Gliding/Motorgliding/Microlighting

[anyiodil]

Hi all,

Need advice on this;

Which of these licences/ratings can be achieved in the least possible time and cost

1) Bronze badge with cross country endorsements
2) NPPL SLMG
3) NPPL Microlight

Which of these is achievable with four weeks of intensive training (2 slots of two weeks in the spring/summer)?

The ICAO equivalence of the first two when backed by an appropriate medical means they have the edge for me, but i am really interested in what is cost effective and possible.

My aim is to fly for fun and in as many places (countries?) as possible.

What are your thoughts? Your advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[thing]

You certainly won't get a bronze gliding badge and a cross country endorsement in 4 weeks. Don't know about the other two, but it's all down to weather, instructor availability and aircraft serviceability. You can't just pitch up with a wallet full of dosh and go for it, there are exams to do etc. I'm not saying it's not possible but you would have to have all the planets in the correct alignment.

I would do a little more reading on the requirements for the licenses you mention.

Edit: Just had a look at my gliding logbook, I finished my bronze on my 280th flight and my X country conversion on my 321st and I tend to like to get things done. Bearing in mind most gliding clubs will do courses where you do three or six launches a day if the weather is right you can do the maths.

[Genghis the Engineer]

These are all UK only qualifications, not ICAO compliant.

The quickest and easiest to do is probably the NPPL(M), followed by the NPPL(SLMG) which is do-able but there are relatively few schools - doing a glider qualification in a short period of time is probably impossible. It is too weather dependent and the glider training environment is based upon regular hobbyist attendance, not intensive training.

There are UK schools outside of the UK where you can do the NPPL(M) -look at British Microlight Aircraft Association,Home (http://www.bmaa.org) for information, I don't think that there are NPPL(SLMG) schools outside of the UK.

G

[thing]

A bronze badge with x country endorsement and 5 hours currency in the last year would get you a BGL licence though. Is that just EASA wide or ICAO compliant? Can't remember now.

[GeeWhizz]

Of course there is the option of a JAR/EASA PPL. Cost will be greater, but there are probably more flying days in the UK on a PPL course; there are many places offering intense courses too. Just a thought.

[anyiodil]

Thanks for all your responses - seems the microlight option would be the best for me. I can then add the SLMG to the NPPL Microlight with additional training.
if Ifollow that route, can I 'upgrade' to a PPL (TMG) later? What are the requirements?

Cheers.

[ifitaintboeing]

See LASORS C1.1, 1.2 and 'Credits for Previous Experience and Training' for full details.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_lts_LASORS%202010%20Bookmarked.pdf

Any previous flying experience gained in TMG aircraft (i.e. Vigilant) may be counted towards the 45 hour minima required for the grant of a JAR-FCL PPL(A) with TMG rating. However the specific requirements under JAR-FCL (25 hours dual instruction and 10 hours supervised solo-flight time) must be completed. Individuals who have already met the 45 hour experience requirement will be required to complete discretional flying training, at a Registered Facility or Approved FTO one crosscountry flight of at least 270km (150nm), during which full stop landings at two different aerodromes different from the aerodrome of departure shall be made, and pass the PPL(A) Skill Test with a CAA Authorised TMG Examiner. Individuals who then wish to obtain the SEP rating will be required to complete an SEP Class Rating Skill Test.

[znww5]

"My aim is to fly for fun and in as many places (countries?) as possible."

I'm probably being a bit dim here, but I don't see how these UK qualifications can help you. There's a new European licence due to appear next year (maybe) which is similar to the UK NPPL and allows flight within the EU, but neither will give you a licence which you could use anywhere - for example none of these would be recognised in the USA as far as I am aware.

If you want to fly in as many countires as possible, you need an internatioally recognised licence such as a UK Private Pilots Licence (soon to be issued by EASA) or its equivalent.

I would strongly suggest that you research the limitations of any licence before spending your cash as the rules vary from country to country.

[B4aeros]

SLMG licence first, definitely.

a) it will be cheaper & automatically come with a tailwheel rating
b) it's much easier to add a microlight rating to an SLMG licence than vice versa
c) come EASA (June 2012) your NPPL SLMG licence can be exchanged for an LAPL TMG licence to which you can add an SEP rating & ultimately upgrade to a full EASA PPL.

This place (http://www.motorgliderclub.co.uk/index.html) offers both SLMG & PPL training.

The microlight to PPL route is quite convoluted & will be completely impossible after June 2012.

[anyiodil]

Thanks for all the responses. I am really grateful. B4aeros, you say the microlight to PPL route will be closed after June 2012. How?

Realistically, how long will the SLMG course take if I do it intensively and study for the ground school beforehand?

Ultimately, will like to have a Europe-wide license (LAPL) as a minimum. A PPL will be magnificent, but the costs are simply prohibitive, Its difficult to justify the expenditure for recreational purposes anyway.

A soft landing will be a PPL (TMG) offering international flexibilty and cheaper than a PPL (A).

I am torn between microlighting (believe it can be used in several countries in Europe - with permission) and motor gliding. Still have up till spring to make my mind up though.

Really appreciate the advice I am gettting on this forum :D

[B4aeros]

Under the current CAA regulations SLMG/TMGs, SSEA/SEPs & microlights are all variations on a theme; a licence & experience in one can be credited towards the issue of a licence/rating in another with varying degrees of generosity.

Once the EASA rules start, SLMG/TMGs and most SSEA/SEPs become EASA aircraft and will, by April 2015, require the pilot to hold an EASA licence. Microlights will stay out of the EASA system & can be flown on an NPPL(M) but any microlight experience will not count towards the issue of an EASA licence. You could have 1,000+ hours on a high performance 3-axis microlight but if you wanted an EASA licence, you would still have to go through the full syllabus like any other newbie.

What I don't know is when the CAA will stop issuing an NPPL(SSEA) on the basis of an NPPL(M) + additional training & test. April 2015 will be the cutoff for turning an NPPL(SSEA) into an EASA LAPL(A) so you might have 3 years to go from microlight to EASA licence. OTOH the CAA might stop issuing NPPL(SSEA & SLMG) entirely after April (or July) 2012.

Try asking in the forum on the BMAA website (http://www.bmaa.org/). They will also be able to advise on using a microlight licence abroad - people have flown around the world in microlights.

How long it takes you to get an SLMG or microlight licence will depend on your aptitude. I would expect the average person to be able to do it in your 2x2 weeks timespan, unless you're unlucky with the weather.

[znww5]

I was about to say pretty much the same as B4aeros, were it not for the fact that he can type faster than me !

It looks to me as though either route will probably take the same mount of time and the same amount of money. On that basis the NPPL(SLMG) to EASA(TMG) route looks the more promising, as you have the option of upgrading when/if funds or interests allow.

By comparison, the microlight route seems as though it will be a bit of a dead end if you want to go further from the point of view of licencing. However it must be said that there are far more microlight schools, clubs and aircraft than there are SLMG/TMG facilities. It is also true that some pilots are 'downsizing' to microlights due to cost or because of the less rigourous medical requirements. Some of the modern microlights are very sophisticated and comfortably outperform the standard light aircraft.

Finally, doing the exams before the course is an excellent idea - it would also be wise to have passed an appropriate medical before spending all that cash on flying - presumably the medical for a Nigerian PPL would suffice.

I would suggest that you have a trial lesson in a microlight and an SLMG or light aircraft if you can - that should help you decide.

Best of luck :ok:

[XXPLOD]

I did the relatively simple excercise of upgrading a NPPL SSEA to a JAR PPL. Relatively easy as the exams are the same. But the paperwork excercise was a PITA. Plus re-doing your Qualifying Cross Country flight is an expensive excercise (tip - whichever route you take make sure your QXC is 150nm)

My advice for what it's worth is if you have any aspiration whatsoever to upgrade to a 'full' i.e. JAR/EASA PPL then simply do that from the word go. You then do the 7 ground exams once and they're done. You can then fly TMGs, microlights with straightforward differences training.

I called in to Hinton recently. Great place, very friendly. If cost is paramount then the TMG route to PPL can save money. In the real world, you need to think where you are actually going to fly from, i.e. what is available near to you? If it's a great TMG place like Hinton then the TMG route makes sense. Likewise, if it's a club airfield where you can rent a decent little C150 at good rates then clearly the PPL route may make more sense.

[Momoe]

PPL has it's advantages as the majority of the skillsets are transferable to gliding (especially SLMG) and to a lesser degree microlights.
With a limited time frame you need to be studying met, air law, radio, etc so that any theory exams are guaranteed passes.
FWIW I got a PPL on taildraggers in 3 weeks and 1 day, (would have been 3 weeks but the day of the GFT was unflyable), I've since converted to gliders and haven't landed out yet, haven't done done a >150nm cross-country either but I'm probably overly conscious of the fact that it hasn't got an engine!

[trailercollection]

or other low cost hobby aviation like trikes, ultralights etc. ?

[172510]

As you wish to fly abroad:
NPPL(SLMG) is a UK licence. You may not fly abroad with it as a rule.
As an exeption, you may, with a medical class2 and some paperwork turn it into an ICAO licence and fly a UK reg TMG abroad. But it's not the best route I would advise.
You may convert through a paperwork exercice and a LAPL medical your NPPL(SLMG) into a LAPL(S) with which you may fly EASA reg TMG's everywhere in EASA land, or with a class 2 into a SPL with which you may fly EASA reg TMG's everywhere in ICAO land

With a NPPL microlight, you may fly UK reg microlights in many countries, but it's on a country by country basis, with some paperwork involved (eg Belgium)
To fly a French reg microlight, you will need a French microlight licence, etc.

The less expensive, more fun (my opinion) and more time consuming way of flying is gliding.
If you learn in a sunny country and good instructors, in 2 weeks you may get solo. I don't have in mind the requirements for the EASA SPL, it might be achievable in 4 weeks. Anyway, everywhere I've been, you may fly gliders without a licence or badge, provided an instructor signs you off. Having a licence or badge is a sportsman goal, but not necessary to enjoy yourself in a glider.