View Full Version : Light aircraft down near Sibson


TrafficPilot
2nd Sep 2011, 14:19
Getting reports here of the A1 closed at Wansford due to a light aircraft accident close to Sibson Airfield.

Hope all are ok.

Adam

UPDATE: A1 closed in both directions due to the aircraft hitting power lines beside the A1:bored:



Ds3
2nd Sep 2011, 14:37
Oh shit, I'm learning at Sibson and am there tomorrow :( Sincerely hope there are no injuries but that doesn't sound good....

Rod1
2nd Sep 2011, 14:54
BBC News - Plane crashes in Sibson Airfield near A1 in Cambridgeshire (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-14767279)

WillDAQ
2nd Sep 2011, 15:20
Easily done, the under run area for 24 is a noticeable slope up onto the flat of the main runway, which combined with the comedy-short nature of the marked length makes it all to easy to drop below the 300+ft you need to safely clear the pylons.

Hope all survive unscathed, truth be known 24/06 makes Sibson a tricky little airfield.

cwatters
2nd Sep 2011, 15:24
Peterborough Sibson Airfield Information (http://www.nsof.co.uk/content/sibson-airfield-information)

Warns of power lines on approach to runway 24 but I've no idea if these are the same ones.

Aside: The energy companies are looking at sites for wind farms in this general area, in particular where power lines are close to main roads such as the A14 or A1. Have heard a microlight club has lost it's field recently in this area.

WillDAQ
2nd Sep 2011, 15:31
Warns of power lines on approach to runway 24 but I've no idea if these are the same ones.

Almost certainly, the lines cross the A1 directly along the centreline of 24, they are a very prominent feature of the approach and when the website says "The airfield is PPR as it is essential that visitors are briefed to the airfield characteristics and activity. " the first thing that will be highlighted are the power lines. (The trees off the end of 24 and the lack of overhead due to meat bombing will also get a mention)

Ds3
2nd Sep 2011, 15:38
Yes they are the same ones. The approach is tricky and I'm really enjoying the challenge of learning on it, other airfields should seem easy in comparison.

300ft is really the minimum over the pylons, I tend to stay more around 400ft but it does make for a steep descent. That, along with the upwards slope at the start of the runway and the trees at the other end make it interest.

Not looking good, it's being reported now that the pilot is feared dead :(

Cambridge News | Latest News Headlines From Cambridge City & Cambridgeshire | National News By Cambridge News | Light aircraft crash closes part of A1 (http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Home/A-light-aircraft-collision-has-closed-part-of-the-A1-02092011.htm)

A pilot is feared dead after a light aircraft clipped overhead power lines and crashed to the ground as shocked diners watched in horror.
The aircraft lost a wing before it nose-dived in a hedge near Sibson Airfield, in Peterborough, Cambs, at 2.15 pm today(Fri).

The Fenland Flyer
2nd Sep 2011, 16:13
Very sad news, I'm just hoping it's no one I know.

A very nasty comment at the end of this report: Cambridge News | Latest News Headlines From Cambridge City & Cambridgeshire | National News By Cambridge News | Light aircraft crash closes part of A1 (http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Home/A-light-aircraft-collision-has-closed-part-of-the-A1-02092011.htm)

AIMINGHIGH123
2nd Sep 2011, 17:18
That is sad news but it was only a matter of time. I flew into there when I was doing my hour building around the Uk, I remember thinking to myself I would not want a low sun in the sky on final approach.

Spunky Monkey
2nd Sep 2011, 17:25
A very sad incident and as you say Fenland Flyer a disgusting comment below.
Keeping 100ft over the cables would give a nice stable decent. It could be intimidating to the new visitor. But a great little airfield to operate into.
Where I learnt to fly many many years ago.

Sorry why is it only a matter of time?
The cables are about a mile away from the field and on lower ground.

FlyingPuppet
2nd Sep 2011, 17:51
This is now being reported as the only occupant the pilot was killed. Sad news indeed.

BBC News - Plane crash kills pilot near Sibson Airfield (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-14767279)

India Four Two
2nd Sep 2011, 17:55
The cables are about a mile away from the fieldThe cables cross the A1 about 0.4 miles from the threshold. Assuming the tower is about 100' high, that gives an approach slope of slightly under 3°.

I can see how someone used to making low-angle approaches could get caught out.

cotterpot
2nd Sep 2011, 18:14
The cables are about 0.7 from the actual threshold, where the two runways cross. You don't land until after the numbers on 24. And you should be off the ground by the tower if taking off on 06
Sibson is a fine field, particularly for training. After that you can get into and out of most places.

3 deg is CAT stuff not GA.

smarthawke
2nd Sep 2011, 19:17
Having previously flown (and previously worked) at Sibbo for many years it isn't quite as bad as some might make out.

To the best of my knowledge it's the first time anyone has hit the powerlines there - a normal approach keeps you well clear of them.

Ds3
2nd Sep 2011, 19:25
Agreed, it wasn't a matter of time at all.

Whilst being a slightly tricky approach it's still perfectly safe and managable. Anyone that knows Sibson is aware of the pylons and anyone visiting should have had full instructions when requesting PPR.

It'll be interesting to know if this was simply pilot error, or if some form of mechanical failure preventing him maintaining proper altitude....

Edit: Just measured up on google maps, I reckon the power lines are approx 0.3m from the start of the runway, and about 0.5m from the number 24 where you aim to touch down.

tmmorris
2nd Sep 2011, 19:25
I've tried to comment on that disgusting Cambridge news page - but my comment hasn't appeared. Perhaps it has to be moderated first - if so, how the hell did that one get through?

Tim

austerwobbler
2nd Sep 2011, 19:37
I have "and a few others have tried as well" to post a reply to that comment but nothing seems to appear ! He probably had someone else post that comment for him as he doesn't sound like the shiniest spanner in the tool box

Austerwobbler

FREDAcheck
2nd Sep 2011, 19:43
I've tried to comment on that disgusting Cambridge news page - but my comment hasn't appeared. Perhaps it has to be moderated first - if so, how the hell did that one get through?
If it's moderated, perhaps they've all gone home. Or they've sensed a strong reaction to the first post and decided not to put any more on until the boss has seen it.

znww5
2nd Sep 2011, 20:14
I tried to comment too but it is yet to appear - they're all off for the weekend no doubt.

Beech_Boy
2nd Sep 2011, 20:21
Does anyone know the aircraft type/reg? Very sad

funfly
2nd Sep 2011, 21:52
Re: comments on press pages.
You can't worry too much about this, you will always get the kid sitting in his bedroom knowing that he can post stupidity without detection.
I do wonder, however, why both the press and the BBC put a place for replies at the end of news items, they are always littered with rubbish like this.

FREDAcheck
2nd Sep 2011, 22:09
I do wonder, however, why both the press and the BBC put a place for replies at the end of news items, they are always littered with rubbish like this.
Because people like the sight of their own words, and apparently other people like to read them (not that this applies to us, you understand).

Even a fairly heavy-weight site like www.economist.com (http://www.economist.com) enables comments to articles, and among high-brow and erudite posts is a fair sprinkling of rather immoderate ones.

Avitor
2nd Sep 2011, 22:57
When the air ambulance, at 4pm landed and refueled at Connington, then took off and headed east, I had a feeling of dread. Had he deposited a casualty at Adenbrooks he would have refueled at Cambridge.

flybydayuk
3rd Sep 2011, 00:59
I too have requested that the Cambridge News modders get the pathetic and hurtful comment removed via my T w i t t e r stream. 2am and it's still there. See you at Sywell in the morning.

SFCC
3rd Sep 2011, 06:07
Looking at the pic on BBC, it was a Bolkow Junior.

Avitor
3rd Sep 2011, 08:35
Local paper says Belgian registered.


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Pilot killed as plane hits electricity cable near Peterborough

http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/webimage/metp_02_09_11dl003_1_3024336%21image/880522364.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_595/880522364.jpg The wreckage of the plane which crashed just short of Sibson Airfield, near Wansford on Friday. Picture: David Lowndes/Peterborough ET

By Adam Uren (adam.uren@<hidden>)
Published on Saturday 3 September 2011 09:00

Saturday, 9am: A pilot was killed after the light aircraft he was flying crashed after clipping a power line near Peterborough yesterday (2 September).
The red and white aircraft clipped a cable between two electricity pylons over the A1 before crashing to the ground just short of Sibson Airfield as it came into land at around 2.15pm on Friday.
Cambridgeshire police have confirmed that the pilot, who was flying alone, was killed in the crash but could not reveal more information as he has not yet been formally identified.
The plane was registered to an airport in Belgium.
There were chaotic scenes on the roads after the A1 was closed as a precaution between the A47 at Wansford and the A605 at Haddon, while National Grid engineers repaired the damage cable.
The stretch of road is expected to remain closed until midday today.
The plane landed just 200 yards from the Sibson Inn Hotel on the A1 with business manager Mark Prime informed of the crash by a guest.
He said: “We were alerted by a diner who saw the crash. The hotel manager called the airfield who had already callhttp://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/local/pilot_killed_as_plane_hits_electricity_cable_near_peterborough_1_3024349

manxcat
3rd Sep 2011, 10:05
Very sad news. I flew from Sibson for a few years without incident. The obstacles at either end of 06/24 need consideration as does the shorter 15/33 but it is possible to get in and out of both safely using the right technique. The twins used for parachute drops prove that. To correct a small point about the Air Ambulance heading East being a bad sign is not true. It could have been inbound to Peterborough City Hospital but it's immaterial. Sibson is a great airfield and club with good instructors. As I said a sad loss for the pilot's family. RIP.

Jan Olieslagers
3rd Sep 2011, 10:54
Local paper says Belgian registered.And according to ASN Aircraft accident 02-SEP-2011 Blkow BO 208 C Junior D-EGFU (http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=138343) (which has better credibility for me than any newspaper) it was D-EGFU.

But actually the paper says The plane was registered to an airport in Belgium. which is somewhat confusing. But the plane's operator CNE Air is based at Seppe EHSE, they show the machine on their own website.

what next
3rd Sep 2011, 11:04
...which is somewhat confusing.

Registered in Germany, but operated and based in Belguim it should read. Look here: CNE AIR | Lucht Reclame (http://www.cne-air.nl/index.php?id=5)

Jan Olieslagers
3rd Sep 2011, 11:06
What I mainly found confusing is that aircraft are registered to operators, not to aerodromes. On top of that, CNE Air is Dutch.

BolkowJunior
3rd Sep 2011, 19:30
- sad loss of pilot and aircraft

Sir George Cayley
3rd Sep 2011, 19:55
I've never been to Sibson but as I understand it there are pylons and high tension wires on the approach. Are these marked in anyway? I've seen large round orange spheres spread along the top cable as an alert in other parts of the world.

On the continent I've also seen pylons painted in alternate red and white bands. Yes hindsight I know, but would these help prevent a similar incident in the future?

Lastly, the picture reminds me of a similar shot of a fatal crash involving a Jodel a while ago. Is it worth exploring a method of protection as per convertibles?

Frank Leopald

smarthawke
3rd Sep 2011, 20:30
There were no markers on the pylons or wires as far as I know. There certainly weren't when I was there.

The authorities were once asked if they would put orange markers on the earth wire that spans from pylon tip to pylon tip but there answer was that as no one had hit the wire, there wasn't a need.

Before the runway was realigned, one pylon was pretty much in line with the runway centre line.

As I said before, the pylons were not much of a problem in reality - just don't drag it in on a low final approach.

15/33 is 551m IIRC with clear approaches/climb outs so no problem at all. 07 (06) was good fun with the trees on the appoach but again they were more pyscological than a real problem.

Sibbo has always been quite a busy place, movement-wise and this sad occurrence is, as I said, the first of its sort which proves it isn't a dangerous or difficult place to operate from. We operated Cessnas and a Seneca there and the parachute centre has had some relatively big stuff based there including the Skyvan and Let 410.

Ds3
4th Sep 2011, 10:25
There were no markings on the wires, and yes it was the earth wire he hit. It would be a good idea to have markings on the wires, you can never be too cautious with things like that, however everyone flying in to Sibson should be aware of their presence as they will either be based there, or have obtained PPR with a warning about the various obstacles. He had phoned in prior to leaving to let them know he may be arriving and had been duly warned about the pylons, so it was really just a gross error of judgement and he paid the ultimate price...

Sibson is back up and running anyway, the mood is obviously a bit sombre but everyone is getting on with things. I've yet to land on anything other than 24 so have some interesting challenges to come, but I think the pylons are definitely the highest risk. It gets very busy there over the weekend and yes they operate a couple of Cessna 'caravans' amongst other things which are large, turbine powered single props.

talkpedlar
6th Sep 2011, 07:55
Suppose one shouldn't be surprised in this new European world.. D-reg, Belgium, Netherlands etc... pilot named as Roger Greenaway (52) from Stratford upon Avon and flight was reportedly from Wellesbourne. RIP Roger.

Fullvous
11th Sep 2011, 13:30
His name was Clive Richard Greenaway,he was a experienced pilot who had purchased the aircraft from belguim and he was a very close friend and will be missed by many, very sad ! RIP Clive

India Four Two
16th Sep 2012, 02:16
AAIB report here:
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Bolkow%20208C%20Junior%20D-EGFU%2009-12.pdf