First trial lesson

[arut]

Hi,

I just had my first trial lesson this past weekend, and would like to ask for some pointers as to what was normal/expected, and what was not (mainly to guide my future choice of actual flying school):
- instructor said he's already done the pre-flight check and, after a 5min briefing in a room we just boarded the plane and went to the engine startup check (I was hoping for a more thorough intro into pre-flight)
- I was allowed to taxi for a bit
- instructor did the whole take-off and leaving the circuit, only giving me a chance to try the controls once we left the ATZ (I fully expect that was normal, given this was first time)
- once further out, we climbed a bit, but the instructor did the climb without much explanation
- I was allowed to fly straight and level and do some turns. I found that I actually needed no rudder input in this Cessna 152 for the balance ball to be centered, it just went into a turn (is this normal/expected?)
- instructor put the volume of the radio very low during the flight, only putting it up to hearing level once we were on our way back
- I was allowed to fly to the first VRP, but instructor told me not to mind the compass at all, just select a point on the ground and go for it
- also, the instructor didn't much comment on altitude and I had the impression that we were randomly gaining or losing altitude up to 200ft, esp during turns (it was quite windy, so might be just that)
- once close to the airport, the instructor contacted the ATC and had control all the way back to the parking spot
- virtually no feedback from instructor apart from the casual question "How was it?"

I understand this was a trial lesson, so shouldn't expect much. However, I have heard stories of other people getting a bit more instruction, not just flying around, during their first lesson.

So, what is normal?

[Warrior2]

Hi Arut,

Most trial lessons will follow that exact format. Remember, Its your very first flying lesson, and If the Instuctor started telling you off for loosing 200ft, Im sure that you would not return for another lesson.

There are so many different things which may happen which in the end will determine what you get to do.

The instructor probably went out to the General Practice area and turned down the radio to Nil so that both of you could hear each other comfortably.

Climbing & Descending are a complete hour lesson. Dont feel behind that you didnt get to do it. Theres a lot more than just pulling back.

The first couple of hours will all relate to your outside surroundings. You will learn to fly Straight & Level using your eyes and Adjust the power settings using your ears.

Sometimes when im with people on a trial flight, ATC can get busy and I feel the need to fly into the traffic pattern when I return. If I let the student do it, I have to talk to atc, then talk to the student and tell him how to turn. (Bear in mind, you do not learn how to turn untill the 9th lesson!)

However, on occasions, Where there is no air traffic around & its a nice calm day. I have let the student fly all the way down to the runway and let them flare.

Just hard luck! Sounds like it was a busy day at the airfield.

[Heston]

The flight aspects you describe sound pretty normal to me and the parts of the flight that you were allowed "hands on". But clearly the instructor wasn't doing a very good job of selling the idea of learning to fly to you. Instructors tend to treat trial flight lessons differently depending on whether they think there is a realistic chance of the "pupil" signing up to learn. If they understand that the lesson was bought as a birthday present or similar, and is unlikely to be repeated, they're not going to try very hard.

Did you make it clear before hand that you want to learn?

H

[arut]

Thanks Warrior2,

However, how does this tie up with the expectation (from what I have read so far mostly on this forum) that the first solo would normally be around the 10-12th hour. Does this mean the first solo is usually quite bad in shape and form, with the student barely aware what they are doing? (sounds like fun)

I think I have made it fairly clear that I was a prospective student, and that I have already read a lot (i.e. first three books of the Thom series), so I would have expected the instructor to put a bit more effort, but that may be just over-expectation on my part

Arut

[avonflyer]

I think it is difficult to draw a straight line relationship from a trial lesson to a first solo.

A LOT will happen in the interim, straight and level, turns, climb and descent, stall recovery, approach and landing. Some of these will be knocked off in one lesson others will take some time to sink in.. But, at a time appropriate to how you are progressing (ignore what others do it will vary upon you and a myriad of other factors) you go solo..

[Warrior2]

It is possible that the Instructor didnt really give a toss. Which is something you really dont want at an early stage.

I do however have to burst the bubble of the first solo. It is very very rare that a student will go solo at 10Hours. The norm is around 16-18hours.

There have been some exceptions to this. Guys will tell you they were solo after 4 hours. They probably had a lot of lessons before and could only log official hours after such a time. You could not cover all the pre-solo lessons in under 12 Hours safely.

Also bear in mind, that you may have to repeat one or two.

But when the day comes, both you and the Instructor will feel ready.

Stick at it, and try to book lessons as close together as possible.

With my students, I usually relate to the First Solo in the De-Brief, So each time they can see their progress and feel a little better about the progress they are making.

If you have access to the Flying Schools aircraft, Go sit in them and chairfly everything! Most PPLs will be so nervous because its a new environment. If you get comfortable with how the controls/buttons/switches feel you will be flying! :O

[Crash one]

I'm not an instructor but in this case I don't believe the instructor did a good job.
If you sounded keen to fly the thing & showed no tendency to panic or grab things inapropriate! I see no reason why the "student" cannot be given control from the start, with the instructor "at the ready". A decent briefing would tell the instructor a lot about you.
I have taken passengers who have never flown light a/c before & after talking to them before flight & watching their reaction to the take off I often let them fly it from "flaps up" to downwind. No doubt instructors will condemn such behaviour, but so far it has been sucessful, always with keen friends not total strangers, but that is what the instructor should be able to assess.
Just my tuppence worth.

[The500man]

There's alot of new things going on in the trial lesson from a student perspective. Observing and getting an impression of what it is like to fly is more important than actually flying.

On a side note you'll find instructors want to teach you in the early stages, so going into lessons with "I did this on flight sim", or, "I read such and such in a book", can actually be counter-productive.

In my experience (I flew with eight different instructors during PPL training) there is no substitute for experience in aviation; the crusty old instructors will train you faster. Younger instructors tend to be more interested in following a set lesson plan regardless of your aptitude, but you should honestly forget about the time it takes you to go solo. It really isn't a measure of how good you are as a pilot. There are alot of factors that will have a bearing on how long it takes.

Best of luck with it! :ok:

[mad_jock]

That certainly isn't my normal format.

I certainly would have asked the question if you were thinking about taking this further and then things would have changed but not by much.

Brief 10mins max if you had already said you were interested, 5 mins if its a no intention.

You would have been included in checking the oil etc. Then strap you in with safety brief.

You would have taxied it out.

You would have done the TO.

You would have flown the climb.

I would have taken it off you and trimmed it while explaining what I was doing, then you would have flown the rest of the time unless you requested that you wanted to see a stall or steep turn.

You would have then got 3 choices for the landing. Watch, follow me on the controls, or do as I tell you until I decide we are about to crash.

But then again I always did have a knack of getting PPL students to start after TF's

And please please don't worry about when you will go solo. There is so many variables that come into play in the amount of time it takes and only one of them is the pilot ability.

[stevelup]

I don't remember feeling disappointed after my first lesson. The briefing was 10-15 minutes long. Outside, we walked around the aircraft and looked at all the wobbly bits.

I had control for all the lesson apart from the takeoff + landing. I even did a steep turn!

Here's what I wrote at the time:-

Absolutely glorious day here. Clear blue skies and bright sunshine – chose a lucky day for sure!

Met up with Roly who did a brief run through of the controls using a model, then out to the aircraft which was a Robin R2100.

We had to wait a minute for a bizjet to move out of the way before we could begin taxiing. I steered during the taxi and Roly operated the brakes and throttle.

Lined up behind three others waiting for take off and we were airborne within five minutes. Followed the A417 down towards Swindon. There are a number of active gliding and parachute sites so it was necessary to avoid these.

The plan was to fly over my house in Swindon which would have taken us into Lyneham's zone so Roly got permission from them and they gave us a transponder code to squawk. I couldn’t cope with setting it and looking where I was going at the same time though as it was down by the left hand side of the seat!

When we reached the M4, I then managed to find my garden from the air which I was pleased about.

We then headed back up the A419 avoiding another parachute site. There were a few minutes to spare so I did a couple of gentle turns followed by a rather exhilarating 60 degree turn at 2G which put a smile on my face.

Dropping down to 1500 feet, we entered the circuit and landed half way down the runway to avoid an excessively long taxi.

[Morris542]

My trail flights (I had two with different clubs) were very similar, however I had a detailed pre-flight brief and everything was explained clearly throughout.

My first "proper" lesson was my second hour at the club I chose, with a very detailed pre-flight brief (over an hour long, including checking aircraft, weather etc) learning to taxi, doing the throttle for takeoff etc etc... I used my trial flights to get a feel for the atmosphere of the aerodrome and club, the relationship between students and instructors and finally trying the cafe to see if the bacon baps were any good!

[allsaint]

Don't worry too much, it sounds pretty normal for a trial flight. The idea of the first lesson is to give people a general feel of what it's like to fly, covering every point in detail would lead to information overload and put most people off flying altogether.
As your lessons progress your instructor will get a feel of how much you're able to handle, and each lesson will focus on a different aspect introducing things gradually until you're ready for that first solo.
It sounds as though you're really prepared and have gone along to your first lesson equipped with far more knowledge than the average student.
If you're not happy, try a different flying school or instructor, you'll know where you feel most comfortable.
Good luck. :ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

Lots of sensible opinions here, I'd just like to chip in on one point not discussed so far.

The compass (or the DI, which is the instrument in front of you on the instrument panel), is used for navigations - of course. However, as a PPL you'd do a majority of your flying visually, rather that by reference to instruments. So by having you flying to a point you could see, rather than follow a compass heading, the instructor is introducing good PPL-flying practice at the earliest stage.


Adding a couple of points to that:

- Worrying about height keeping on a trial lesson is just going to overload a student: you may well have been going up or down a few hundred feet in your turns, and I really wouldn't worry about that.

- Yes, the C152 needs very little rudder in shallow turns with the flaps up. This is normal. Steeper turns, and turns in the landing configuration, you'll need a bit more.

- Turning the radio down so that you and the instructor could talk relatively uninterupted also makes good sense to me.

- If you were showing more than casual interest in the flying, then personally I do think that a rather longer and more robust debrief was in order.

G

[Dan the weegie]

Taxying a C152 is easy enough but it's a bit harder than taxying a Tommie, I'm not sure I'd always let them to the taxying as quite often the brakes are a little squishy and the aircraft doesn't respond as fast as you would like it to :) , also it depends what aerodrome they were at and how new the instructor was as well.

All sounds like a really good trial lesson and perhaps more of a debrief would have been warranted but what feedback can you give other than "how was it?" and "do you have any questions?" "When can I book you in for your next flight?"

MJ does have a habit of converting Trial Lessons into full courses though ;).

[Grob Queen]

Hi Arut,
Fantastic that you have got started! Ref trial lesson. well, i'm not exactly normal in that because my trial flight was a good friend of mine taking me in the Chipmunk. He gave me a very thorough briefing, on the use of the parachute and how to get out of the back seat of a Chippy. He took off, but once we were about 2,000ft he gave me control, for most of teh trip. He showed me a couple of aerobatic manouvres, then gave me control to do the loop and aileron roll; then I had a couple of goes at landing at Wickenby before we recovered to base after about an hour.

However, my first poper lesson with my club. My instructor adn also that i ahd already been flying with a seriously experienced pilot and fully pre-flight briefed me, explained the cockpit and the cockpit checks and external checks, basically started to explain everything as he knew I wanted to learn!

As to solo, I didn't go solo until after 27 hours...so I agree with teh old campaigners on this forum, there are so many variables with flying...even I know that already! Your instructor will send you solo when tehy know you are ready....One flight is never the same as the next, but rest assured, if you get a good instructor and an good rapport with him or her as I have with mine, flying lessons will be fun, ask as many questions as you like, don't think they will think ill of you - thats their job...certainly mine perfers me to ask as many things as possible and always, at teh end of a debrief "any questions?" usually loads!! now he doesn't always preflught brief if we're just going up to do some circuits or steep turns, basiclly anything we have done before.

Oh yes, and just because you go solo, don't think you'll go solo every flight! I haven't!

So whichever club you choose, don't worry about what tehy do or don't do, just listen to your instructor; I know theres a lot to take in, but you'll get there, take it in teh stages that your instructor wants you to take it in...and don't expect perfection at once...

By the way, you did well to go flying at the weekend, Kentish airspace must ahev been a lolt calmer than Lincolnshire airspace!!

Good luck:ok:
GQ

[Gertrude the Wombat]

(I was hoping for a more thorough intro into pre-flight)
Well, in some places your first lesson after the trial one consists entirely of briefings, paperwork, checks, and taxying ... without actually taking off!

You don't want that on most trial flights, which are about (a) is this guy going to be sick (b) is he going to start screaming (c) is he going to like flying or find it boring (d) did he actually want this birthday present in the first place.

Most of us who've been flying for a while can now get the time from parking the car to leaving the ground down to well under an hour, provided that the plane doesn't need refuelling and that you don't have to wait for the previous person to bring the plane back and that you don't have to wait for an instructor to come back from lunch to sign the authorisation book, but you still want to skip most of that for a trial lesson. If you do take up lessons you'll soon find that you're doing all the pre-flight checks whilst the instructor stays in the warm.

[Pull what]

It is very very rare that a student will go solo at 10Hours. The norm is around 16-18hours.

More P-prune folk lore

[foxmoth]

You could not cover all the pre-solo lessons in under 12 Hours safely

Whilst most people will take this long and often as said longer, it would be a poor instructor who could not cover everything up to pre solo in under 10 hours, 8 even for an exceptional student with good continuity.

[Dawdler]

With regard to the OP on my very first trial lesson, I was allowed to fly straight and level and try a few turns etc., but when we were about five miles out on our return, ATC asked us to stay out of the way as there was a 737 coming in. The instructor took control and carried out the instruction (as I would have expected). This was my first lesson after all and I not am sure that I fully heard/understood the ATC instruction anyway. Most of these "trial lessons" are bimbles to see if the potential student likes small aircraft flying rather than a lesson as such.

[foxmoth]

Most of these "trial lessons" are bimbles to see if the potential student likes small aircraft flying rather than a lesson as such.

I would disagree with this as well - for those only coming for what is really an air experience flight, this is fine, but anyone who looks like they are serious about learning the first lesson should cover "Effects of Controls 1" in sufficient depth to then be able to go onto and finish EoC 2 in the second lesson.

[mad_jock]

that isn't the purpose of the ex 3 foxmouth if it is the start of the course.

It is for them to get acquainted with the sensation of flight and also the ground side of things.

If I was doing a zero to hero the ex 3 would take at least an hour if not an hour and half with 20-30mins airborne. Including 1 and 2

Pre flight pre brief would be the normal TF but also include exposure to techlog and paper work, airport rules and regs and ground emergencys. Flight wouldn't be to a area of there choice it would be to show them the training area and point out various land marks and of course have a bit of a laugh. De-brief on flight would be very brief mainly "did you enjoy that" then they would be sat down and the ground school and books sorted out. And have a question and answer session which the parent would sit in on if they were funding it. The student has to feel special, the parent has to trust you and there has to be a few ground rules to be set.

There is a knack of getting a full course out of a punter and unfortunately a hellva lot of instructors don't have a clue how its done,

[Flamin_Squirrel]

My trial flight was similar.

Were you tired afterwards? I was. Probably means just flying about a bit was enough for me for a first flight!

[B2N2]

This sounds pretty much like the trial lesson I gave this morning.
I was planning on having the preflight finished by the time the customer showed up but he was early so he tagged along on the preflight.
At this stage in the game it doesn't really pay off to do a very elaborate lenghthy (45+min) instructional preflight. I can't assume you have any idea what I'm talking about except for the very basic.
We went back inside for the WX brief which I briefly explained and I did a quick feet=rudder=yaw and hands=aileron/elevator=pitch/roll.
I briefed on exchange of flight controls and that was it. Safety brief and go.
He got the controls at 1500' and flew for the next 45 min, more or less straight and level doing turns solely on outside reference (see the town? Fly me to it please, follow the road etc etc)
I kept quiet for at least half the time to let him enjoy the scenery (100+ miles vis) and not overload him.
Took the controls again below 1500' and landed, taxied to the apron.
Signed up on the spot and will start in two weeks.
A trial lesson is a bit of a misnomer as it's more a introduction flight then a first lesson.
In my neck of the woods you would do an intro-flight then 4-5 hrs of ground school before you fly your first "real" lesson so you at least know what your instructor is talking about and you are not completely overwhelmed in the aircraft.