Which training route to go down?

[Say Cheese]

Hi all,

Long time lurker and fairly recent registrant on here.
I am intending on starting for a license in the new year and am after some opinions as to the best way to go.

I have previously done 3 trial flights. One 11 years ago in a PA28 (I think), one a month or so ago in a R22 Helicopter and one on the same day as the R22 in a C152. I know that after having a go in a helicopter that I love the idea but it's not what I want to fly. I want to go down the route of a fixed wing.

Now to the bit I am not sure about. What to train in?

I live in High Wycombe so am very local to Wycombe Air Park (EGTB). I have done some investigations and have a choice of 3 flying clubs/training establishments. There is airways flying club, Wycombe Air centre and Light sport flying.

Airways flying club use PA28's, Wycombe Air centre C152's and Light sport flying Eurostar EV97's.

What I am not sure about is which is going to be better for me and my long term goals. I am not interested in training for commercial licenses but I do want to be able to fly as much as possible. I want to get my license and then be able to take a passenger (my girlfriend) and go away for a day, maybe when I get some more experience a couple of days. Also my job gives me a lot of time off in the week and I have a friend who lives very near Sywell who loves flying but doesn't have the funds to do so, so i'd like to be able to fly up and see him, maybe take him up for a short flight etc.

As I understand it if I go for the Light sport flying I will train to NPPL and then be able to fly in good daylight weather only (VFR?) However if I go with either of the other two clubs I can train to PPL and then add ratings to allow me to fly at night or in poorer weather. Is my understanding of this correct or have I got it all wrong?

First of all, money is an object and one which will limit how quickly I can do things. I am in a reasonably well paid job but I have bills etc the same as everyone and am not able to get together the funds to be able to do the whole thing in 2 months. I am going to have to spread it out over a year to 18 months. Looking at the websites and the price lists of the respective clubs it is cheaper to go with Light sport flying and an NPPL but am I likely to regret not having the ability to add extra ratings to fly in anything other than great weather? In the UK can you actually do a reasonable amount of flying in good weather on a NPPL? Am I likely to regret not spending the extra funds?
Obviously a PPL is more expensive but if the benefit is so much more worth it in the end I could do it. I will just have to spread the training over a longer period.

Secondly, as I understand it if I want to upgrade from the NPPL to PPL at a later date I can as long as the NPPL training was done by an instructor with the relevant qualification. Assuming the instructor has the relevant qualification is it easy enough to upgrade? Can you do a PPL on a Eurostar or does it have to be a NPPL?

Thirdly, does anyone have any dealings with any of these clubs? Is one better than the other?

Fourth, is it actually possible to get additional ratings for a Eurostar or are you effectively stuck with good weather only?

Oh and if it makes a difference, I should have no issue getting a medical for a PPL. I am fit and healthy and already have a C1 driving license for up to 7.5t for which I had to have a medical.

All opinions appreciated. This is something I want to do, I just don't want to get a license and then be frustrated I can't fly 95% of the year or something ridiculous.

Kind Regards

[XLC]

Hi, the point is mostly about the type of flights you plan to do. I have met many pilots who just fly VFR and happily so as the stay in the vicinity of their base, like most do anyway.
If on the other hand you plan to do a lot of cross-country then the IMC and NQ are very much welcome indeed. But will you?

[patowalker]

The Light Sport Flying School teaches on microlights, so it is unlikely that instructors will have the qualifications for the dual hours to count towards the PPL. However, an NPPL M licence can be upgraded to an NPPL SSEA quite easily once you have flown the necessary hours solo and xc. In turn, the NPPL SSEA can be upgraded to a JAR PPL quite easily, as described in LASORS C6.2.

Check out the the NPPL allowances here http://www.nationalprivatepilotslicence.co.uk/PDFs/NPPL%20XC%20REV%2009.pdf

[Fake Sealion]

The Eurostar comes in both microlight and SEP versions which are identical apart from the latter having an electric fuel pump. So you can do an NPPL (SSEA) in a Eurostar or an NPPL (M). The former will allow you fly larger aircraft such as the PA-28 and C 172 after type conversion, or even a Chipmunk, but no night/IMC add on ratings - its all gotta be day VFR.
The NPPL(M) limits you to other Eurostar type 3 axis aircraft or should you wish a flex wing - again after conversion.

Its not an easy decision. If you want to enjoy the sheer pleasure of flying with one other person and see the ground below you then a NPPL(M) is for you. Google image WT9 Dynamic - you could fly one of those for example.

If you must carry more than one passenger or fly taildraggers or do aerobatics then its NPPL(SSEA)

If its the above plus sub VFR weather flying (you may not necessarily see the ground) or night flying then its JAR PPL (A)


You must also have a plan for financing your post licence flying. Research the cost of a half day hire to Sywell in a Eurostar vs a IFR equipped PA-28/c172 type !!!

I can only speak personally but don't assume you can always get 2 or 3 friends to share a 4 seater costs. In reality after initial enthusiasm interest wanes and so this rarely is the case and you will end up paying top dollar for seats you don't need.

You then look with envy at the Eurostar pilots paying around half the rental compared to your 4 seater.

FS

[patowalker]

So you can do an NPPL (SSEA) in a Eurostar

Not unless you own it.

[Fake Sealion]

Quote:
So you can do an NPPL (SSEA) in a Eurostar
Not unless you own it.

Why is that?

[patowalker]

Because the Eurostar VLA is a homebuilt and doesn't have a Public Transport Certificate of Airwothiness. However, there are exceptions for owners of Permit to Fly aircraft to be trained on their own aircraft.

The factory built microlight version of the Eurostar, although on a Permit to Fly, is legal for training anybody.

[Say Cheese]

Thanks all for your replies.

You must also have a plan for financing your post licence flying. Research the cost of a half day hire to Sywell in a Eurostar vs a IFR equipped PA-28/c172 type !!!
I think it's this which is going to sway me down the Eurostar NPPL route more than anything.

Another question for you all. I know that with an NPPL it's VFR only but is there any limit on which airports you can land at with an NPPL? Can I for example fly down to and land at Bournemouth or other such larger airports or will I get refused as I will have NPPL only?
Obviously i'm not going to try anything stupidly ambitious like Heathrow but to be able to fly into a larger airport like Bournemouth would be a bonus.

Also can you fly over water i.e. to the Isle of Wight, or is it over land only?

Thanks all, your replies are appreciated.

[Fake Sealion]

Major Class A airports will not accept anyone without an Instrument Rating whatever their licence as far as I know plus the cost of landing there will be eye watering:eek:

However you can if you choose land at a whole bunch of airports such as Bournemouth, Leeds, East Midlands, Bristol, Durham, Norwich, Liverpool, Humberside and others with a NPPL or PPL. If you plan ahead they will usually permit you to land although the aircraft may need to be transponder equipped and you may not necessarily get clearance straight away. Landing/handling fees however may well approach 3 figures so its best to avoid unless you really need to go there! Your ground school will cover the regulation of controlled airspace around commercial airports.

NPPLs can fly to Isle of Wight, Isle of Man, Northern Ireland. They can also fly to France and into some of Europe in a microlight if prior permission is sought. not sure about NPPL in a SSEA though. Safety regulations concerning flight over water will be covered in your ground school. Check out FAQs on NPPL website.

Generally speaking the UK NPPL will morph into a Euro Wide "Leisure Pilots Licence" over the next 5 years or so and things could change for the better or worse.

At Bagby North Yorkshire there is a 2010 factory built Microlight Eurostar available for hire at £57 ph wet.

[Say Cheese]

NPPLs can fly to Isle of Wight, Isle of Man, Northern Ireland. They can also fly to France and into some of Europe in a microlight if prior permission is sought.
Ok so I can go a little further afield if I want to then.

Thanks all for the information. It's been useful.
I think i'm pretty much decided on the NPPL. I shall go and get a trial flight in one soon and make a firm decision.

Regards