Flight Planning Software

[Yellow Son]

Jeppesen FliteStar VFR is on offer at the moment for under £90. I want it, of course (the New Toy syndrome); but do I need it?

I've read all the publicity material but still don't fully understand what it does for me. My background is as an ex-RAF QFI who has taught pilot nav, so I am certainly at home with manual methods, but I'm always happy to have life made a little easier and perhaps quicker. What's the opinion of people who have experience of using this software - or indeed cheaper alternatives such as Navbox?

[Dark Helmet]

Have you tried Sky Demon Light? It's free and available here:

SkyDemon Light (http://www.skydemonlight.com/)

It is endorsed by NATS and I think it is a very good VFR planning tool. Notams are automatically displayed once you have set your route (even if it starts and ends at the same place). You can print out a Plog and save the route as a GPX file.

[maehhh]

Hi JJ, you are right there is a lack of utile reports about flitestar here on pprune and apparently in the whole www!

I plan most of my flights (VFR) with Flitestar... I took me some time but now I can say I do like it.

You tell Flitestar your preferences (cruise setting, altitude, and so on...) and your aircraft data (typing all the numbers out of your manual is really a stupid work, your lucky if your aircraft model already exists...).

Then Flitestar does basicly everthing for you e.g weather briefing, W&B, flightplan, fuel calculation, cost report and of course your flightlog. If you have Jeppview it does integrate the approach plates too (I don't).

Flitestar plans the Route with a RouteWizzard via VORs, Airfields, NDBs or whatever you wish. A second way is to plan your route manually by clicking waypoints on the map.

The integrated JeppWX is quite handy and shown on the map (if you want to).

The Software is certainly pretty capable but its design is sometimes complicated or at least not very intuitive... I needed the manual a lot.

On the other hand I have never tried cheaper alternatives so I unfortunately cannot compare them to Flitestar!

cheers
maehhh

[Yellow Son]

Thanks for the link to SkyDemon - just looked at the free version as you recommend, and it does seem pretty good value for money!

[Yellow Son]

Thanks for the feedback on Flitestar, maehhh - you are the first real user I have made contact with, and I am grateful for your opinion.

Dark Helmet has pointed me (above) to a free, web-based version of Sky Demon, which I have looked at briefly and which seems quite interesting, especially for a free product (obviously, they hope you will pay to upgrade to the full version, which is in the same price bracket as Flitestar).

If you have time and are interested, do take a look at it, perhaps it will do all you need. It's certainly simple, and apparently doesn't need annual updates.

[140KIAS]

I used to use Flitestar but I find Skydemon is way better and much more comprehensive - ie Weather, NOTAMs.

Try the free download or Skydemon Lite before deciding.

[Pace]

For more serious IFR flightplanning this site is excellent

RocketRoute | Flight Planning Centre | Intelligent Routing (http://www.rocketroute.com/)

[Yellow Son]

Thanks to 140KIAS (is that cruising speed or rotate speed?) for comments on SkyDemon. Are you using the full (paid for) version? At first sight, the 'Lite' freebie is pretty good as it stands.

Thanks, Pace. Rocket Route is yet another candidate for my 'can't make my mind up' list! I have had a first look at the website and it does seem to be a quality product.

What we need is for 'Which' to do a report on Flight Planning software and choose some Best Buys (mind you, given that they keep recommending Humax for reliability, I'm not sure I'd take their advice!).

[IO540]

You need to first ask yourself where you want to fly.

If you want to fly VFR all over Europe, as I did 2002-2005 (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/index.html), then goode olde Navbox Pro is the best option, despite it being old and clunky. It has good accurate coverage, and nice things like contact details for airports, on just a click on the airport.

PocketFMS is another option which I need to get around trying, but my VFR flight planning requirement has gone way down since I got the IR in 2006 and did all foreign trips under IFR (other than trivia like Le Touquet).

FliteStar is a program I use for IFR, for plotting out IFR enroute charts (described here (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/valencia/index.html)) but I can't recommend it for VFR. It is no better than anything else in terms of chart quality unless you buy the Raster Charts add-on CD (which is an electronic version of the Jepp "VFR/GPS" printed charts) but you can only view the chart on the PC and print off one screen at a time; there is no way to print a series of them to cover a planned route (AFAIK) like one can do so effortlessly from the built-in (IFR, mostly) mapdata.

The weather accessible in FS is all accessible for free on the internet.

If you fly mostly just UK, then Skydemon is a nice product.

None of the above options (except possibly FS with the RC add-on) do away with the need to buy the printed charts for MSA and CAS route planning.

[Yellow Son]

What a very comprehensive contribution from IO540 (Mr Lycoming?). Thanks a lot.

Your last paragraph first - "None of the above options . . . do away with the need to buy the printed charts . . ." - too right, though not all the advertising material for software emphasises this basic airmanship point strongly.

My foreign flying was done when the Queen was paying, so now that I'm an OAP most of my destinations are likely to be in the UK. That being so, I'm going to take your suggestion and try out SkyDemon Lite for a while to see how it goes.

Speaking of OAPs, is your age quoted here correct? If so, kudos - are you also bold, by any chance?

[Rod1]

I moved from Navbox to PocketFMS. The mapping is very very good for both the UK and Europe.

Rod1

[thing]

I use SkyDemon Lite at home, if you download the F214's from the Met Office before you set off for the airfield you can stick the winds in as well. Mind you we have the full fat version of SkyDemon at the club.

[PompeyPaul]

I love SkyDemon.

A bacon & blue cheese panini in the cafe, whilst I plot the flight. Then into the the club house to finally print it all off.

Then off.

Awesome stuff.

[Yellow Son]

My thanks to everyone who has contributed answers to my original query. I draw three conclusions:
1. There are several adequate software packages out there, and everyone seems happy with whichever one they have settled on. Although it's clearly 'horses for courses', none seems outstandingly better, or worse, than any other. Encouragingly, not one of the best-known packages has been criticised as being poor.
2. Of them all, SkyDemon seems to have a smart marketing strategy by giving unrestricted use of a 'Lite' version absolutely free (others allow free trials of the full product, but for only a limited period).
3. My most important conclusion is what a great resource this forum is, and what a friendly bunch the contributors are. I don't see any other way I could have garnered the quantity, and quality, of views that have appeared here in just a few days.

[vfr-uk]

I'm another extremely satisfied skydemon user - so much so I quickly upgraded from the free web based to the full version.

I'd previously used navbox but that's now extremely dated, and development seems limited if not totally stalled. It did have a few nice feautures but not really worth buying it for those. Skydemon is being very actively developed and implements a lot of features based on user feedback. Things like airfield plates and info, and plog printing need a bit of improving but I'm sure it will come. But the situational awareness you get with notams and weather overlaid is what flight planning should be.

I tried rocketroute briefly, but didnt find it a very polished product overall - although google maps implementation and smartphone capabilities are very clever touches.

I'm mainly flying vfr in the UK, although skydemon has lots of Europe covered (no idea to what extent though)

[manix-cs]

If you fly mostly just UK, then Skydemon is a nice product.



The free web based version covers UK only, but the full strength version includes most of continental Europe, the USA and several African countries amongst others.

[Yellow Son]

Re the recent comments about SkyDemon - I've only just discovered that it is essentially a NATS-commissioned product. The lite/free version looks good enough for me for the time being (input of routes is simple, and instant access to NOTAMS etc is a great aid all on its own), and a bit of experience with that will tell me if I want to bother with Flight Planning software at all.
At the moment, I suspect the answer will be yes, so I aim to make a final decision just before Christmas . . . . !

[IO540]

You definitely want to use software for knocking up the plog etc.

The old circular slide rule is just daft.

These days, everything is on the internet: weather, notams, flight plan filing, contacting airports by fax/email, etc. So you need to carry a little laptop, with GPRS/3G connectivity, when travelling, anyway. Or an Ipad if you are a masochist ;)

I haven't done a manual flight plan since the day I got my PPL.

I don't think Skydemon was NATS commissioned originally. I vaguely recall reading they did a deal with NATS quite recently, on some cut-down version.

[Yellow Son]

Thanks IO540 - Your memory serves you well - I see now that the 'Lite' version was the product of a joint NATS/SkyDemon initiative. This link has the story - SkyDemon and NATS launch free pre-flight planning tool for GA safety | NATS (http://www.nats.co.uk/news/skydemon-and-nats-launch-free-pre-flight-planning-tool-for-ga-safety/)

SkyDemon Lite is the only package I have tried so far, and it seems to do nearly all the pre-flight work that I am likely to want for my (so far) unambitious plans for flying VFR around UK. The only thing missing is the ability to transfer the plan (or at least waypoints) to an SD card that can be inserted into the G1000 in the Club's C172. Garmin don't seem to understand the question when I put it to them! Anybody out there succeeded in doing it? (On reflection, this is so different from my original post that started this very productive thread that I think I'll float a new one).

[IO540]

AFAIK the only way to load an externally generated route into any IFR (panel mounted) GPS, and taking the common GA models only, is if you are using Jepp Flitestar, and then you use the Jepp Flight Plan Migrator program to convert a Flitestar "routepack" into some form which gets written to the Garmin flash card.

This works with a GNS430W, 530W, or the G1000, AFAIK.

So, no direct computer-GPS connection; it is done via the flash card. It's not exactly cheap, either, on top of the cost of Flitestar.

For a busy IFR pilot it may be worth doing because some IFR routings consist of 20-40 waypoints and entering them with the knobs takes for ever - even if your GPS supports named airways.

The reason for this restriction has never been made clear, but it appears to be concerned with the obvious difficulty of ensuring data integrity when it is being generated by some program running under Windoze or a similar bloated bug-ridden O/S. Whereas if you work it via the narrow flash card route, you merely need to demonstrate (to the FAA etc) that the software which parses the ex-Flitestar routepack file and writes to the flash card, has been developed to certain "software quality" requirements. It has taken best part of 20 years to get this far...

[manix-cs]

Re the recent comments about SkyDemon - I've only just discovered that it is essentially a NATS-commissioned product.


Hi John, it's not a NATS commissioned product at all. Skydemon has been available for about 18 months now (longer if you were a beta tester) to install on PC and mobile devices.

A few months ago a web based lite version was launched in conjunctions with NATS, at the same time as a full featured web based version was launched to the paying subscribers.

I've tried the lite version out and it is good, but nowhere near as good as the paid for version, you can download the full version and install it for a free months trial from the skydemon website.

[bubo]

I am using Navbox quickplan - not the nicest, but excellent for getting basic heading/time information once preliminery idea about routing was made on a paper map - no matter if VFR or IFR, just pick up the right map

[dypen]

Is there any overview table of the different flight plannere on the market for VFR flight in Europe?

What most people use today and who has the most complete tool for planning and en route VFR, feel free to IFR too ?

I'm thinking Air Navigation Pro, SkyDemon, PocketFMS, Rocket Route, FliteStar or any other similar software for planning home and along with software on ex iPad ...

I have used Air Navigation Pro / goVFR and FliteStar / FliteDeck for some time ago on Windows PC and iPad without being completely satisfied ...

[dublinpilot]

Just be aware if you are looking for PocketFMS on the iPad (or Android) the PocketFMS app is called "EasyVFR" in those stores.

It's also about to get a serious upgrade in the next few days including auto-route generation (for airspace and terrain avoidance), Geo-referenced charts and Vertical Profile View among other things.

dp

[stickandrudderman]

It's about time one of the mags did a review of all this software.
I've played with AirNav pro, Skydemon, Flitestar, Pocket FMS, and Rocketroute.
I think Skydemon is the most user-friendly by a long way but as for actual practical value it's a close call between Skydemon and Pocket FMS.

I like skydemon becaue it's just so easy to use and because of the ability to file a flight plan for international flights right there on the software.

I like PocketFMS because of it's ability to intelligently find an optimum route. You simply put in your departure and arrival points, tell it what you want to avoid and by what margin and it will calculate the route for you. (Thanks to DP for showing me that) and it's ability to create an exportable flight plan to an SD card.
If Skydemon could plan the optimum route and create an exportable file for use in an EFIS it would be a clear winner but for me PocketFMS just pips it at the moment.

[Ellemeet]

for readability Underway I prefer Skymap (www.sky-map.de). Also nobody shows the weather radar image better then they do

I have flightplan, also the online version, skydemon, rocketroute, eurofpl & navplan pro.

vfr I usually use skydemon or skymap, ifr it is a mix.

First is eurofpl .. it is the easiest and fastest
the other day I planned edny-ehrd and did not like what I saw from eurofpl, thus I looked at jeppesen & rocketroute. Ultimately it was Navplan pro which found the shortest route.

flitestar and internetflight planner have a nice weather feauture were you will find a rough estimate of the cloudbase and cloudtops enroute. This feature I like!