EASA / EFT - to be forewarned is to be forearmed

[abgd]

I know this probably feels like beating a dead horse...

But I'm considering going for my PPL shortly and I'm trying to work out whether it's worth swimming with any of the sharks in Florida, and if so then which of them would be likely to take the smallest bites.

As you can probably tell, I've been reading the forums and my understanding is that there are essentially 3 schools in Florida:

:\Everyone is unanimous not to go to Naples.
:}People are mixed regarding Ormond Beach / Easa.
:confused:EFT seems to have a better reputation, but still not squeaky clean. Significantly more expensive.

I guess my problem is that I know there have recently been changes. E.g. AT has left Ormond beach aviation. Lots of interesting news stories there if you google him. EFT seemed to have lots of complaints in the past, but more recent posts appear far more favourable.

I am having a short career break, and I'm shortly to be a father (about 6 months). My normal working week is 60-80 hours so my experience is that trying to get anything done whilst I'm working just doesn't work... And I know that if I don't get it all done before the baby arrives, I never will! So all in all I have quite a strong reason to go to the USA with its better weather, even though if circumstances were different I would prefer to learn in the UK.

I'd be grateful if anybody on the list would be willing to give me any further information on either OBA/EASA or EFT as these are the two that I'm still considering. I'd be particularly glad to hear from anyone who's been to either school within the last 2 years. And I'd like to hear about any 'hidden extras'. Safety is also obviously a concern, but I don't mind older aircraft so long as they're airworthy.

Please feel welcome to PM me if there's anything you'd rather not discuss on-list.

[Farrell]

First of all, congratulations on what I hope will be a successful pregnancy for your partner and may you have a happy and healthy newborn child to bring joy into your life.

To cut things down to the bare essentials:
If you are really interested in doing a PPL then go ahead and book a course with EFT. Talk to Ian Poll or Matthew Adams: two top-notch instructors who will not mess you around when it comes to training.

However.....
While you are booking yourself in on an intensive course, the clock is ticking for you in a few ways - particularly in relation to how long your sabbatical from work is going to be.
What is advertised as a five or six week PPL is in the lap of the weather and the technical gods.
You could end up there for longer than that, or in the case of my first attempt, a combination of bad weather and a tech issue caused me to have to quit training and come back home to work and then refinish at a later date.
That was a long time ago, but it still smarts.

Secondly, while I know it is going to be great to get a PPL and it may be a life dream for you, the big fact here is that there is a pregnant woman about to get abandoned for at least six weeks (even if she is traveling with you!) - this is probably not the best situation for you to find yourself if she needs you and you can't come home.

Your responsibilities as a father have already begun mate. They do not begin in six month's time.
That naive statement makes me wonder about you.....a lot!

Farrell

[wsmempson]

Congrats on the sabbatical and impending parenthood. Get that PPL before the latter arrives....!

If you're going to do a 'crash course' (an oddly inappropriate term, i'd agree) you'd be well served by nailing the ground exams before you go; it will considerably lighten your load and make the experience there a great deal more enjoyable!

Even if you only do airlaw, met and aircraft technical before you go - your life will be soooo much easier.

[englishal]

I wouldn't go to ANY JAA school in the USA. I'd go to a US school and do a US PPL, then consider converting in the future if needed. At the moment you can fly a G reg in the UK on a US certificate without doing anything.

[abgd]

Farrell...

That's a very good point and one I have thought of. But my partner travels a great deal anyway, so actually if we time things carefully it shouldn't actually change the status quo (i.e. lots of long telephone calls). And obviously if something were to go wrong I would get right on a plane.

That said, if there are any good European alternatives (Spain?) I would certainly consider that, just because I would like to be geographically closer.

I had been anticipating it being somewhat quicker than 6 weeks though - many of the courses are advertised as being 21-28 days. Is this terribly unrealistic?

Thanks (wsmempson) for the suggestions on the exams... I'm just about ready to do most of them, though I figured I'd get better results if I wait for some practical experience before trying to sit RT and navigation.

One of my minor bugbears is that any pre-course cramming seems to be financially penalised. I asked one local operator for a ppl course price if I managed to get all my exams done in advance, and because I already bought some of the goodies (flying computer, literature etc...) and got quoted a higher price than the all-inclusive one. Presumably it makes sense to someone, somewhere.

[abgd]

@EnglishAl

Is there anywhere in particular that you'd suggest? And how difficult would it be to prepare for the US exams given that up until now I've been preparing for the UK exams?

[englishal]

US EXAM...It contains pretty much the same stuff with regards to technical bits, just the rules and airspace are slightly different. Download or buy a copy of the FAR AIM, which has all the operating rules in it and the AIM section has all the chart stuff in, and learn these as the examiner will test you during your Oral examination.

I'd suggest California, and if you want to do it in a nice Diamond DA40 then I'd go to Long Beach.....

[dublinpilot]

englishal,

Do you know what happens to an FAA PPL holder wanting to fly a G reg around Europe come next April?

I asked a similar question last month either here or on Flyer, and the consensious seemed to be that we still need to wait and see.

I wouldn't like to spend all my money now doing an FAA PPL for flying in Europe unless I had some certainty that it would still allow me to fly for the foreseeable future.

dp

[englishal]

No, but I don't care really and so haven't investigated.

There are no plans to "ban" FAA certificate holders from G reg in UK airspace in the immediate future AFAIK, maybe when one needs EASA papers in 2014/2015 it will be a different story but a lot can happen between now and then.

[dublinpilot]

But I'm sure the OP having gone and done their PPL wouldn't like to find themselves restricted to UK airspace.

Therefore they should do the JAA PPL if they plan to fly in Europe.

[wsmempson]

ABGD, I reckon that you're right to leave nav until you have some practical experience under your belt. Most of the others can (and probably should) be done in advance; the thought of learning to fly during the day and then cramming for exams during the evening doesn't sound like my idea of fun. My kind of down-time is far more Homer Simpson-like.

As for schools that want to charge you more for having done some of the exams in advance, my interpretation of that is that they are trying (in not so many words) to tell you what kind of people they are, and what it will be like dealing with them when you get there....:}

[mad_jock]

Why don't you go up to Inverness or Perth or Prestwick and do a full time course in the UK?

Prestwick and Inverness have local micro climates and personally it wasn't unusaul to get a 3 week PPL done in INverness.

[abgd]

That's a nice idea... Really the only reason was that I hadn't realised that it was really feasible in the UK a this time of year. Also last night started looking around Spanish schools.

[mad_jock]

if you do it in the UK you can visit the schools/areas before you start.

Jump on an ezy jet up to INV and have a trial flight then go on the train down to PIK and do the same. You should be able to get a bnb for about 15 quid a night for 3 weeks. Or you can break it up into blocks of a week. The savings you will make in landing fees will cover the flights compared to southern schools.

Don't be worried about folk saying the winds are to high up north. I used send students up solo in 25knts and it was only when the winds got below 5knts that we ever had any issues. Its usually about 10-20 knots down 23 and they haver a short cross runway when its from the north or south.

PIK has similar advantages.

Apart from anything else the views up north are stunning

[IO540]

A PPL started in the UK at this time of the year is likely to prove rather frustrating, and protracted. Unless you get lucky of course...

Nobody (that I know) has the slightest idea whether the current ability to fly a G-reg worldwide VFR on any ICAO PPL will be killed in April 2012.

Currently it appears that it will indeed end, but we already have a definite 2 year derogation on the EASA requirement for mandatory acquisition of EASA papers by all pilots when the "operator" is EU based, and while this has been done mainly as a "finger up to the USA" political gesture by the EU, I cannot immediately (without reading the 1000 pages of EASA garbage) see why this derogation should not cover the situation in the paragraph above.

[rkgpilot]

Also last night started looking around Spanish schools.

How about France? The weather may not be quite so reliable but then, it's not quite so far to go. I can introduce you to a British instructor based there. All training conducted in English. Your PPL will be CAA-issued, not DGAC.

PM for details if interested.

[englishal]

Therefore they should do the JAA PPL if they plan to fly in Europe.
Maybe, but then I wouldn't go to the USA to do the JAA course as what you get there is US training for UK prices - i.e. you pay more for the same training as someone else sat next to you, because you are on a JAA course and they are doing the FAA PPL, and your FI might be the same bloke! (not dissing FAA training as I actually reckon it is better than most of the JAA rubbish).

What some clever folks do is do the JAA ground exams in the UK, then go and do the FAA PPL. As soon as the FAA PPL is in their hand (2 minutes after the flight test) they then arrange to have a test the next day with a JAA examiner.

Although a school needs to be CAA approved to train for the JAA PPL, a CAA examiner DOES NOT need to examine from an approved school to carry out LICENSE CONVERSIONS.....

[I Love Flying]

Maybe not relevant to the OP's situation, but can I just mention that I started my PPL on 1st week October and passed my skills test before the end of April, a shade under six months. This was in the South East of England.

I guess what I am trying to say that it IS certainly possible to complete a PPL during the winter months in the UK, but you do need to have a flexible job and flexible approach to your flying. I booked several lessons per week, knowing that some would invariably be cancelled due to weather or technical issues.

[IO540]

What some clever folks do is do the JAA ground exams in the UK, then go and do the FAA PPL. As soon as the FAA PPL is in their hand (2 minutes after the flight test) they then arrange to have a test the next day with a JAA examiner.

Although a school needs to be CAA approved to train for the JAA PPL, a CAA examiner DOES NOT need to examine from an approved school to carry out LICENSE CONVERSIONS.....

That is really clever. But doesn't it require the FAA PPL holder to have 100hrs TT?

[mad_jock]

IO PIK and INV have the mico climates for it.

When i was instructing i had 6 days none flyable and did over 900 hours a year in inverness. In fact i did one PPl in two weeks, he was quite good and arrived with the exams done

[abgd]

Hmm... Unfortunately, time and a flexible job are exactly what I don't have, otherwise the idea of getting it done at a leisurely pace in good weather would appeal greatly. I just need to get it sorted quickly and safely...

[mad_jock]

It wouldn't be an issue with the schools i worked at.

And training would be an hour general handling and then a nav ex. If every thing was hunky dorry then a test. If not training as required.

But if the punter just wanted to go straight for the test they would be allowed to do it. But I think they would proberly come unstuck with the PFL,nav and stalling exercises.

[abgd]

Well, I'm going to be away for a week or two then I shall make a decision. I'll let the list know how things go.

Thank you all for your suggestions - sometimes the answers a person needs aren't actually the ones to the question you initially asked. At the moment I'm seriously thinking of either France or Scotland.

[The_Pilot]

Good Afternoon fellow pilots,
I just come here with one purpose, warning you all for the tricks about EASA also known as OBA. If you dont want to see your money going down the drain, and have instructors and staff that dont care about you as a student and as a client dont enroll in that school.

Just arrived from a brief stay in that school and I cant say 1 positive thing about the school, didnt finish my rating, even after delaying my stay more than supposed to, in the end payed more money than agreed with all the "extras", their website is lie after lie (like their "imaginary" fleet, not corresponding with whats advertise in the website).

Some students left the school even before starting the course, cause they realized that would be a waste of money, and you guys should do the same.

Bottom line, they dont deserve 1$ of your money. Its the cheapest JAA school in Florida but remember something, you get what you pay! and by the end it turns out not to be that cheap after all.

Just one last thing, careful cause some users in this forum that talk about wonderful things in EASA are actually staff from the school, trying to advertise the school giving it a nice image. There was a reason for the school to change from OBA to EASA, a lawsuit! and believe me they didnt change a bit, only the name changed.

I suggest considering OFT or EFT as your training provider.

Wish you all the best and safe landings!

[AdamFrisch]

Come to California. Better, more consistent weather than Florida, great schools and great flying.

[XLC]

Hi, just one comment on Englishal's ideas of JAA schools in the US. I attended the course (and passed) at EFT in March 2010.
Courses, instructors and examiner were all from the UK, 100% so. I had quite a positive experience at EFT, and thus recommend it. (review (http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/409924-trained-florida-feb-march-2010-a.html))
Every choice has pros and cons. One of the good points to attend an overseas school is that you can really focus on the course.