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View Full Version : NPPL(M)-NPPL(SSEA) - What I am doing


carlmeek
16th Oct 2011, 09:28
I found my searches on Google and PPRUNE to be hard work finding out what I needed to know on this topic, so I thought I would write it up on here to help anyone in the future.

I've got over 100 solo hours on a Jabiru UL-450 Microlight, so easily meet the requirements of hours. I've quoted the official stuff at the bottom of this post for reference.

I had two options of how i was to proceed:
a) Derek Davidson - a friend of mine followed this route and had a successful, albeit a bit rushed, experience.
b) Stay local (Shoreham) and do an hour here, an hour there - better for my working day. So, I chose this option.

I started calling around the schools at Shoreham and most were somewhat baffled by what I was trying to do, didn't have a clue what's needed and others were very busy. I then called Sky Leisure (RedAir) and John on the desk was knowledgeable and enthusiastic about helping, we had full detail of what I needed to do within a few minutes and lessons were booked. I was allocated Owen for every lesson and Martyn would examine. A very friendly club, and I've enjoyed every minute so far.

I worked out that i need to do:

a) The "Aircraft General & Principles of Flight" exam. Note this is one exam, not 2.
b) Convert onto the Cessna 152 i'm going to fly. Not an official requirement, but obvious really!
c) 2 Hours of stalls/spin awareness
d) 1 Hour of instrument work
e) GST - The flying skills test
f) NST - The navigation skills test

As i write this, I have done 2 hours of general handling/conversion and the 3 hours of official stall/spin/instrument and i just passed my GST yesterday and I have already done the ground exam. Just the NAV to do, which I hope to have done within a week. Total flight time should be 7 or 8 hours, budget somewhere around £1600-1800.

Then it should be a case of bundling it up and posting it off and waiting (perhaps 10 days?)

Anyway, before i sign off to the official stuff, I hope that this helps someone else!

----the official stuff----
NPPL(Microlight) or UK PPL (Microlight) to NPPL (SSEA)

The holder of a valid NPPL with Microlight Class Rating or UK PPL (M) licence without restrictions
who wishes to obtain a SSEA Class Rating shall:
a. Produce the NPPL or UK PPL (M);
b. Produce logbook evidence of currency on Microlight aircraft;
c Carry out such SSEA conversion training as is judged necessary by the FI(A) or CRI(SPA)
conducting the training to achieve the required standard for the applicant to take the NPPL
NST and GST in a SSEA. This training must include:
(1) Not less than 1 hour of dual instrument appreciation;
(2) 2 hours stall awareness/spin avoidance training;
(3) Differences training for Microlight pilots whose Microlight flying has been solely on
flexwing aircraft;
(4) Not less than the 32 hours required minimum total flight time for the NPPL with SSEA
Class Rating, which may be a combination of both Microlight and SSEA flying.
d. Pass the JAR-FCL PPL (A) theoretical examination in Aircraft (General) & Principles of Flight;
e. Hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or JAA Class 1 or 2 medical certificate;
f. Pass the NPPL NST and GST in a SSEA.
For the holder of a PPL (M) with operating restrictions, the requirements shall further include:
g. The whole of the navigation training required for the NPPL with SSEA Class Rating;
h. The completion of a minimum of 10 hours total solo flying which may be a combination of
Microlight and SSEA flying.

An applicant who has commenced training for a NPPL with Microlight Class Rating, but who elects to
train for the NPPL with SSEA Class Rating before qualifying as a Microlight pilot may claim all those
hours of Microlight training on either control system undertaken in the previous 6 months as
allowances against training for the NPPL with SSEA Class Rating subject to the following provisos:
a. The minimum requirement of 10 hours solo must be flown in a single-engine piston aeroplane
for the grant of a NPPL with SSEA Class Rating;
b. The minimum requirement of 32 hours of flying instruction required for the NPPL may consist
of a combination of Microlight and SSEA training;
c. The whole of the navigation training required for the NPPL with SSEA Class Rating must be
completed.

chrisp666
18th Oct 2011, 14:56
I went with him and it was fun as well as instructive. I did find him hard to get hold of initially, but believe me, it's worth persevering.

pitofrost
19th Oct 2011, 16:55
Slight thread drift but what do you have to do to go the other way.

I have searched on this site but all threads seem to be (M) to (A) on the NPPL.

I have a JAA PPL (A) if I want to fly microlights (specifically three axis) can I just do that with difference training? - I imagine that the lower inertia, lower wing loading and lower landing speeds will be the main gotchers - or do I need to do a more formal course of study? Are the exams the same or would I need to do any specific microlight ones?

Has anyone on here done this and what was it like?

I guess the regulatory position is the same for weight shift, but common sense would seem to dictate a much longer period of re training?

patowalker
19th Oct 2011, 17:45
SECTION 4. CROSS-CREDITING LICENCES AND RATINGS TO NPPL (MICROLIGHT)
4.1 Pilots with valid licences and ratings NPPL (SSEA), UK PPL (A) or CAA-issued JAR-FCL Pilot Licence (Aeroplanes) with SEP Class Rating to NPPL (Microlight)

The holder of a valid NPPL (SSEA), UK PPL (A) or CAA-issued JAR-FCL Pilot Licence (Aeroplanes) with SEP Class Rating who wishes to obtain a Microlight Class Rating shall:
a. Produce the NPPL (SSEA), UK PPL (A) or CAA-issued JAR-FCL Pilot Licence (Aeroplanes);
b. Pass the Microlight Aeroplanes Type (Part 2) oral examination conducted by a Microlight flight examiner. The examination shall include pilot maintenance requirements and conditions of the Permit to Fly;
c. Hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or JAR-FCL Class 1 or 2 medical certificate;
d. Pass the NPPL GST in a Microlight.

http://www.nationalprivatepilotslicence.co.uk/PDFs/NPPL%20XC%20REV%2009.pdf page 16

pitofrost
19th Oct 2011, 19:24
PW,

Thanks very much for that.

Fake Sealion
20th Oct 2011, 09:38
I added (M) to my NPPL(SSEA) about 2 yrs ago.
I did 1 hour with a FI in the Eurostar followed a few days later by a GST of 1 hour 10 mins. Had a oral exam on the aircraft performance and maintenance regime- about 20 minutes. Examiner signed off, sent paperwork off to CAA, amended licence back in about 10 days.

Now enjoy my flying even more cos its at half the cost!

carlmeek
25th Oct 2011, 07:51
To update on my original post...

I passed the NST and documents in the post. Lets hope I filled all the Boxes in correctly, as it isn't obvious.

:)

S-Works
25th Oct 2011, 08:56
I have a JAA PPL (A) if I want to fly microlights (specifically three axis) can I just do that with difference training?

Yes you can. Your SEP rating has embedded Microlight priviliges built on. Just do the differences training.

carlmeek
25th Oct 2011, 08:59
However, and I discovered this recently, the same does not apply to an NPPL(SSEA). You specifically cannot fly microlights on an SSEA rating unless you keep your Microlight rating current.

For me, my Microlight rating expires in a few months so I will need to get my local Microlight instructor to give me an hour of training in order to revalidate. If i don't do this and it lapses, I will have to do another GST in order to restore microlight privileges.

S-Works
25th Oct 2011, 09:16
Yep. The NPPL requires specific class ratings. The JAA SEP requires differences training.

Genghis the Engineer
25th Oct 2011, 20:09
Yep. The NPPL requires specific class ratings. The JAA SEP requires differences training.

Rather surreal given that SSEA is arguably closer to M than SEP is to M, and that the stuff deleted from the JAR skill test to construct the NPPL skill test, you couldn't do on a microlight anyhow.

G

patowalker
25th Oct 2011, 21:43
This looks like more than differences training to me:

b. Pass the Microlight Aeroplanes Type (Part 2) oral examination conducted by a Microlight flight examiner. The examination shall include pilot maintenance requirements and conditions of the Permit to Fly;

d. Pass the NPPL GST in a Microlight.

Fake Sealion
26th Oct 2011, 08:33
This looks like more than differences training to me:

b. Pass the Microlight Aeroplanes Type (Part 2) oral examination conducted by a Microlight flight examiner. The examination shall include pilot maintenance requirements and conditions of the Permit to Fly;

d. Pass the NPPL GST in a Microlight.

True...but in reality don't PPL(A) pilots end up doing the above before sign off??
Plus . . .PPLs cannot count micro hours towards their 24 months re-val hours AFAIK, whereas holders of both NPPL(SSEA) & (M) can cross credit most of their hours except for 1 hour of PIC and 1 hour FI flight in EACH.

S-Works
26th Oct 2011, 09:18
Ok, I will say it again wth my examiner hat on. The holder of a JAA SEP rating (or UK CAA SEP) has embedded microlight priviliges. They only require differences training. The question was:

I have a JAA PPL (A) if I want to fly microlights (specifically three axis) can I just do that with difference training?
If someone holds an NPPL with an SSEA rating then that rating does not have embedded priviliges for microlights. In order to fly a microlight they will need to train with an FI, CRI or Microlight Instructor and then take the GST and Oral test and add the Microlight Class Rating to the NPPL.

Fake Sealion
26th Oct 2011, 09:58
Ok, I will say it again wth my examiner hat on. The holder of a JAA SEP rating (or UK CAA SEP) has embedded microlight priviliges. They only require differences training. The question was:

Quote:
I have a JAA PPL (A) if I want to fly microlights (specifically three axis) can I just do that with difference training?
If someone holds an NPPL with an SSEA rating then that rating does not have embedded priviliges for microlights. In order to fly a microlight they will need to train with an FI, CRI or Microlight Instructor and then take the GST and Oral test and add the Microlight Class Rating to the NPPL.

OK -leave aside the oral test - would you sign a PPL(A) off after micro differences training at anything less than the standard required if he/she were taking a NPPL(M) GST?

S-Works
26th Oct 2011, 10:25
Lets not gold plate the regulations. We have EASA for that.

The requirement is simple, the holder of a PPL(A) may fly a microlight on the embedded priviliges within the SEP Class Rating.

Technically they do not need differences training to fly a 3 Axis microlight. However due to the differences in weight etc it is advised that they seek differences training from an appropriate Instructor.

The content of that training is at the discretion of the Instructor. When the Instructor is satisfied they will annote the logbook accordingly.

I have checked out many people in this manner with no issue and equally seen many SEP pilots able to jump into a ML with no differences training. This is especially so for the guys going from aircraft that are both ML and SEP Class like Eurostars. The line is very blurred these days.

Genghis the Engineer
26th Oct 2011, 11:03
I reckon we used to have 1-2 perfectly serviceable "old technology" microlights annually destroyed by experienced group A pilots who took advantage of the privileges of their licences, without taking advantage of the privileges of being able to get a grown up to check them out.

I agree that going from a C152 to a Eurostar is pretty undramatic; going from (say) a PA28 to a Thruster TST is just asking for trouble without some instruction.

So, I'd suggest do what's needed to get competent - just take care to tick the relevant legal box en-route.

The CAA/JAR/NPPL -->M issue is silly (3 licences, essentially the same test standards, testable on the same aeroplane, each with a different mechanism to fly a microlight legally), but somehow I doubt we'll solve it here, so the most important thing is to understand it and get it right.

G

patowalker
26th Oct 2011, 21:10
... aircraft that are both ML and SEP Class like Eurostars.

Got one of those, but not the type that can be both ML and SEP. The SL is an ML everywhere, except the UK.

Yes, Evektor produces obsolete Eurostars exclusively for the UK market. :O

Fake Sealion
27th Oct 2011, 10:42
Got one of those, but not the type that can be both ML and SEP. The SL is an ML everywhere, except the UK.

Yes, Evektor produces obsolete Eurostars exclusively for the UK market.


Didn't realise there were any SL's in UK? Looks like a very good aircraft.

Slight thread drift but I am a little confused. Just looked on G-INFO at Eurostars there is one which is homebuilt, is described as "Microlight" but has MTOW of 480kg.
I understood that all homebuilt Eurostars are not microlights but class A or SEP or whatever its now called? Why 480kg not 450 Kg if its a microlight?

Genghis?

Genghis the Engineer
27th Oct 2011, 11:34
480kg MTOW could only possibly be a microlight if it has a BRS and floats but still keeps the stall speed below 35 knots and doesn't degrade the structural limits below minima. Possible I suppose, but sounds like a bit of a c0ck-up on the keeping accurate technical records front.

G