Heavy Hand

[Jimpilot]

Hi all,

Not sure if this is the place to post but I was wondering if anyone has had the same experience as me in their flight training. I have about 70 hours and a PPL(A) and have just started an integrated fATPL.

Im on hour 8 of the course and due to solo soon in a C172. However I suddenly feel like I cant land the damn aeroplane. Im tensing up on finals, gripping the control column with an iron fist and really wrestling a crosswind and over-controlling which leads to not so nice landings, either heavy or with a balloon. 3 sets of circuits the past 3 days and its been almost the same story every day, apart from a few greasers yesterday which were prob my best landings ever.

Im angry at myslef because I know I can do this, though most of my previous flying was in 152s ive soloed 3 other types including tailwheel. This is my first time in a 172.

If anyone has had these days or knows a remedy please drop a line.

Thanks

Jim

[JW411]

Try holding the control column with your wrists "broken" (in other words, with your fingers at 90 degrees to your arm) and holding thecontrol column/wheel with just your fingers tips. It is then quite difficult to tense up and so start overcontrolling.

If you usually hold the control column/wheel with your hands and your wrist in line with your arms then it becomes very easy to tense up and overcontrol if things are not going according to plan.

Use your fingers not your hands!

[jxc]

with the 172 just nail the numbers everything else falls into place

[Echo Romeo]

The two I've flown just about landed themselves, I'm sure you will get to grips with it:ok:

[JW411]

But that's the whole point; don't grip - use your fingers!

[Flash0710]

amazingly so, just two fingers can move an aeroplane..... try it.....

as i have heard before.... " would you hold your hampton like that....?"


hugs

xxxx
f

[thing]

This has made me think actually. I usually land with the first three fingers of my left hand curled lightly around the yoke and my thumb hovering above. My little finger is usually doing the 'posh tea drinker' pose.

[Pitts2112]

Fairly standard early problem. My instructor made me thread a pencil through my fingers while holding the yoke so if I gripped too hard it would hurt the outside of my fingers.

It worked! Painful, but effective.

Very soon you'll learn how to fly the airplane with just two fingers - or even no hands using only the rudder and trim wheel. Now THAT'S a lot of fun!!

[shumway76]

Using only rudder & trim wheel?

"Trim should never be used to control the aircraft, but used to relieve any pressure felt on the controls"

"Rudder is not used to control the aircraft, but to correct for errors that are inherited by design of aerodynamics & flight controls"

p/s the rudder quote might be a bit off, but basically rudder is used for correction (aileron adverse yaw, keeping aircraft in balance etc etc) you get the idea...

But then again, I must admit, once in a while I do go against the laws... guilty as charged...

[Pitts2112]

Shumway,

Despite what that esteemed author may have written, it's not only great fun but also a pretty good exercise to get to know your aircraft. I used to do circuits in the Taylorcraft using nothing but rudder, power, and trim just for the hell of it. They weren't pretty, mind you, but I learned a lot about secondary effects and my airplane that way. I even tried to do a loop in the Pitts with just trim but that was a flawed idea.

And in the cruise, the rudder was a primary flight control for me just to stay on heading. The roll coupling is a lot more gentle and easy to control than constantly having to make roll inputs with the ailerons.

[Pace]

Jim

Its a common thing! Most pilots get times when they do greasers, every landing is a good one until one day??? A bad or heavyish landing. After that the Greasers seem alusive the landings too firm.
It is that flicker of confidence which changes, that slight apprehension. You are tense, scared that you will do another heavy landing.
Firstly make sure the aircraft is properly trimmed. As you add flap retrim so the controls are silky smooth and you are not fighting out of trim forces.
Relax. on the approach take your fingers away from the column and guide it using the palm of your hands.
As you start to come towards the final 100 feet gently bring your fingers back into play.
It is just confidence! with confidence comes relaxation and the knowledge that you are in control of the aircraft not the other way around.
Even talk to the damn thing and tell it your boss :E

Pace

[ShyTorque]

Despite what that esteemed author may have written, it's not only great fun but also a pretty good exercise to get to know your aircraft. I used to do circuits in the Taylorcraft using nothing but rudder, power, and trim just for the hell of it. They weren't pretty, mind you, but I learned a lot about secondary effects and my airplane that way.

My instructor (back in 1973) decided to show me how he could fly a circuit like this after I overcontrolled somewhat in the strong and bumpy wind.

He learned about windshear and turbulence on short finals. As we flew over the lee of a row of Poplar trees on the other side of the road from the airfield, we suffered severe windshear. The nose dropped until all we could see through the windscreen was grass and boundary hedge.

As he fumbled to sort out power, flap etc I instinctively pulled back on the yoke (I suppose I took control as self preservation kicked in) and we landed hard just inside the airfield boundary, short of the runway. He didn't speak another word and he went away without debriefing me. He eventually apologised via the CFI. I was actually expecting a rollocking because the instructor was that sort, an ex RAF Lightning pilot, and he seemed very angry with me at the time. He apparently went off to see the CFI then went off sick. I never flew with him again. He was later fired for a stupid misdemeanour causing an aircraft and a motorbike to be written off.

[2 sheds]

Never mind not being able to land the aeroplane, where on Earth do these get picked up...?
Im tensing up on finals and even worse...
windshear and turbulence on short finals. !

2 s

[ShyTorque]

Oh, here we go - a pedantic ATCO trying to divert the thread. :rolleyes:

This is a pilot's discussion. Pilots know what finals means, even if we say "final" on the R/T.

Anyway, in 1973 it was finals.

In fact for the first twenty years of my earlier career it was correct to say "Finals, three Greens".

[Pitts2112]

Of course, ST, one has to choose time, place and circumstances. I'm not suggesting it in a busy circuit at lunchtime, but on a calm summer evening (benign and predictable winds), at an airfield you know well, and with the airspace to yourself, it's still pretty good fun. Unless I'm the statistical anomaly that somehow managed to survive the exercise...:)

I should also add that I said "circuits", not "touch and goes". I never tried to actually land or take off this way. Even I'M not that nuts.

But enough of my thread drift. A little right rudder pressure and we should be back on course.

[2 sheds]

Oh, here we go - a pedantic ATCO trying to divert the thread.
Thank you for the compliment; so sorry that it is apparently a "pilots' discussion":rolleyes:! Just trying to encourage pedantic pilots as well - once saw an airprox caused by misuse of "short final(s)" (pilot and controller) - and wonder why a student pilot is being exposed to this verbal garbage - and no, it was no different in 1973.

2 s

[ShyTorque]

and no, it was no different in 1973.

Best you tell the RAF then.

[2 sheds]

Quite so, you make my point. Jimpilot is a civilian pilot.

2 s

[ShyTorque]

Quite so, you make my point. Jimpilot is a civilian pilot.

So am I. He was asking for advice on flying an aircraft, not pedantic, sarcastic and inflammatory posts about R/T procedure (R/T never having been mentioned by anyone).

Just to make it clear to all:

The term "finals" should not be used on the R/T. The correct term is "final". This is laid down in the R/T manual, (UK) CAP413.

What we use in discussions held away from the R/T, as free speech is still allowed in UK, is really up to the individual.

Now, back to my maths... math that is.

Silvaire, well done. Best not upset any teachers of mathematic/s out there.... ;)

[Grob Queen]

Oh dear, thanks guys, i was giggling away over the issue of "Finals" or "Final" if its any help, as a student, at an RAF airfield, with RAF instructors, I use callsign then "Finals" all the time when flying ccts and visual recovery. My instructor has no issues with this (I have not yet taken my R/T exam) and I neither have I ahd any irate Air traffickers call me up to put my r/t right!!

Now, to JimPilot's original post. Gripping fingers on the stick is a problem I had to start off with adn certainly still do sometimes, particularly when taking off. My first AirEx flight was actually in a Chippy and my friend and I were doing aeros. My friend was the first to pick me up on my iron grip!

Now i'm learning "properly" my instructor has picked me up on that same iron grip but its less now. Another friend said as I think someone here has that you can fly an aeroplane with the lightest touch of three fingers and I now try and do so. I can understand the feeling of tensing up on Finals...have done so myself, but relaxing and "talking to the aircraft" does strangely help!:ok:

[Pace]

Talking to the aircraft really does help! I do it all the time : )
" you Bitcx I am in command here " works wonders.
Shame I can't do the same with women : )

Pace

[thing]

Talking to the aircraft really does help! I do it all the time : )
" you Bitcx I am in command here " works wonders.
Shame I can't do the same with women : )LOL. I do that in the flare, my words are usually 'Sit down you bitxx..'

FWIW at my club we call final before we turn final, about 3/4 of the way down base leg. Don't ask me why, one of those weird RAF things. So if I'm landing at a 'normal' strip somewhere I have to remember to call final when I'm actually on final.....

Grob Queen are you at Cranwell? Sometimes I say 'final' sometimes I say 'finals', depends how stressed I am....:). Hardly worth loosing sleep over.

[Pitts2112]

Jim,

Another tip occurred to me just now. Whilst flying with two or three fingers for minor corrections is great in the cruise or in gentle maneuvering, in the circuit and landing phase, or steep turns and stalls, where you need greater force and more movement, that won't work as well.

My solution to that one is to not hold the yoke with my whole hand as though it were a pistol, but to just curve my fingers around the yoke using only the first two pads/knuckles, and then the first pad of the thumb. It gives you a positive grip, enough strength to get the job done, but won't let you get a hamfisted strangle on the yoke.

[justmaybe]

Don't be too hard on yourself. Moving from the 150/152 to the 172 does cause a few problems for the first few hours. The 172 will tend to float a lot more if not flown at the correct speed, and the 'springy' u/c will cause you to bounce much more readily than the 152.

[Jimpilot]

Hi eveyone,

Firstly thanks for getting back! I didnt think the intricacies of landing a 172 would get so much attention!

I've been busy training the past few days so apologies for not getting back sooner. I've been trying the tips suggested on here, even talking to myself and swearing at the poor a/c!

The two finger technique is slowly starting to get the required results! I did find it was a case of just relaxing and remembering the basics. With that came a little bit of confidence. I still have good and bad landings but I think I'm trending in the right direction.

The pencil between the fingers is a novel idea, I'm going to try that on my next set of circuits!

I've done 3 solo hours now so my instructor must be happy that I wont damage myself or the a/c t this stage.

Once again thanks for the help and keep this discussion going, I for one am finding it very interesting and in the true spirit of this forum!

Jim

[FlyingKiwi_73]

JimPilot, last year i took a mate flying, who happens to be a visiting surgeon from Kings in larndarn (he works with my mum) anyway this man can tie a knot in surgical silk with one hand wearing gloves. To say he was a deft touch would be an understatement.

I took him for a site seeing tour round the vineyards and as i am want to do at safe altitude i encouraged him to take control, he did so and for the next 5 minutes grabbed the yoke like butcher grabs a ham hock! i'm talking +/- 500 ft altitude control and a 5-10 degree side to side rock!

I was amazed that a man who has a 'surgical touch' could be so rough with an airplane!

Don't beat yourself up i had an awful set of landings a few weeks ago in a 172 with the slightest of crosswinds, it made me question a few things about my percieved abilities. incidently i don't have dainty mits either!!!

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