Hourly Rates

[stitch_83]

Simple questions here chaps

If you are / were learning in the last 18 months in a 152 what was your hourly training rate (I'm not asking to name & shame schools - I'm just curious)

Also - as a PPL holder, what is your hourly rental rate for a 152?

Thanks chaps chapettes & chapesses

Stuart

[Genghis the Engineer]

If it's 2-seat Cessna comparisons...

Just been arranging to fly a C152 at Denham for something, £110/hr solo rental, I *think* £130/hr dual.

I do a little teaching at Billins at Cranfield, who charge £150/hr dual on a reasonable C150 or £125 solo hire.

Both include landings in that, both have inevitable club membership requirements.

G

[Ds3]

I pay £136 p/h dual on a Robin HR200. Solo I believe is £124 weekends, £121 week day.

They do also have a a 152 which is £131 dual, £109 solo weekend and £103 weekdays.

All rates are wet and include landing.

[thing]

Our 152 is £84 wet brakes off/on. I think it's another £25 for an instructor.

[JUST-local]

Per hour, charged Airbourne + 10 mins. No membership or joining fee for students just pay for what you fly.

Dual wet inc. Vat £137.50.

Solo wet inc. Vat £107.50.

Hour building wet inc. Vat £80.00.


Prices seem to vary quite a bit in the UK but from an operators point they seem cheap for flying lessons. The question I would ask myself is am I getting value for money and is it convenient.

:ok:

[pitofrost]

C152 This year is £145 dual and £125 solo (wet) - take off to Landing time plus 15 minutes (swings and roundabouts but sometimes you have to hold a lot longer). This includes landing fees at the home base and free sweets.

It is a bit more expensive than some but I like the long runway and nav aids as I'm not very brave. I also really like the company.

"Could I helpfully suggest that the posters who have given prices, but no location, perhaps edit their posts to give an airfield or operator? If you'd rather be vague, perhaps "a flying school somewhere near town X... Ghengis the Engineer" ?"

Cranfield - Billins Near town X - Milton Keynes and town ZZZ Bedford.

[Martyn Northall]

C-152 (Conington)

£132 p/h - dual
£97.50 p/h - solo

(Wet, based on datcom)

[WhiskyTangoFoxtrott]

C152 - wet

£150 solo
£165 dual

[FlyingSportsman]

C152

£155 Dual excluding landing fees

FS :ok:

[Mickey Kaye]

C-150 (Breighton)

£100 - solo
£120 - dual

No landing fees

[bingofuel]

I would love to see the comparison with rental costs on the USofA side of the pond?

[RTN11]

Can't get much cheaper than a 152, but some of the prices listed here are shocking. I'd never pay more than £140 dual all in, it's just not worth it when you can usually get a warrior or better for not much more. They're just so cramped for the longer navigation legs.

If you're just flying PPL for fun, get into microlights. The Ikarus C42 is much roomier than a 152, out performs it in every way, and average solo rate is about £70-£80/hr all in

[Genghis the Engineer]

Could I helpfully suggest that the posters who have given prices, but no location, perhaps edit their posts to give an airfield or operator? If you'd rather be vague, perhaps "a flying school somewhere near town X..." ?

G

[172driver]

I would love to see the comparison with rental costs on the USofA side of the pond?

Are you sure? It might ruin your day, but here goes:

Recently flew a 172 RG (fully equipped) around California. Hourly cost: USD 160.- wet. IOW just under 100 quid, wet. Oh, and before I forget, no landing fees...:E

No idea what a 152 would cost, but as Silvaire1 says, probably a bit over half of the above. Renting in the UK just makes no sense.

[Ultranomad]

Skytaxi (http://www.skytaxi.hu) in Hungary offers a C152 for €76 in winter / €89 in summer per hour wet for occasional rental, or €69 / €81 for time builders. They also offer C172 and C210 at correspondingly low prices.

[stitch_83]

Thanks for all the comments guys, keep em coming thick and fast

Genghis - excellent point - I should have specified that on my original post!

I was just curious of the prices, comparing them against what I've been charged for tuition and what I may be looking at for rental once I've qualified.

By the way can I just clarify, the "dual" prices are for tuition, not just for PPL holder + passenger? Bit of a noob question but thought I'd be clear

Plus, to add in, my dual tuition in Perth is approx £159 per hour plus £50 membership per year..... approx £799 for 5hrs

In September 2010 when I started training this was £1000 for a block of 10 hours...
:(


Thanks

[david viewing]

Don't forget that FBO's in the US list their rates net of tax, wheras most quoted here are inclusive of Vat. Sales taxes (around 8% in Az.) and credit card conversion fees can add to your bill, as can optional but neccessary insurance cover.

Also, some places you might visit will charge up to $7 for gas (McCarran) and your FBO will likely re-imburse you at a lower rate, so check the gas prices on Avweb before you depart!

Despite this, and as a generality, flying in US is incomparably cheaper than here. Rates are often negotiable as well if you buy a block of time for touring and daily minimums can be waived.

[dont overfil]

My favourite school in Florida has just upped its prices by $20 per hour after 4 years of stability. $156ph-$165ph on tacho time for a C172SP and as David says plus tax. Cheaper than most in the UK but not the huge bargain it used to be.

Once you have your PPL you will find aircraft to rent at lower rates than you are seeing advertised. Even your present school will have deals available on certain aircraft. Recently you could have rented a Tomahawk for about £85 at your school at Perth.
D.O.

[stitch_83]

I was informed of a good deal on a Tomahawk. That and VGS tugs are hopefully going to be my main source of hours.

Thanks - keep em coming!
Stuart

[xrayalpha]

Late (un)lamented Cumbernauld Flight Centre was £160 per hour plus VAT plus landing fees (£11 a go) for lessons. And it still went out of business.

Edinburgh Flying Club is £190 dual and £170 solo, plus landing fees.

At Strathaven, we are £125 dual in a C42 microlight.

[Lew747]

Does anybody know of anywhere or anyone renting aircraft for <£100 an hour in the south-east region? (Kent)

Me and a friend are desperate to be able to find aircraft without having to invest a large sum of money for a share, hence preferably a cheap hourly rate or a non-equity group.

My club charges about £145 all in for a C152...Solo private hire! About £165 dual inc instructor. After reading some of the posts in this thread I feel like i'm getting ripped off!

Many thanks! :)

[Rod1]

The average solo hire UK price based on the above numbers is £131.

If you compare the running cost of a mid range Jodel which has similar performance, based on a 1/5 share, the running costs equate to about 6.5 hours flying time to break even!

Assuming a share price of £2500, if you fly 35 hours in the first year you have paid the capital cost of the share and the running costs, leaving you to save around £2500 per year thereafter!

Rod1

[OpenCirrus619]

Does anybody know of anywhere or anyone renting aircraft for <£100 an hour in the south-east region? (Kent)

Well if you're up to the challenge of getting checked out (I don't know if you still have to checkout in a Tiger before they'll let you fly one) there's always...
http://www.tigerclub.co.uk/images/displayteam2.jpg
at £65/hour wet.

Even better there's no increase for dual :}

See: Tiger Club (http://www.tigerclub.co.uk/)

OC619

[Genghis the Engineer]

Always interesting to compare a share versus renting.

Anything above about 30 hours per year, it's usually worth looking at syndicates anyhow. I have two 4-seater shares, one vintage, one very well equipped - both I'm paying on average well below most of the C152 prices quoted so far.

G

[stitch_83]

That's something this thread is teaching me Ghengis - I hope to make a serious financial "go" of this flying lark once I'm PPL'd

These Tiger things look rather nice!!! How does one get "checked" on them?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Another reason to own a share I'm unfortunately illustrating this evening.

I'm typing this in a budget hotel room 350 miles from home, where I'm stuck with my aeroplane (of which I own 1/20th) by bad weather. Hopefully I'll fly back in the morning.

In the meantime, I sent a text message to let somebody know where the aeroplane is - and that's it. No school is losing revenue, nobody's going to bill me for the aeroplane being away longer, nobody apart from possibly one syndicate member who might want it tomorrow cares about the lack of aeroplane back at base.

So my total pressure is to do the right thing for safety, and the total financial penalty is a cheap budget hotel room for the night and another day's parking.


Okay, there are downsides to ownership as well - occasionally difficult co-owners, and sometimes trouble selling your share when you want to move on. But it does work.

6 hours flying this week, including my monthly payment since it's the start of the month, will have cost me about £97/hr.

G

[Rod1]

Where are you stuck? You never know there might be a member of the forum next door…

Good luck getting back.

Rod1

[Genghis the Engineer]

Dundee!

I'll get back tomorrow I'm sure. In the meantime, it's quite a pleasant town to walk around at night, and I enjoyed my haggis supper - haven't had one of those for ages. Hard to get in Buckinghamshire.

G

[OpenCirrus619]

These Tiger things look rather nice!!! How does one get "checked" on them?

Give the Tiger Club (http://www.tigerclub.co.uk) a shout.

Unless you have a fair amount of tailwheel time the usual progression is (unless it's changed recently):

Cub checkout:
http://www.tigerclub.co.uk/images/G-lcub.jpg

Tiger checkout:
http://www.tigerclub.co.uk/images/G-ACDC_1.jpg

Onto the Turbs (Druine D31 Turbulent):
http://www.turbteam.com/The%20Turbulent/img4.jpg

OC619

[Timmy44]

Dundee!

I'll get back tomorrow I'm sure. In the meantime, it's quite a pleasant town to walk around at night, and I enjoyed my haggis supper - haven't had one of those for ages. Hard to get in Buckinghamshire.


Haha, As a long time lurker on here and new PPL student I'd have happily stood you a couple of pints, for a chance to talk flying - had I known you were six miles over the Tay! :O

[Genghis the Engineer]

Sorry about that - anyhow, glad to report that 3½ flying hours later, I'm now back at base. I'll let you know next I'm in sunny Dundee.

G

[stitch_83]

Hit me up as well Genghis - I'm only 20mins along the road!

OC - thanks for the info - sounds like a line I wouldn't mind getting into

[betterfromabove]

Jodels

To follow up on Rod1's post, I do indeed have such a Jodel share in a fantastic group (mostly engineers....) for sale if anyone is interested. Based west of London. PM me if interested.

Hourly rates are indeed of the order of £50 wet. So, yes, fly enough and you soon break even and without all the attendant club hassles.

Turbs

And yes, you do need to check out on the Tiger before being let loose on the Turbs at the TigerClub last time I was down there.

BFA

[Pilot.Lyons]

£125 weekend and £119 weekday peice for a cessna 152 midlands area

[silverknapper]

Just curious are most of these times brakes off/on?

I would find airborne +15mins hard to swallow personally, unless its at a major airport. Otherwise it's a rip off. I've only seen it at one school years back when I was doing my IR and it hurt then.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I know the school who do airborne + 15 minutes - that is very fair, since at that particular airport it seldom loses students money and occasionally saves them quite a bit compared to chock-to-chock

G

[justmaybe]

Everyone would like cheap flying. The reality is that in the UK the on-costs and overheads of providing the average 'spamcan' type aircraft for hire and/or training have escalated out of all proportion over the last three years. If you take the unit cost of fuel/oil/maintenance/insurance/engine rundown/hangarage/parking etc etc, you will see that perhaps £145 is not such a rip-off. Try buying a C152 and renting it out for less than £100 p/h. I would be keen to see your profits.

[thing]

Crikey you guys pay a lot! I'm not from this airfield but it's a local one to give you an idea of the prices up here. Lincoln Aero Club (http://lincolnaeroclub.co.uk/aircraft.html)

I was in Cambridge the other day and noticed something else rather odd too. Petrol at Sainsburys was 136.9 for unleaded, petrol at Sainsburys on the same day in Lincoln was 129.9.

[WhiskyTangoFoxtrott]

That's pretty good; they have a healthy list of partner airfields that waive landing fees too! Shame I'm down south.

[silverknapper]

Maybe it works time wise Ghengis, but surely 10 mins would be fair. Let's face it costs for the aircraft at the holding point are a lot less than airborne costs. That 15 minutes charge is a lot of profit, especially on short flights.

[Pilot.Lyons]

Hi pboyall,

Where do you get that price from in east mids?