View Full Version : Garmin 430
Miroku
1st Sep 2011, 09:15
My flying club has got an aircraft which is fitted with a Garmin 430. I've downloaded the manual, which is fine as far as it goes, but I would like to download the simulator.
The Garmin website indicates that this is not suitable for Vista. Does anyone know of any other site that could help me get to grips with this unit?
The Grim EPR
1st Sep 2011, 10:15
I could be wrong, but I'm sure I've seen them running under Vista. I would try downloading it and run it anyway and see how you get on.
This link doesn't mention any incompatibility issues.
Free 400/500 Series & GNS 480 Simulators (http://www8.garmin.com/include/SimulatorPopup.html)
If you do have problems, I believe that you can set Vista to run an application 'as' XP.
Miroku
1st Sep 2011, 11:58
I've tried to download the programme, everything seems to be going OK but at the end I get the message that the programme can't be found.
I'm not at all keen on trying to run XP.
The Garmin site itself has some useful tutorials but they stop after the Garmin 430 overview and Navcom functions. VFR GPS functions cannot be read.
Any other ideas please?
I have this trouble also.
I have a 430 fitted in my aeroplane and would like to be able to play with the trainer.
I run Windows 7 64bit, and it appears to be impossible to get the software to run on my OS. If you find a solution, or an alternative trainer, I'd be very grateful for any pointers.
Sorry this is a totally useless comment but this is why WinXP is the best OS.
Stuff mostly just works.
There is no point in Vista or win7.
You crack me up, Peter. :)
You're right though, that really was a useless (and ilinformed) comment.
Windows 7 is the first OS produced by Microsoft to even hold a candle to Mac OS - and IMHO has outdone it (which is saying something). XP, however, is fairly universally (outside of your house) accepted to be one of the worst, most buggy, unstable and least secure operating systems of all time.
I have a feeling the upgrade path of global enterprise won't grind to a halt because the Garmin Trainer will only run on XP :)
Sir George Cayley
1st Sep 2011, 19:47
Must have receiver is now the Garmin 430W.
SGC
It's actually the 430W I have. Are you saying there is a different trainer for that?
SDB73 - an O/S is just there to run apps. If the apps I need for my work all run under Windows for Workgroups 3.11 (and for some years that was true; they wouldn't run under NT) then so be it.
I have a pile of productive (and expensive) software which doesn't run under win7. My GF has a win7 PC which works with the bog standard stuff and which gives trouble in every other department.
I also have 2 Thinkpad laptops, 2 PCs at home, 2 PCs at work, all running XP and all of them work and do what they are supposed to do. They run a huge range of apps, some common, some highly specialised, dating from early 1990s all the way through present time.
Unix is more reliable, etc, and we have two machines at work running FreeBSD whose uptime is probably years, but they only run one or two apps.
I don't disagree with your view on win7 in an academic sense but if you measure it according to productivity, and lack of driver hassles with what M$ call "legacy" hardware, then win7 scores pretty badly right now unless you are prepared to throw away all your hardware, and buy all your software all-new and with a great deal of due diligence.
Perhaps the Garmin sim would run under XP under VMware? It might be worth it. OTOH it is not hard to work out a GNS430. The really hard thing is digging out an instructor who knows how they work. When I got my TB20 in 2002, I never found an instructor who even knew how an HSI worked. Maybe Miroku should find an experienced pilot and buy him a beer :)
Hey Peter,
An O/S actually isn't there to run apps. An O/S is there for Apps to use. An important distinction when saying that WinXP is great because it runs the Garmin Trainer, and Win7 is rubbish because it doesn't! :) As SoCal correctly indicated - it's the app's fault, not the O/S.
Would you say that non-certified aircraft are better, because they can run non-standardised avionics? If the avionics are not certified for your aircraft does that make your aircraft at fault or the avionics (by way of it not being certified - like software not being written correctly to correct standards)?
I think it sounds like a fair statement from you would be "For my personal purposes, WinXP seems to be better", but a blanket "WinXP is the best OS and there is no point to Vista / Win7" is what I was suggesting was very misguided.
My company has systems running pretty much every current operating system there is, from Linux, to MacOS, to Win7 and a whole host of stuff in between, including one or two simple operating systems we've built from scratch. These are installed on everything from embedded devices, to laptops, to tablets, to pcs, to clustered servers, etc, etc. And being run around the world, sometimes in a data center in London, and sometimes on the side of an Argentinian mountain, or a minus 30 degree Swedish forest. We set up huge WAN networks in remote locations, with no local power or comms, within 2 days, and we've been doing this for over 10 years - originally using WinXP.
I can give you a cast iron guarantee, that your personal opinion of WinXP vs Win 7 is false - except in extremely isolated cases, yours (aparently) being one of them. It's all academic anyway. If WinXP does what you need and you're happy with it, go for your life. I think it was just the (even you must admit) overly opinionated statement that your obsolete OS that you happen to use is "the best" and everyone has just got it wrong. :)
I have been writing software, and developing microcontrollers, since the earliest days of microprocessors, and I spend way too much of my time fixing IT issues, so we will have to agree to disagree on this one :)
I've just done a quick count and have about 130 apps on my winXP PC, and they all work. I know for a fact that a load of them, including the most valuable ones, won't run under win7.
I even have an old LOOX PDA running the crappiest and buggiest O/S ever made (WM), so why do I keep it? Because it runs TomTom6, which a good friend gave me for my 50th birthday, which does all I need for car nav, and it runs it well.
In the meantime, the OP has a bit of software which runs under XP but not under win7, so what solution do you propose? I don't think sending a link to this thread to Garmin, with a note to improve their software quality, is going to be productive.
n5296s
1st Sep 2011, 23:11
Off topic of course but I can't resist. I'm 100% with IO540. Windows 7 is a complete waste of time. XP may be buggy and all the rest but from a practical pov, it does everything I need. Since I installed W7 I've had nothing but grief, all sorts of "helpful" "features" that just get in the way, the security stuff most of all. I miss my XP laptop, that's for sure.
I think XP is now free from the MS website, so if you have stuff that absolutely needs it, the thing to do is run VMWare or Virtualbox and then run XP inside that, for those apps.
I recently shifted to a 100% virtual world, with W7 (for the things that need it) running in Virtualbox on Ubuntu Linux, and it works very nicely. Sadly there is still one thing that needs a real Windows system: the Jeppesen update for my Garmin 430/530! For some reason the little USB thingy they provide will not run in the virtual environment.
FlyingStone
2nd Sep 2011, 05:18
The problem with Windows XP is that they can't use more than 3GB memory, unless you install x64 version, which proved to be very unstable - it isn't a surprise most people didn't bother to switch from 32-bit version. The other problem is that it wasn't designed to use more than 2 CPUs (be it cores or standalone processors), it doesn't use memory as HDD cache, while Vista and Win7 use almost the same design as Unix/Linux, which has proven very effective over the years. Agreed, WinXP is a good OS, but not if you want to fully use today's hardware.
Back on topic: If one reads the Garmin 430 manual thourougly, I think you don't need the simulator at all. Surely, it's an advantage, but if you can't find PC with Windows XP to run it, all you really need to do is use as much functions of 430 as you can on two or three flights or let your buddy fly while you "play" with the GPS and you'll learn at least the basic functions very fast.
I would simply say that if an app accesses undocumented low level routines then that app can equally expect to break as soon as fixes or a new releases of the OS emerge.
I doubt that was the problem with XP apps not running under win7. Windoze apps stopped accessing hardware directly a decade ago or more.
From what I have seen, the issues are (e.g.) the long standing but dodgy practice of storing data/config files under the Program Files directory, and other places. Win 7's improved security stops stuff like that.
it doesn't use memory as HDD cache
XP does cache heavily. Try starting a say 100MB app twice. The 2nd time is much faster. NT4 onwards.
it wasn't designed to use more than 2 CPUs
Plenty of apps do use 4 cores under XP, but it has to be coded in the app, obviously. Despite massive research over decades, nobody has yet found a way to efficiently use multiple processors to run a single-threaded app. Maybe the OS itself doesn't but that hardly matters.
not if you want to fully use today's hardware.
Which "today's hardware" requires win7? Maybe something obscure comes only with win7 drivers. When I bought the win7 PC for my GF, I asked for XP and the firm said a blue ray drive won't work under XP, so reluctantly I went for the win7 option. This proved to be a total con, since I am happily writing BD DVDs on every XP machine I have, even using a USB writer for $150.
Uisng > 3GB RAM is nice; I agree, for high end apps like video editing. But Sony Vegas runs just fine, for editing my absolutely gripping 2 hour VMC on top flight movies :) :)
The problem is that any "old" PC user ends up finding so much stuff stops working under 7 so a lot of stuff one has paid for, and which works, has to be chucked out, and most of it is unsupported so you don't get updates, you lose the familiar functionality and have to splash out more £££ to replace it. OK in a corporate scenario, sure.
XP is buggy and an XP machine rarely makes a month without a reboot, especially if you use bodgy apps like PC/Anywhere, but this is a complete non-issue relative to the productivity and the ability to run a huge range of "legacy" (don't I hate that word) software.
The problem is that any "old" PC user ends up finding so much stuff stops working under 7 so a lot of stuff one has paid for, and which works, has to be chucked out, and most of it is unsupported so you don't get updates, you lose the familiar functionality and have to splash out more £££ to replace it. OK in a corporate scenario, sure.
If you'd said THAT originally, I would have completely agreed. But it's a huge leap to say ".. and therefore there is no point to Win 7", or ".. which proves that WinXP is the best OS".
What you're basically saying is that WinXP is the best OS if :
- you have a lot of obscure, obsolete software which is aimed at such a minute market that it really isn't worth the developers a) writing the software properly in the first place, OR (not "and") b) supporting it with updates for modern, supported operating systems.
- you don't want to spend any money upgrading
- you are the kind of person that "gets used to" features and functions and would rather not upgrade and have to learn a whole load more
- you're not too worried about stability or security
- you don't want to use lots of RAM
Of course, then I completely agree with you. But as soon as you don't fall into any of the above categories, WinXP is not longer the best OS for you, and in fact there is a USE for Win7.
-
For the record, I use Win 7 x64 exclusively on my two desktop PCs, and one laptop, and the Garmin Trainer is the first application I have found not to work. Including apps I've written myself ten years ago, and everything from business software, to utilities, to development tools, and even the odd game! You must be horendously unlucky that "loads" of your software doesn't work on Win7 - I'd be interested in that list, for personal morbid interest, as I'm pretty sure you'll either a) be able to get it working, or b) find a vastly superior alternative in most - if not all - cases.
A small disclaimer - I am by no mean a MS supporter. I have had a downer on pretty much every OS they've produced in the last 15 years. So there's nobody more shocked than I that Win 7 is actually a stunning OS. But some people a naturally averse to change, and this can caused clouded vision and a head-in-sand outlook.
Miroku
2nd Sep 2011, 08:49
CAN WE GET BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION PLEASE?
What is the best way of getting to grips with the Garmin 430, be it the X,Y or Z version?
Manker
2nd Sep 2011, 09:00
Try this thread: Big-Screen IFR: Garmin's GNS 530 (http://www.avweb.com/news/reviews/182453-1.html)
It's for the 530 but the basics are the same.
For the record, I use Win 7 x64 exclusively on my two desktop PCs, and one laptop, and the Garmin Trainer is the first application I have found not to work.
Try it in Win 7s Xp mode, I find it a good way to run 16 and 32Bit programs that otherwise wouldn't run. Saves paying a fortune for the code to be changed.
Try it in Win 7s Xp mode
Yeah, that was my thought, but sadly it's the first app I've found that doesn't work for.
baldwinm
2nd Sep 2011, 09:10
The Garmin 400-500W series trainer works absolutely fine for me on Windows 7 Professional 64 bit Service Pack 1. Doesn't need XP mode - if you look at the system requirements its says it runs on XP on later. Once installed you can select the 430 simulation.
If you look at the (old) 430 simulator system requirements it specifically states it will not run on Windows 7.
RTFM - as they say.
ReverseFlight
2nd Sep 2011, 09:13
Miroku, I'm not a techie, so I won't give you useless info. I too have the Garmin 400 series trainer and find I can run it on either Windows 2000 or XP. If you can find or borrow an old 2000, you should be fine.
I'm not a techie, so I don't buy my own PCs. Every time someone trashes theirs, I take it up. My OSs range from Win 2000, XP to Vista and I am waiting for Win7 to go obsolete. If I can't run a program, I'll feed it to different OSs until one accepts it ... a bit like keeping a few pets at home to keep MS troubles at bay.
Bushfiva
2nd Sep 2011, 09:30
If it's any help, and if you're referring to the Garmin 400W/500W trainer, it seems to install and function OK on 64-bit Windows 7, therefore I assume it would work just as well on 32-bit Windows 7. Extrapolating, it should work fine on Vista. Have you tried it? If so, what was the error?
I haven't tried that actually - I think I've been trying the 430. I'll give it a go, thanks for the tip.
Miroku
3rd Sep 2011, 09:47
Very many thanks for the info. The Garmin 400W/500W downloaded fine.
Whilst visiting the LAA rally at Sywell yesterday, a helpful chap on the Transair stand made an obvious suggestion which was to look on U tube. I hadn't thought of that and there is quite a lot of useful info.
172510
4th Nov 2012, 07:03
Just for mac users: CrossOver seems to be able to run Garmin 430 to a certain extent.
The display is tainted by a yellow patch I cannot get rid of, but generally it seems up to now to work.
maduro
1st Oct 2014, 06:07
Guys,
I was able to get the GNS 430 simulator to run on Windows 7 by going to the properties on the icon and in the compatibility tab check to run the program in compatibility mode with Windows XP (service pack 3) and check Run this program as an administrator.
Several functions of Garmin 430W differ from vanilla 430 and so I'd imagine you need a dedicated 430W trainer.
We have a 430Wi a/c but I've never seen/used a 430W trainer.
Cusco.
ChickenHouse
2nd Oct 2014, 12:28
What a mess of opinions ... the Garmin GNS430 training app does run on Win7, BUT - you need the compatibility mode working and that is part of the Win7 Professional, the small&home versions don't support the necessary mode. It even runs under Vista with the compatibility mode switched on for the program, but I did not check Win8 yet.