Filming Flights.

[FlyingSportsman]

Being particularly handy with a camera and Sony Vegas, I enjoy filming a-lot.

Short of buying a bracket can anyone recommend a way to mount the camera in the cockpit of a 152? The tripod i have is quite a biggin ( pun intended for those from south london) and I would probably have to weight it to keep it still, adding perhaps another 5-6kg to the payload. Not mentioning securing the tripod behind the back seats, perhaps with bungee cords?

Ideally, want to able to use tomorrow so ordering a bracket now wouldn't be an option. I was looking for anyone that has 'made' their own bracket, and had a few tips or hints to help out?

Spoken to my instructor and he is fine with the idea as long as I can demonstrate that it will stay fixed during flight. Personally, i think you can achieve this with a few suction cups ( goodbye dad's GPS mount ) and some heavy duty tape?

Thanks guys,

FS :ok:

[IO540]

It depends on what kind of quality you are after.

If you want a cheap job, with prop shutter effects and plenty of distortion :) then any of the £100-£300 cameras commonly sold in pilot shops these days (GoPro etc etc) will do it... a bit of duct tape or a suction cup, etc :)

If you want a classy job then you need a reasonable quality camera, and a proper way of mounting it which does not transmit vibration.

You also need a clean scratch-free part of the window.

Plus avoidance of reflection from objects in the cockpit; may need dark clothing, etc.

I can't think of anything you could rig up for tomorrow, but here (http://s101.photobucket.com/albums/m74/peterh337/antivibration%20mount/) are some pics of a mount I have constructed and used very successfully with a forward-shooting camcorder. The four little anti-vib mounts came from this company (http://www.gelmec.co.uk/GelmecSoftSiliconeGelMounts.html), at about £15 each.

This method has the advantage of not requiring pilot interaction during the flight, but you need sufficient in-camera storage for the required flight duration or whatever.

Otherwise, with autopilot, or a co-pilot, and a camera with good motion stabilisation, you can get good enough handheld results e.g. this (http://vimeo.com/29735955). No antivib mounts are needed.

[FlyingSportsman]

I have this; Sanyo VPC-FH1EBK Full HD Dual Video - Black: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sanyo-VPC-FH1EBK-Full-Dual-Video/dp/B001SAFK4W)

Any ideas on how it will perform? Or how I could improve its performance?

FS :ok:

[SEP Flyer]

IO540, some great footage and a clever anti vibe mount for the camera! :D

FS - sounds as though your camera is more of a Prosumer size judging by the additional stabilising weights you mention - if so, and if it's too heavy for suction holder, I would get hold of a small, cheap, lightweight tripod (I use one when the vinten is a no go) with a removable plate, and fix it with magic arms and super clamps to the seat bases/tracks. (just seen your latest post - suction mount should be fine! :ok:)

One of my colleagues has worked with someone who has developed a small moveable gyromount which he tested on a Cessna 182 strut - here is his test film!

Cessna GY236 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w-L06DA_wQ)

[IO540]

Any ideas on how it will perform? Or how I could improve its performance?

Should be excellent :ok:

Especially if it really does full HD (1920 x 1080) video at 60P (non interlaced). Actually it might be 50P if it is a UK market model, but that is very good anyway.

You will fill up the 32GB (max) SD card fairly quickly - I guess it will be ~15-20GB per hour at max quality. I am suprised it doesn't support a bigger SD card.

BTW, I did do a test with just suction mounts (no silicone rubber antivibration spacers) but even the smallest amount of vibration messes up the image visibly. One could argue whether leaving the image stabilisation on or off is less bad. Also, single cup mounting causes the camera to move about. 3 cups should do it nicely, but forget about using the front window, which (on an SE aircraft) gets hammered by a very turbulent slipstream.

The GY236 looks interesting. What a daft website - full of Youtube videos and little product info. The image is also quite distorted.

[FlyingSportsman]

Luckily i do have an ultra-lightweight tripod which I used when i first started filming, and like you said with a removable plate! However, my larger Velbon tripod ( DV-7000 ? ) also has this removable plate.

I've planned two ways; one which im cracking on with now, which is literally just selotaped down, and I'm looking at ways to improve that now, and will post a picture shortly!

Other way is like you said, but I cant find the our stash of Sat Navs to steal the suction cups, so that can wait until later!

FS :ok:

[Whopity]

Gorillapod Video tripod £20 from Amazon (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Joby-GP10-Gorillapod-Video-Tripod/dp/B0042FZA1S/ref=sr_1_13?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1319731249&sr=1-13)

[SEP Flyer]

With a very wide angle camera, like the GOPro, image stability issues are substantially reduced (ie less noticeable) so a simple suction mount should be fine - in fact this one has been fitted to the side window of a 152 judging by the footage:

Tim's Solo Flight - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AMG0wB0lxA&feature=related)

Might just have to treat myself to one.....

[grafity]

Have a look at the gopro. There's some amazing videos made with this camera.

[percy prentice]

99 % of HD mini cameras suffer from rolling shutter which will bend the prop & under any vibration will turn the picture to a jelly consistancy. Suction mounts are not good on perspex & larger cameras & tripods are not a good idea as remember under G the weight becomes somewhat alarmingly increased. Just think of you having a bowling ball in the back if anything goes wrong. Whatever you do clamp it & make sure that the clamp will hold something at least 10 times the weight, CAA spec is 15 times. The 150 unfortunately does not have many points to clamp on
.

[Maoraigh1]

I gave upon a Canon HG10. I've used a Fuji Finepix and currently a Panasonic Lumix DMC-FT12 compact digital on Movie mode. Yesterday I was using a lightweight tripod set in my flightbag, which was strapped in ther RHS. This seems better than a home made bracket for vibration effects. If you have autofocus or autostabilisation, and the camera is shooting through the prop, you can get weird effects if the prop synchs with the camera sensors. I don't get the prop effect with any of the three, but the Canon stored to a hard disc, and was too sensitive to vibration.
Replace the Instructor in the RHS with a suitably secured flightbag.:E

[IO540]

99 % of HD mini cameras suffer from rolling shutter which will bend the prop

I think this topic came up here recently.

The only real solution I have found is a camera which has a manual shutter speed control. The G10 is the first camcorder I've had which has that, and 1/120 or slower gets rid of the prop. That Alps video was done at 1/120, and at 2400rpm it works just right. At 2300 or 2500 I need to use a slightly slower shutter speed, oddly enough.

Neutral density filters can help the cheap cameras to slow down their auto shutter and reduce prop effects but I have never been wholly successful with that.

Suction mounts are not good on perspex

Have you seen that link I posted to my suction mount pics? They work superbly on the TB20 windows. I have added a security "rope" however, so if the suckers gave way, the whole thing is not going to fall down onto something important.

I did one experiment which was a 2hr flight, resulting in an obviously mostly utterly boring video here (http://vimeo.com/29066711) which was filmed totally hands-off, using the suction mount. The image quality on that one is not good because I transcoded it (using Handbrake) using a 1megabit/sec average bitrate which is about 5x too low for Vimeo. (The soundtrack on that one is also badly shifted, over most of it).

For filming out of a C150 which obviously won't have an autopilot, I don't think a handheld camera is going to be easy. So it's a choice between brief handheld clips, and mounting a camera somewhere properly.

[FlyingSportsman]

I have resorted to this; I removed the fluid head of my tripod, is about 10cm high and very strong :)

I have circled wire around the fluid head, and used almost struts to secure it. The struts are attached to the wire ring around the fluid head and then connected (melted into :8 ) to suction cups which i will attach to the dashboard using super heavy duty tape. I will also tape the fluid to the dashboard as a safety precaution!

Overall, quite a successful day, did some functionality testing, doesn't come off and vibrates only slightly!

FS :ok:

[percy prentice]

Well done, don't forget to keep it away from the compass otherwise your flight may last longer than expected & you might run out of tape/memory :bored:. did you get intercom sound ?

[flybymike]

you can get good enough handheld results e.g. this.
A tad high on the approach again Hoskins...

[IO540]

Yeah; you'd need the mother of all speed brakes to get in there :)

[percy prentice]

I did one experiment which was a 2hr flight, resulting in an obviously mostly utterly boring video Sorry I agree & only managed a few minutes, but there was not a lot of vibration although large movement, the nose of the aircraft moved a lot around the picture almost as if you were hand holding it. I suppose there is always a trade off between wobbly or seemingly out of focus due to high frequency vibration

[IO540]

That Poitiers movie was a useful experiment as it was done with an earlier version of the mount (no pics I can find) where the rubber supports were much closer together - about the width of the camcorder itself. This enabled a lot of rotational movement, which is very visible.

The Mk2 mount (see earlier link to the pics of it) has the rubber supports further out, on the plywood sticks, and this much reduces the camera rotation. I need to do another movie... :)

I then realised why the expensive professional antivibration mounts mount the camera in a rigid frame, which is supported by some rubber mounts at the bottom and by some more at the top, inside another rigid frame, which you then fix as you wish. That symmetrical support ensures that any sideways movement (quite common in turbulence) does not result in a rotation of the camera. Pure straight-line sideways or up/down movement of the camera is invisible if the visual field contains distant objects only. Some of the pricey mounts get quite clever, like this (http://www.draganfly.com/uav-helicopter/draganflyer-x6/features/anti-vibration-camera-mount.php).

[mary meagher]

Hate to pour cold water on your enthusiasm, but. As you say mounting a camera is fine with your instructor, you are evidently new to flying. I prefer, as an instructor, that my students do not divide their attention. Filming while flying is not concentrating on flying, and as another poster has remarked, it can be boring to watch.

You only have to look at some of the offerings on U-tube to see how boring such films can be. Learn to fly very very well. Or get your instructor to fly while you do the filming. Not even professionals try doing both at once, it can lead to unhappy endings.

[FlyingSportsman]

Mary; The camera is left alone at all points during the flight, I use it simply to analyze my performance after the flight!

FS :ok: