me!

I passed about 3 months ago, get that form and your money sent mate!

Its nice to return home from work and see a nice brown licence fall out of an envelope ;)

Nice one!!

[Kevin31]

Great job well done! I bet it feels amazing doesn't it? So when is your first flight as a ppl?

Will you be doing a write up of your skills test please?

Kev

[aerofoil1]

for anyone who is interested here is a brief write up of the days events ill try and keep it fairly short as its not my auto biography!
ok so today is the planned test
checked the weather and not 100% its suitable as the wind is gusting a phone call to my examiner to give my opinion.
he agrees its a blustery but the wind is almost on the runway only 10degrees crosswind so its a case of lets give it a go!
i was a bit nervous understandably but also relaxed because ive studied none stop over the last 2weeks just wanted to get it done and passed
after the planning brief its off we go short take off due to the 25kts of headwind!almost VTOL !
set course overhead Uttox all looking good next stone then Nantwich and finally Wreham.
i was expecting something to go wrong with the nav work but actually nothing did i arrived a little early over the planned towns but apart from that all looking good!
then we tracked the TNT VOR which was straightforward (practiced on flight sim so that helped) overhead Leek time for the diversion to Hixon Disused worked it all out and gave an ETA Hixon turned up bang on the nose by now i was feeling quite relaxed as everything i did worked out correctly so i must have been doing something write, either that or i was using the force!!
time for the handling manuovers by now my stomach was killing i had no breakfast and it was bumpy up the there
i didnt need to worry as they were all fine
i will say that conditions were not exactly great for the skills test but it was do able and the landing jesus we were getting blown about everywhere but i got it down ok
so there you have it 3 years 7 exams and £12,000 of hard earned money paid off,of which couldnt have been done without the help of my girlfriend supporting me
next thing will prob be a conversion to a PA28 so can take my family up with me then IR if finances permit after xmas
sorry for waffling on but has been a great day today !!:ok::ok:

[aerofoil1]

neckache
yes its a big relief now thought the day would never come hasnt sunk in fully yet!

[aerofoil1]

yes
feels great kevin!!

[Pull what]

aerofoil1 (http://www.pprune.org/members/163971-aerofoil1)
Excellent well done-just two more hurdles now-the CAA and the big learning curve, this is where learning and flying really start- best wishes and stay safe

[thing]

Well done captain!

[aerofoil1]

do you ever get over the CAA hurdle!!
i think your right pull
all my learning starts now big weight off my shoulders !

[Pull what]

do you ever get over the CAA hurdle!!

I never have-if you cant beat them join them- i know a lot that have

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

Congratulations on the pass, on what looks to have been a rather ‘sporting’ day. Now the fun, and the learning, really starts. Enjoy your flying, you have earned it.

At a hundred hours you think you know it all.
At five hundred hours you know you know it all.
At five thousand hours you know you’ll never know it all.

Safe Flying,
Richard W.

[Big Pistons Forever]

My PPL skills test was October 27 1978, but I still remember the excitement when the examiner said "congratulations you are now a private pilot" :ok:

Now the fun begins, Enjoy !

[24Carrot]

congratulations you are now a private pilot

He was polite!

My rotary examiner said: "OK, you just went from being a good student to a p*ss awful PPL".

Not that I minded in the least.:)

Congrats to aerofoil1!:ok:

[aerofoil1]

thanks guys!!
heres to many safe and enjoyable sorties! ill start learning now!!

[Pistol2208]

Congratulations, I also had my (successful) test earlier this week, and around the same area as yourself, derby-Wolverhampton-Crewe-TNT.

I was due to go up this morning but it was just too gusty, so to have your test
in today's conditions must have been some challenge and a well deserved pass :ok: congratulations.

The application is going in the post tomorrow, fingers crossed for Xmas eh!

[aerofoil1]

Well done to your also pistol!
Was a fair challenge yesterday with the wind
Did you pass at derby then ? What u plan on doing next?

[thing]

Congrats to Captain Pistol as well!

[Pistol2208]

Yes based at derby, what about yourself. I've been learning in a 152 (for sometime now)and want to get used the club 172, hopefully this Sunday.

Supposed to also be going on first solo since passing tomorrow morning but looks like the wind will put a stop to that. For the time being just going to get used to flying alone and then taking some friends and family up. Possibly even a spot of night flying.

Do you have any plans at the moment? And have you managed to get the application off, mine went thismorning. Hoping to get it back before Xmas :rolleyes:

[aerofoil1]

Pistol
My 1st lesson was at derby and most of my training was done there including 1st solo never forget that day pulled off the smoothest landing ever I was planning on getting it down in one piece
So that was a bonus!
Am sending off the application on Friday hopefully get it back before Xmas although I'm nor planning to fly until after Xmas anyway gave kids presents to buy!
Then just take my friends and family get some experience visit as many airfields as possible! If could get sponsorship I'd like my cpl
Watch the trees at derby on 23 ! Always get your attention is a good club thou
Will prob see u around sometime
Again congrats !

[ahmed ali]

hi friends , my cousin is holding a philippines CPL with mutli and IR ,,he has just reached London ,,, can any one help me out to advice him ,,wt should be the next step to convert his philippines CPL to UK standrad ...

[ahmed ali]

hi friends , my cousin is holding a philippines CPL with mutli and IR ,,he has just reached London ,,, can any one help me out to advice him ,,wt should be the next step to convert his philippines CPL to UK standrad .......

thanks